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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 07:55 PM
Original message
Vote for Romney on Tuesday
Michigan's open primary provides no incentive for Democrats to vote in their primary. The delegates will not count. THEY WILL NOT COUNT. Edwards and Obama are not on the ballot, and write ins for them will not count anyway.

So a good Democrat who wants a Democrat in the White House will vote in the (R) primary for the most unelectable Republican. All polls suggest that that person is Mitt Romney.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. even more than Alan Keyes?
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That would be wasted vote
since he has zero chance of actually getting the nomination.
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GigiMommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Funny!
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Bullshit. I'll vote for any Democrat on the ballot and that's what I intend to do
I don't need a goddamn incentive to vote for the party I signed onto. Regardless of the primary bullshit.
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. If they aren't on the ballot, vote UNCOMMITTED.
Read my sig.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. "Uncommitted" is a poltical blank check - a voting PROXY.
Edited on Wed Jan-09-08 08:57 AM by TahitiNut
It's not surprising that a corporation wants the shareholders to give the executives their proxy. I'll be damned if I'll do that. A vote for Kucinich, at least, expresses SOME preference for policies that are actually democratic.

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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Uh, I said if they "aren't on the ballot"
I know you like to get all hot on people around here, but relax. I am not telling anyone to not vote for Kucinich.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. If your candidate is on the ballot,
then by all means, vote for them. However, for those of us who support Edwards or Obama, we have no choice but to vote uncommitted so that Hillary will not get all of our delegates if they get seated.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. There's nothing that indicates Hillary wouldn't get "uncommitted."
There's nothing to indicate WHAT delegates would be seated. Stabenow? Granholm?

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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Hillary supporters aren't going to vote Uncommitted
they're going to vote for Hillary. I don't think there's a chance only some of our delegates will get seated. Either they all will, or none of them will.
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livvy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Delegates are determined by the results of the primary.
Uncommitted delegates are assigned according to the percentage of uncommitted votes. According to someone I was speaking to the other evening about the process, uncommitted delegates are then distributed among the candidates that were not on the ballot, Edwards and Obama. The distribution between them is determined by another statistic, which I can't remember...might be poll numbers???
Candidates who are on the ballot get the number of delegates that their votes indicate. All delegate's names are submitted to the candidates, and apparently they approve the list, or they can reject a delegate as well. According to the guy I was talking to, this goes for the uncommitted candidates as well.
I was under the impression that uncommitted delegates went to the convention uncommitted, but this does not seem to be so. All delegates are divided up according to the primary results, and approved by the candidates.
By the way, the person I was speaking to has been involved in politics for a long time, and has attended the nat. conventions as a delegate in the past.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. From what was said at our OCDP meeting Tuesday night,
I was under the impression that uncommitted delegates are just that -- uncommitted. It was stated that they can vote however they want at the convention. Of course, that's assuming they get to go to the convention at all.

Dave Woodward's opinion is that if there's a presumptive nominee going into the convention our delegates will be seated. If there isn't (e.g., if Hillary and Obama each have less than what is needed to get the nomination) and we're heading to a brokered convention, they won't. This was just his opinion. (Dave is the OCDP chair for those who may not know.)

I had really wanted to be a delegate, but I'm leaning toward not even trying now. What's the point if there's a reasonable chance that our delegation won't even go? They've now taken away our hotel rooms and if by some chance the delegation goes, they will be at the furthest possible hotel. I think I'll see more of the convention at home on TV. I'm better off waiting to run for delegate for a convention that we'll be seated at, even if it means going in 2012 with an incumbent and not a very exciting convention.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Which means that Michigan progressives have NO voice in selecting a nominee. None. Zip. Nada.
That means we have less say than people in Wyoming! Zip. Nada. In their in-fighting, they fucked the voters. (And people wonder why I'm an anti-partisan independent liberal! Sheesh!)
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. No, we don't
Not this time around. I'm plenty pissed about it, too.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I wish, out of sheer orneriness if nothing else, EVERYONE voted for Kucinich as a "message"
The very idea of "voting" for something called 'uncommitted' rankles the hell out of me. Sorry ... ***I'M*** the person who gets to make **MY** choices. That's what DEMOCRACY is all about, imho. We've seen how far afield "representation" gets us ... since what gets "represented" sure doesn't look like the COMMON WEAL to me.

Absolutely anything that impedes electoral integrity - one person's voice, accurately and honestly recorded and respected - is anathema to me.

(sigh) :rant:
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livvy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. That's what I thought, too. Now I'm not so sure.
He also insinuated that the people that were chosen for the delegates has a lot to do with the activity/involvement level of the person, or $$$...figures.
I was really interested, too, but I'm not so sure now, either. It would be very expensive, and if I wasn't truly a "free agent", what's the point?
I am so frustrated with this whole primary season so far, from the infighting, to the loss of a couple of really good candidates, that I felt I could trust to take over the job without screwing us little people.

Life in a little cabin in the woods is starting to sound more appealing every year... :rofl: Just me, a couple of decent neighbors a decent distance away, some good books, a little garden, and a whole lot of critters. I could become the bat shit crazy old lady of the north woods. At the rate things are going, I may become the bat shit crazy old lady of SCS, and people in highly populated areas are not as tolerant of a BS COL living right next door. :silly:
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adadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
6. But, a record will be
kept of what ballot you take and can be turned over to the political parties if they request.

MDP Voting Guide

5. Voters will be asked whether they want a Democratic or Republican ballot, and a
record will be made of which ballot they take.

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jimlup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. Romney might backfire!
Edited on Wed Jan-09-08 08:31 PM by jimlup
Vote for Ron Paul. He has no chance of winning the nomination. Plus, at least a vote for Paul is a vote against the mainstream Repuks. Every vote for Paul is a threat to them. If Paul were to unexpectedly win the Michigan primary - this would throw them into a total tizzy.
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AnnInLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. Kos Agrees With You, and Explains:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/10/2713/87225/...

In 1972, Republican voters in Michigan decided to make a little mischief, crossing over to vote in the open Democratic primary and voting for segregationist Democrat George Wallace, seriously embarrassing the state's Democrats. In fact, a third of the voters (PDF) in the Democratic primary were Republican crossover votes. In 1988, Republican voters again crossed over, helping Jesse Jackson win the Democratic primary, helping rack up big margins for Jackson in Republican precincts. (Michigan Republicans can clearly be counted on to practice the worst of racial politics.) In 1998, Republicans helped Jack Kevorkian's lawyer -- quack Geoffrey Feiger -- win his Democratic primary, thus guaranteeing their hold on the governor's mansion that year.

With a history of meddling in our primaries, why don't we try and return the favor. Next Tuesday, January 15th, Michigan will hold its primary. Michigan Democrats should vote for Mitt Romney, because if Mitt wins, Democrats win. How so?

For Michigan Democrats, the Democratic primary is meaningless since the DNC stripped the state of all its delegates (at least temporarily) for violating party rules. Hillary Clinton is alone on the ballot.

But on the GOP side, this primary will be fiercely contested. John McCain is currently enjoying the afterglow of media love since his New Hamsphire victory, while Iowa winner Mike Huckabee is poised to do well in South Carolina.

Meanwhile, poor Mitt Romney, whos suffered back-to-back losses in the last week, desperately needs to win Michigan in order to keep his campaign afloat. Bottom line, if Romney loses Michigan, he's out. If he wins, he stays in.

And we want Romney in, because the more Republican candidates we have fighting it out, trashing each other with negative ads and spending tons of money, the better it is for us. We want Mitt to stay in the race, and to do that, we need him to win in Michigan.

Two polls the last couple of days show a tight race: Strategic Vision (R) shows Romney within striking distance with 20 percent to McCain's 29 (Huckabee is third with 18), while Rossman Group shows Huckabee with the lead -- 23 percent to Romney's 22 and McCain's 18.

Now here's the thing -- without a real Democratic contest on the ballot, and a lack of party registration in Michigan, this is an open primary. Anyone can pick up a Republican ballot. So Michigan Democrats and independents who want to see the Republican battle royale continue should just take a few minutes on Tuesday, January 15th to cast a ballot for Mitt Romney in the Republican primary.

If you know someone in Michigan, send them the email I've included below the fold. If you don't know someone in Michigan, send the email to your liberal friends and see if THEY have friends in Michigan. Get the word out, whether by blog, mailing list, MySpace or Facebook page, or whatever.

If we can help push Mitt over the line, not only do we help keep their field fragmented, but we also pollute Romney's victory. How "legitimate" will the Mittster's victory look if liberals provide the margin of victory? Think of the hilarity that will ensue. We'll simply be adding fuel to their civil war, never a bad thing from our vantage point.

Michigan Democrats helped deliver their state to McCain in 2000 to spite their hated governor, John Engler, who had "guaranteed" his state to Bush. To prevent such future mischief, Michigan Republicans helped push through a unified tax-payer funded primary date to supposedly keep Democrats focused on their own race (prior to this year, party contests were funded by the parties). Let's make sure their meddling with the Democratic primary and their misuse of taxpayer funds backfires on them.

Michigan is Romneys last stand. He has pulled all advertising from other states for a last-ditch effort there. Its sink or swim time for Romney, and were going to throw him a lifesaver.

So why are we doing this? Because we can. Because it'll be fun. And because we've suffered Republican meddling, stealing, and disenfranchisement in our elections for far too long.

So get the word out and get out the vote!. Email below the fold.

* ::
*

Dear ,

We're not going to beat around the Bush. If you want to help make mischief for the Republican Party - and bolster the Democrats' chances for taking the White House this November - read on!

Are you a Democrat or independent registered to vote in Michigan? If you are, vote for Mitt Romney in the Republican primary on Tuesday, January 15th!

Do you know any Democrats or independents in Michigan? If you do, encourage them to vote for Mitt Romney in the Republican primary on Tuesday, January 15th!

And if you don't know anyone in Michigan, then forward this e-mail on to your like-minded friends - you never know who they might know.

Okay, so, I know - you must think I'm nuts to suggest that anyone ever vote Republican. But this situation is special. As it happens, the Michigan Democratic primary is uncontested. Barack Obama and John Edwards aren't even on the ballot. So that means even if you're a Hillary Clinton supporter, there's no need to vote for her - she's running unopposed.

But the Republican primary is hotly contested. And Michigan law lets anyone - including independents AND Democrats - vote in the Republican primary. This means there's a great opportunity, as we say above, for us to make mischief!

So why should Dems and indies vote Romney? After his victory in New Hampshire, the press has declared John McCain the Republican front- runner. Meanwhile, Mike Huckabee, who won in Iowa, looks poised to do well in South Carolina, which hosts the next primary after Michigan.

Meanwhile, Mitt Romney desperately needs to win Michigan in order to keep his campaign afloat. And the more Republican candidates who are fighting it out, trashing each other with negative ads and spending tons of money, the better it is for the Democratic candidates, of course! In other words, we want Mitt to stay in the race, and to do that, we need him to win in Michigan.

So Michigan Democrats and independents who want to see the Republican battle royale continue should just take a few minutes on Tuesday, January 15th to cast a ballot for Mitt Romney in the Republican primary. And don't feel bad or awkward about doing so - the Republicans have done things just like this many times in the past. What's more, if Michigan Republicans didn't want Dems or indies to vote in their primary, they could have changed the rules. But they didn't, so here we are.

Again, if you've got friends in Michigan, send this e-mail along to them. If you don't, send it to all of your friends and relatives who want to see the Republicans booted out of the White House this year - they might know some folks in Michigan. And heck, if you live in Michigan yourself, then definitely vote Romney in the primary!

Remember, the message is simple: The more Republican candidates who remain in the race, the better it is for the Democratic candidates. And Mitt Romney is much likelier to stay in the race if he wins the Michigan primary. Democrats and independents can help make this happen - by voting for Mitt!

Good luck, and to victory in November!



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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. If you like Hillary, vote in the Republican Primary.
If not, vote DK or "uncommitted".

Bottom Line.

Delegates MAY count.

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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. You're so right
I'm appalled at Kos. I just came from his thread trying to get people to vote for Romney. It's over 800 posts, so I didn't get through the whole thing, but there are a lot of differing opinions there. Some people agree with us -- vote Uncommitted. Some think Kos' idea to vote for Romney is brilliant. I think it's a hugh!!!!! mistake. I'm series!

According to John Cherry at a meeting last night, he says there are inside sources who say we'll get seated. I'm not so sure, especially if we're heading to a brokered convention.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
22. Do NOT vote for Romney!!!
That's a very bad idea.
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Hillary2008. Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
23. ..
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motorcity Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
24. I am going to vote uncommitted.
It makes the most sense for me.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
25. I voted for Mc Cain in 2000
to stop bush but, a lot of people are voting uncommitted. I think I will vote for Ron paul for irritation.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Exactly. Dems crossed over and screwed the Bush Campaign big time.
I am crossing over to vote for the plastic soul of the Republican Party.

Mitt Romney.

That oughtta piss McLame off.

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jimlup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-14-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Yeah, I crossed over in 2000 too for the same reason.
I've voted against Bush at every opportunity that I've had.

On the issue of this thread, I think voting for Romney is a mistake. He is just too mainstream and too dangerous. It isn't clear that he would loss the general election and he is a really bad choice.

At least McCain in 2000 was better than that Bu-shit disaster.
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