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riverdale Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 10:37 PM
Original message
Dingell to propose 50 cent gasoline tax increase

Impeachment off the table, but gas tax hikes are right there on it baby. Luvya dems!

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/dingell-to-propose-...

House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman John Dingell (D-Mich.) will propose a new carbon tax that would increase the gasoline tax by 50 cents, the lawmaker said in an interview on C-SPAN's Newsmakers airing Sunday.

In the interview, Dingell acknowledged that voters may not be willing to bear the cost of limiting greenhouse gas emissions, and that he would propose the new tax just to sort of see how people really feel about this.

I sincerely doubt that the American people are willing to pay what this is really going to cost them, Dingell said in the interview.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-11-07 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. And how are people supposed to pay to get to work? Not everybody lives 10min. away from their job.
Let's see, minimum wage job at $7 or so dollars an hour, two gallons of gas at roughly $3.50 a gallon and its clear that the first hour (at least) of every day of work will be to work for the oil companies and one's employer.

Solving one problem while creating another huge problem is a republican approach to problem solving.
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shaniqua6392 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-12-07 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. What the hell is he thinking?
We are struggling here in Michigan. I want to afford groceries right now....greenhouse gas emissions are important....Not as important as eating.
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-18-07 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I hope he's thinking it won't see a vote
I don't know what Dingell is thinking, bringing up a regressive (and oppressive) tax. Maybe just making some kind of point, like Rangel's draft.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-19-07 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. It's a conundrum
The question seems to be how to reduce consumption of fossil fuels, particularly crude oil. The oil companies are more than willing to trot out the ol' "supply/demand" canard and claim that increasing prices will 'naturally' reduce consumption. This, of course, is a fraudulent connection to "supply/demand" since those are terms used in a overly-simplified microeconomic sense ... where it's further theorized that the price increase resulting for demand exceeding supply will cause increased production - both from existing producers and from new producers entering a (purported) 'free market.' When, however, it's not a question of 'production' (since the actual production of crude oil is an open question with several theories) but a question of discovery and acquisition of natural resources. Since we're closing in on the limits of such resources planet-wide, the mechanism of supply/demand merely enriches current producers/suppliers rather than increases supplies.

Thus, the oil corporations are willing to rationalize windfall profits under the false cover of acting to reduce consumption. That's an illegitimate allocation of wealth. When a society's well-being is at risk as a result of limitations of a strategic resource, the economically equitable approach has usually involved rationing ... assuring that those with more dire need and lesser economic power have equitable access. A rationing system also creates a 'trickle up' effect where a market for rations (entitlements) themselves is created - selling ration coupons. The public (stampeded by wealthy economic interests) is not likely to support rationing. Thus, Dingell's proposal ('stalking horse'?) is a preemptive move ... opting to cut out the oil companies 'piece of the action' and recycling the price/ration to the common wealth rather than private wealth. It's not as equitable as rationing but it's better than ENORMOUS windfall profits for the oil companies (enriching the already wealthy).

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riverdale Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. $
I happen to be in D.C. this week and have to note that gas is $2.64 over here vs. $3.09 in Lansing. I really wish someone could figure out a reason why we are paying 45c more for gas than the rest of the country. That is something our politicians need to look into.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Taxes already into the price, makes us one of the higher gas tax States, another 50cents a gallon
will only make matters in this State worse.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. This kind of thing just really burns me up. As if we're not already struggling....
And I don't need a congressman introducing a goddamn bill like this just to see how I feel about it. Jesus, do these clowns listen to anything we try to tell them?
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. Why does Michigan have a hard time attracting jobs. The taxes Dingell, it's the freaking taxes.
I am so ready to move.
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blue_onyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Michigan in not a high tax state!
That's a GOP talking point. BTW, Michigan's problem isn't the inability to attract jobs. It's the fact that job growth can't possible keep up with the massive automotive job losses.


If we really wanted to deal with climate change and getting off foreign oil, Dingell's proposal would be one of the better options. The ONLY thing that changed our demand for oil and large vehicles was high gas prices. People seem to only want to deal with climate change if it doesn't cost them anything. This definitely isn't the best time to be increasing taxes but if we want to deal with climate change and getting off foreign oil it would be better than simply increasing CAFE standards.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Please, have you seen how much difference our Cigarettes are compared to Florida?
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 01:10 PM by sarcasmo
I am not using a Puke talking point, let's just use cigarettes for example. Marlboro runs more than two dollars less a pack in Florida, a carton here is sixty dollars while in Florida it's forty dollars. This is not a talking point it is a fact.
On edit: A survey that just came out showed we were the 41st best State to do business in, why do you think that is? Let me find the link.
Regarding gasoline, cross the State line into Indiana from Michigan and tell me who has cheaper gas. I see the tax difference every time we go south. Let me know how many smoke shops you see in Indiana selling cheap smokes.
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blue_onyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yes, cigarette taxes are hurting....
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 01:20 PM by blue_onyx
Michigan's ability to attract business :eyes:

Michigan overall tax burden is usually rated in the middle of all states (I think 22nd). The idea that MI's economy is hurting because of higher cigarettes is laughable. I'm happy we have one of the highest cigarette taxes. Health problems related to cigarette smoking are very costly and there should be an incentive to stop people from smoking.

Yes, you can find a few taxes, like the cigarette taxes, where MI is at the higher end of the scale. MI overall, however, IS NOT A HIGH TAX STATE. It is a Republican talking point and it will be used extensively in the 2010 governors race.



Edit: We are ranked 20th for tax burden, below most other neighboring states (other than Indiana).

http://www.ppinys.org/reports/jtf/businesstax.htm
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. 48th in Corporate tax maybe a pretty good reason companies leave here and head south.
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blue_onyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. So would you rather
pay the 44th highest sales tax in order to have the lowest corporate tax (like Nevada). Increasing taxes that affect the poor and middle class in order to have lowest corporate taxes....another GOP value.

BTW, this ranks OVERALL business environment. So MI has the 20th best business environment.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. It's a no win situation. You raise the taxes on the average worker and lower Corporate tax to
Attract business, and then you screw the average worker.
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blue_onyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Then you have to make a choice
I choose what's in my best interest and not what's best for corporations. I don't think Michigan will ever be able to compete at the same level of anti-union southern states. Nor should it. Businesses look at other things, not just taxes. If it was all about taxes, Michigan, California, New York, and many other states would be ghost towns while Wyoming would have millions of residents. We need to use things like our great university system to attract business. Additionally, smart use of tax incentives to attract new industries, like we've done with the film and green energy industries.

There are certainly change that could be made to our our tax system. Personally, I would like a progressive income tax, a sales tax that taxes services and products (3-4% rather than 6%), and elimination of the business sur-charge. I would also legalize marijuana and tax it heavily. Most of these changes will never happen though.

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angstlessk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-30-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. purchase your smokes online while you can..cheaper BY FAR!
Smoke Shack is the best!
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