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I am so tired of people outside of GA acting like we are silly and over-reactive regarding this storm

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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 03:42 PM
Original message
I am so tired of people outside of GA acting like we are silly and over-reactive regarding this stor...
I daresay this is as bad as anything that people in other parts of the country endure minus the equipment, experience, and snow routes that cities who get a lot of snow have.

I'm also tired of having to see the mayor of Atlanta apologizing over and over for the city's supposed lack of response. Would creating and financing an emergency snow plan when this extreme weather is an anomaly REALLY be the best use of taxpayer dollars at this time?
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well yeah. It's not that uncommon.
I agree with the first bit but its high time the state and counties invest in some socialist road clearing equipment. The need to clear roads happens about once every 5 years and it has a huge economic impact when it does. Unless you're in the collision/body shop business.
And the reason this had gone on for nearly a week is because there was no resources. A 5 pct tax on guns outta cover it.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I think it's extremely uncommon
I only remember 3 events like this in GA since 1993.

As I said in another post, this is a situation where relying on contractors is probably the answer. Of course, that needs to be planned for and maybe now a plan will be put into place.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Like I said, about once every 5 years. And this didn't start in 1993
Just think about what would happen if a hurricane came and shut down miami and fortlauderdale for a week every 5 years.
Well it sorta does. But it's hugely disruptive.

How is relying on contractors the answer? Then it's going to be a lot more expensive. You have to pay for all that profit and poor performance.
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Phentex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I don't understand your point...
when you look at potential, obviously Miami and Ft. Lauderdale are going to stand a greater chance of being affected by hurricanes than Atlanta will be of having an ice storm. Global warming might be changing that but as Iris points out, we have to go on statistics.

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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Exactly. Every 5 years - not exactly
Like I said, I've been in Atlanta for almost 16 years and I think before this week, I've missed a total of 2 days of work due to snow. When I lived in Atlanta proper, the sewers overflowed every time it rained. That's where I think tax money needs to be spent, not on preparation for a random act of nature. Can you imagine if the city spent money making a snow plan? The ridicule they would receive from residents as well as outsiders?

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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. the city should already have HAD a snow program in place!
They are getting razzed about it out of state because it WAS NOT DONE.

I've been here a couple of years longer than you, and I live in the northern suburbs of Atlanta. I can tell you that WE have lost more than 2 days worth of work time over the same amount of time you claim you did.

Even now, after listening to that laughable speech from Deal about how *well* the state has handled the situation -- I grit my teeth. Because basic stockpiling of rocksalt and making a program to attack the problem from day one is not going to seem stupid -- it's essential. And it was NOT done.

That Snow you think is unimportant goes down the very same drains you claim need to be worked on. IIRC ten inches of snow equals an inch of rain. That ice and snow has to go somewhere, and if it isn't removed -- where does it go? Into the drains.

It may not happen every year, but it does happen. If there had been enough trucks out at the start the city wouldn't have shut down for the week. My DH does deliveries in our area, and he said that aside from the few main drags, not much else was done.

Having a plan in place and ready is not a waste of taxpayer money. It's prudent planning - something this state has an allergic reaction to at the best of times.

It's a miracle we didn't have deaths caused by this storm, as they had in NY. Next time that may happen.
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Phentex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Do you have stats to back that up?
My kids are in high school and I can count on one hand the number of times they've had to be out of school for snow days. The state only allows for four weather related days and those are likely to be for flooding (we get the hurricane leftovers), not ice or snow.

I guess we have different priorities. When I sit at school board meetings and hear all about shortages and schools without basics, I'd be pissed to hear about money being spent on snow equipment. To each his own.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Are you on the southside or ITP?
In n. gwinnett we didnt even have mail for a few days. Things started to get normal on the friday. That was still a big disruption in business. My business would gladly chip in to pay for ice clearing efforts.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. My point is the road conditions (read: road conditions, not the weather) shut down the area for
nearly a week!
We weren't even getting mail delivery.
Shutting down for a week cost us big. Lots of complaints from out of state customers who were not sympathetic in the least.

This was an expensive event. The cost to bring in extra salt trucks would have been worth it.
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Phentex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. "Bringing in" is a far cry from buying the equipment...
Nobody said trucks should not have been brought in. We said they shouldn't be purchased for the "just in case" event that rarely happens.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-24-11 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. What Iris, the OP asked was...
What Iris asked was:
"Would creating and financing an emergency snow plan when this extreme weather is an anomaly REALLY be the best use of taxpayer dollars at this time?"

MY answer to that question is YES.

Lots of tax revenue was lost because of the treacherous road conditions. Lots of people needed the work hours and their workplace was closed.
It would have been a fantastic use of taxpayer dollars at this time.
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Phentex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. I agree. And nobody can drive on ice!
Well, nobody should.

The roads here are hilly and steep in places. We still have tons of trees that block sunlight. There isn't much you can do about ice until the temps go up.

As I said in another post, it would be wasteful to put too much money into equipment for this kind of thing since it doesn't happen that often.

We are a city built for driving. Maybe that's one of the real problems!
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. This is a situation where a public/private partnership makes a lot of sense, imo
Since we only get a situation like this every 5-7 years, it makes sense to have a list of private companies to contract with when these events happen.

You are right about too much driving in this town, though. I live in a MARTA corridor, and most of the businesses on our main street were open this week.
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groundloop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. There's a lot that can be done (I lived in the north for a few years)
Edited on Fri Jan-14-11 08:13 AM by groundloop
The thing that got me was when I saw a state DOT spokesperson on the news saying that the year's budget for road clearing has already been spent - that budget clearly needs to be increased and if it isn't all needed should be saved for years when it is. Of course this will never happen because Nathan Deal's first words after being elected was that he's cutting state budgets so that he can give tax breaks to businesses.

State and county road officials should visit northern states to learn how they handle winter storms. For one thing you don't need dedicated snow plowing equipment, plows can be fitted on other vehicles such as garbage trucks and even pickup trucks at a relatively low cost. The dedicated snow equipment can handle main roads and the slower/smaller vehicles fitted with snow plows can do parking lots and smaller residential streets.

One factor that makes matters worse is the hills, it's one thing to drive on icy roads that are relatively flat but all of our hills make it impossible. And of course there's a lack of experience driving on ice because it happens so infrequently.



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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. of course there's a lot that can be done
but some northern cities still get shut down by blizzards and ice storms. Budget cuts aside, I would assume road-clearing budgets are based on previous years. I've lived in GA most of my life and the Atlanta area for over 15 years. Since 1993, there have only been 3 weather events that have shut the city down to this extent.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-11 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Those cities don't get shut down over 3 inches of snow
Please -- that comparison doesn't work. Not even close. :eyes:
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RavensChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
13. You're not silly at all,
and I say that for all of you. I have family and friends in the Atlanta/Decatur/Covington/Madison areas, and I can tell you from what most of them have told me that the best advice is to stay put, period! If the state, as well as the counties affected by the storm has the necessary funds earmarked BEFORE the storm, no matter when it happens, there won't be so much debate as to how and when the roads can be treated. I may be a so-called "Yankee", but my late father was from Eatonton and he was amazed as to the snow that came into the Washington, DC area many years ago. I'll say for the most part it's gotten much worse up here after he died in 1995, so I can tell you that when snow and ice and sleet comes down, either in Atlanta or DC, or even further north from me (Philly, New York, Boston) for that matter, we're all in the same situation.

Besides, if anything I felt sorry for all of you having to experience that. I've been watching online and on TV the whole story and seeing the pictures on the Atlanta Journal-Constitution website blew me away! Besides, we're dealing with freezing rain AND ice up here today (which prompted me to call my boss telling her I'm staying put today), so a lot of schools in Northern VA and most of Maryland are closed; the Federal govt. and most of DC is on a 2 hour delay (which isn't gonna matter to most of us anyhow because the conditions are just too dangerous to WALK, let alone drive); and it'll be a day or so before the meltdown occurs.

As for the cost of all of this, there's no excuse for not having the necessary equipment to treat the roads. Then again, common sense does not play out among govt. officials no matter where you are so keep the ice storm in mind come election time, good, bad, or indifferent so they'll get the message!

So, I can only hope you're all okay and the ice is nothing more than a memory now. Many other areas in the country are getting hit much worse than you guys are and for me and everyone in the DC area, so if anything, count your blessings. We could be dealing with more extreme conditons.

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1American Donating Member (154 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
16. Our Georgia snow storm
The main complaints in my city in Georgia came from self-centered spoiled individuals who felt entitled to have THEIR street cleared before all others. Even though the streets were glistening slick from a thick layer of ice, they then went on to complain about the use of salt because it may damage their cars.

The State of Georgia is strongly right-wing politically. It has melded Christianity with Republican/Tea Party in the hopes that all government will be identical to Christianity. These people, like Sarah Palin and her gang, want ALL Americans to exclusively be white, Christian, and willing to carry guns in preparation for war of any kind.

They actually believe that the Federal Government is a separate entity out to destroy their religion and way of life. How they justify this with their placement of Religious/Republicans in government is beyond me.

This is one of the more "normal" states in the South. South Carolina and Alabama are beyond belief.
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