So tell me about San Francisco

[slutticus]

I have an on-site job interview in SF in early February. I really want this job, but I've only been to SF once in my life. I loved it, but I didn't get to spend too much time there.

Is it a cool place to live? I know it's really expensive, but is the expense worth the quality of life there?

What are the pros and cons of life in the Bay area? Also, what would be the best places to live as far a accessibility and cost? (I would be working in South SF)


Thanks for your input!

[proud patriot]

1. I live in the suburbs of SF

as far as City life goes SF nice , but for me
a nice place to visit . Lots of parks and stuff
for those who like nature . Awesome dog walking
place Fort Funtson ...

I love The SF Bay Area , but it's the only place
I've lived so it's hard for me to Compare it to
anywhere else .

[EVDebs]

2. Cool alright. What's that quote by Mark Twain about the coldest winter he

ever had was a summer in San Francisco ? Something like that. Biggest con is high rent/housing prices. Other than that, the football team needs an owner like old Eddie D, not Johnny York, unless he's had a 'damascus road' moment.

Aside from housing prices and difficult commutes if you're driving (BART is nice) most of the people are pretty darn nice if I may say so myself. So, try to save money by using public transit and not owning a car and renting one when you need to; and cut down on car insurance that way too.

Read up on Ernest Callenbach's stuff, a local from Berkeley, who wrote How to Live Cheaply and With Style !

[TomClash]

3. I've been there several times

and it my favorite citys in the US after NYC. However, the housing prices are high like NYC. Check that out before you commit to the job.

[Coastie for Truth]

4. I live in Silicon Valley (Santa Clara County)

...that's the very bottom of SF Bay, about 40 miles from "The City".

In one respect very much like Boston, NYC, Phillie -- a very high concentration of very intelligent, very well educated, very articulate people.

The most racially, religiously, sexually diverse place in the world.

People in the Bay Area take their politics very seriously (mostly on the left).

Berkeley, Stanford, UCSF (graduate life sciences), CSUSF, SJSU, USF, and SCU set a high academic standard in the Bay Area.

And, if you expand "San Francisco" to include the gamut from Monterey and Carmel in the South to the Wine Country in the North, and the Pacific on the west to the Mountains and Tahoe on the east --- really great.

Fell in love with the place in 68 when I was out here in the Coast Guard, vowed to come back permanently, and we ultimately did.

[Coastie for Truth]

6. As to weather

...San Francisco - "north of the airport" can be 20 degrees cooler then "south of the airport" - just the micro climates.

[slutticus]

8. What's the weather typically like year round?

A friend of mine told me there is always fog. Is this true?

How hot/cold does it get there? I'm from Houston, so I'm used to sweltering humidity.

[Coastie for Truth]

Compared to San Jose

Usually cooler. Even in San Jose, I don't run the air conditioner more then 80 hours a year.

Definitely not sweltering. The Pacific Northwest has "mild weather" - no real extremes.

As to fog-- look at a topographic map ---- and pick out I-280 and the various "Foothill" Roads, expressways, blvd's etc. Everything west of the "foothills" and I-280 can see fog from early evening until mid-morning. Everything east watches he fog just barely come over the mountains from the west at about 4 PM and retreat at 10AM. It's really neat to sit near the Stanford campus and watch the fog come just so far and stop. (Try the west facing dining room at Stanford's Tressider Union and catch the fog, while the campus is clear.)

SFO airport always has fog - cause it sticks out in the Bay -- but so do OAK and Moffett - and they don't.

[musette_sf]

26. I lived in Houston for 13 years

and I LOVE the SF Bay Area weather. No Dr. Neil screaming at you about the next hurricane.

In fact, Bay Area forecasters are so often wrong or off, for the most part you have to stick your head out the door to decide what to wear. That's mostly due to the many microclimates in the area.

It's warmer on the South Bay end and East Bay hills. It's cooler (foggier) in Oakland, El Cerrito, and places north. The City is pretty foggy overall in the mornings.

If you do decide to move out here, you will laugh at what the locals call a "flood", a "storm", or a "thunderstorm". (Although there are parts of the area that will flood when oversaturated... I'm referring to running out to the parking lot because someone yelled FLOOD, only to see about three inches of standing water.) I don't think I've seen red on the local radar more than a handful of times in the past 6+ years.

You will probably freak out to see that most housing does not have air conditioning. We have a week or two during the summer that is kind of warm, but nothing like 95 degrees at 7AM while jogging on Buffalo Bayou.

[slutticus]

29. Ahhh yes...Dr Neil Frank. He's a dumbass

I was here for the biblical flood of 2001 (Allison). I was trapped in my house for 3 days. They sure as hell didn't predict that one!

[sakabatou]

53. There is fog almost every day except in the summer and early fall

It can get from 23 to 103 (lows/highs of 2000, I think).

[SnowBack]

55. Actually, the fog is only DURING the summer...

That's how you can tell it's the summer in the city.... The fog starts to come in every day at around 3 or 4...

Places right on the ocean get it ALL the time though....

[Coastie for Truth]

7. As to housing costs

it's easy to fall in love with the area - until you see the rents. Prices and rents can be lower - much lower - for newer, modern housing the further out you go on BART and CalTrain --- not cheap like Mid-Continent but cheaper then SF itself.

If you are working in South Francisco - you can take BART from way out in the East Bay to Milbrae, SFO Airport, South San Francisco, or Colma. The web site is http://www.bart.gov /

Also, you can take Caltrain from Santa Clara County (including Morgan Hill and Gilroy) to South San Francisco. The web site is http://www.caltrain.org /

[slutticus]

11. Yeah, I've been looking at rent rates.

They all seem to be around $1,000/mo. at the cheapest.

This is OK for me, but I was thinking about maybe having a roommate or something in order to get a bigger place for cheaper.

I could conceivably go up to 1,700, but I'd rather not (gotta eat!)

So how much cheaper are the rents in the East Bay area? How long would it take me to get to work if I lived out there (from East bay to south SF?)

[Coastie for Truth]

12. Check the Shea and Avalon web sites for

a lot of value for the money (altho a bit above average in price) --

also, check out the CalTrain and BART web sites for travel times.

[slutticus]

14. cool. Thanks!

[EVDebs]

17. Check out Craig's List

you might be able to afford San Mateo County and commute on CalTrain going north. Or the East Bay and commute west using BART. Also this site is good for all kinds of other info.

http://www.craigslist.org /

the tabs are:

sfc SFCity,
sby SouthBay (SanJose SantaClaraCounty)
eby EastBay
pen Peninsula (SanMateo County)
nby NorthBay (Marin,Sonoma Counties)

[slutticus]

18. Yeah, I was thinking about East bay

I was reading about a possible Ferry service for people working on Oyster Point/Point San Bruno who want to commute from East bay. It looks like it was approved by the voters, but I can't find anything about when the service will start.

Has anyone heard anything?

I've been thinking about the East bay to SSF commute on BART, but I'm not sure I like the idea of going under the bay in that tube twice a day, at least until they do the Earthquake upgrades

[EVDebs]

19. You can commute from the EBay using ACTransit and ferry from

Alameda to SF. Good luck and hope you get the job.

[musette_sf]

27. ah, come on

I do it every day. I'd rather ride the BART in the Transbay Tube, than watch a tornado take out the side of the Foley's across the highway.

[slutticus]

28. I've actually been in a tornado.

Nasville, 1998. Went right through the city. I actually used to go storm chasing when I was in college. I never saw one then, but we almost got killed in a hailstorm. It was intense.

As far as the transbay tube, hopefully they'll hurry up and do work on it.
I've never been in an earthquake so it's still something that's pretty scary to me.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

5. I grew up there and I avoid it

like the plague. It's dirty, there is NO place to park and it has some of the best views on earth but I only go there if I absolutly have to. San Jose is much nicer. Warmer too.

[Coastie for Truth]

9. San Jose is Silicon Valley - 40 Miles +/- South of San Francisco

[saltpoint]

10. I spend as much vacation time there as possible --

-- there and in Berkeley.

Both cities struggle with a homeless population. And as DUers here have mentioned, housing is very high.

On the positive side, the bookshops and music shops are unbelievably good. (Especially try: Bound Togerther, in the Haight district.) The food is terrific. (Especially try: The Sukothai -- a Thai restaurant on I believe 9th Ave at Irving -- SFers help me out here...)

You are represented by Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, and the city council is quite progressive. Independent parties abound.

The film selection is close to New York's. The opera is the second best in the hemisphere. Two major league baseball teams. Very workable mass transit.

And the views of the Pacific from Buena Vista Park are breath-taking.

Last but not least, you won't hear much from the fundamentalist Christian nutcases in San Francisco. The city's population has a strikingly high number of free thinkers of all persuasions.

[Coastie for Truth]

13. Father Ward and Rabbi Lerner and Glide Church

define the religious community. It's the old fashion 1930's and 1960's religious LEFT with gay clergy and gay "joinings together" --- and lots of peace work and lots of charity work.

Most definitely, "Last but not least, you won't hear much from the fundamentalist Christian nutcases in San Francisco. The city's population has a strikingly high number of free thinkers of all persuasions."

[saltpoint]

15. Yes. and bravo!

[mitchtv]

16. I will always regret leaving the Bay Area.

I lived in SF from 67 to 85 and Sonoma til 2002. I still look at the mountains that surround this inland Ca Valley. and long to see the fog sitting in the hills waiting for the sun to relent, so it can come rolling in.It happens twice a year here. I have real trouble getting a decent loaf of sourdough french bread,in this section of the state too.I recommend the bay area to any liberal.

[davidinalameda]

20. I'm in the East Bay

and I love it

I'm in Alameda--it doesn't seem like a suburb at all

it's only about 75,000 people and you have pretty much everything you need, and it's an island

we don't have Wal-Marts or any of the super stores but we do have small neighborhood shops

it really feels like a community and not just some place to sleep

and it's close enough to Oakland and SF

and I take BART to work

[slutticus]

21. Is BART pretty reliable for the commute?

How crowded are the trains in the morning?

I'm sure it's a lot better than driving.

[davidinalameda]

22. extremely reliable

the trains aren't that bad--yes, I have to stand sometimes but I get on three stops before the first SF stop

and yes, it's a million times better than driving into SF--the Bay Bridge is a nightmare every morning

[AlCzervik]

23. I love SanFrancisco, we moved to northern california

about 5 years ago and SanFrancisco is my favorite city. My friend lives there, he has a decent sized plce he shares with 2 roomates, he uses the BART everyday and has no complaints.

[slutticus]

24. Cool.

My interview is on the 15th and 16th. I can't wait.

Sounds like a really cool place!

[MontecitoDem]

25. Go! Go!

It's the best city in the US. You'll love it. Fun, interesting, real, full of art and music and smart people, great food, wine, coffee shops, book stores, I could go on and on.

Lived there for 13 years. Moved for work. It' been 5 years since I left and it's still painful!

[Nailzberg]

30. If you are going, be sure to wear flowers in your hair.

Second time I was able to use that song today.

[Jack Rabbit]

31. San Francisco is the center of the universe

What else do you want to know?

[FightingIrish]

32. San Francisco is a filthy, violent hell hole

I have been off DU for the past four months caring for my son who was nearly killed in San Francisco. He was brutally beaten and robbed on an outing with his fraternity brothers and will probably never walk again. Our three weeks there while he was recovering from four surgeries was pure hell. I used to live in Silicon Valley and thought SF was paradise. It has become a filthy, corrupt, chaotic sewer and I would avoid it all costs.

[Kolesar]

33. I am very sorry to hear that

I am going to SF in about a week on business and hoped to find good stuff to do on this thread. Maybe I will stay away after all.

[loritooker]

34. My god that's terrible. Where did it happen. We just moved back here after

15 years away. Missed the dot-bomb. It's more violent here than before, more crime. More theft. Both our cars have been broken into, can't leave anything unlocked-down even in the suburbs...I'm very sorry this happen to you.

[FightingIrish]

35. Not the best part of town.

Our son had gone to the Tenderloin District with his fraternity pledge class. He wasn't street smart, just out of high school from a small town. During our three weeks at San Francisco General Hospital we met many other families dealing with similar senseless violent crimes. We only met the families of the victims who lived.

[hunter]

38. Sadly, you do need "street smarts."

In that respect San Francisco is like most U.S. cities. I don't think it's much changed from the late 'seventies or early 'eighties when I was a young man.

I remember when I was a kid from a boring semi-rural suburb thinking Los Angeles was a "paradise," especially Westwood and Venice Beach...

It was not. My prayers go out to you.

[slutticus]

43. I'm sorry about your son

How is he doing?

[FightingIrish]

49. He's still not able to walk.

Thanks to his guts and determination he's headed back to school in two weeks. We are proud of his courageus effort but we are not at all thrilled about returning to the Bay area.

[ailsagirl]

36. The Bay Area rocks. San Francisco is the hub.

[slackmaster]

37. Cool and foggy, and the food is great

I love San Francisco.

[XemaSab]

39. It's REALLY expensive

Parts of the Bay Area are almost worth it, but many parts are not.

On the plus side: lots of different people and different cultures and yummy FOOD.

On the minus side: parts of San Francisco are utterly disgusting. There are homeless in many places, and the crime rate can be disturbing. The traffic can be nightmarish.

Don't live in a building that will collapse in a quake (NO ground floor garage) or burn down in a wildfire (NO living on a narrow road in the eucalyptus trees). The Bay Bridge is not safe in quakes either, and it takes more time to drive across it than BART takes going through the tube.

Generally, quakes aren't that big a deal. The odds of getting hurt in a quake are very very small. It's not like other countries, where hundreds or thousands of people get killed in modest quakes. And hey, y'all have hurricanes and tornados in Texas, which we don't have here.

Enjoy!

[democracyindanger]

40. Quakes

Just find an apartment on a hill--that's where all the sturdy rock is.

[XemaSab]

42. Good call

Avoid the lowland areas... the ground there is not stable and will shake like a bowl of jello in a quake.

[slutticus]

45. So having a ground floor garage is bad?

Is that because it lacks support beams?

I've seen pictures of houses from the last quake there, many times the top floor was squished by the upper floors. But that was mostly in the Marina district, I guess because of liquefaction.

[XemaSab]

47. Yeah

lack of support.

usually homes with ground floor garages have enough support, but apartments on pilings are bad news.

[justsomegirl]

41. SF vs. SSF

Also note that South SF is acutally the second city down from SF proper. There's both a BART stop and a Caltrain station in SSF; it may or may not be close, depending on where you work - some larger companies provide shuttles to get you to and from work to the station.

If you look for places to live in the cities surrounding South SF, try to look for places on the west side of El Camino Real, the neighborhoods are generally better.

If you look for places in the city, there are districts to be avoided: Tenderloin, Bayview/Hunter's Point are two- some other people might be able to mention more.

Good luck with the interview!

[slutticus]

44. ***UPDATE***

Hello everyone! Thanks for your replies.

I have had my interview, everything went well. There is about a 99% chance that I will get the job offer. The hiring manager has told me that I am the top candidate, and they are waiting for approval by the scientific appointments committee before they can give me a formal offer. I will know for sure by April 1st.

I've been looking at apertments....mostly in the Peninsula. I'm trying to stay between SF and San Mateo. I think the best thing for me to do is to find a roommate, at least for a while.

I really want this job, it's with a great company.......i'm crossing my fingers!

[democracyindanger]

46. Good luck

If--I mean WHEN--you get the offer, ask the HR person if they have any resources to help you find a place.

[Jack Rabbit]

48. Good luck

And welcome to the center of the universe.

[Duncan Grant]

50. Good Luck!

PM a few of us here in SF/Bay Area before you decide on a place to live. The city might be a better option than you think...

[Joz]

51. SF & Crime (vs. LA)

It's funny/interesting.... I had always thought of Los Angeles as gangster and San Fran as not. I moved to Los Angeles in 99 and have been in all types of neighborhoods, moved around quite a bit. I've had my car parked unattended for long times in some hoods, some pretty shady areas, have no car alarm on it, but it's always been fine. Then in 2003 I took my first trip to san fran with a friend and we were staying with his friend in the city in a relatively "nice" area. Didn't make it 3 days and found my car's window shattered and broken into.

Now it's not fully to blame on crime - just the day before my friend's friend was telling us how it gets so cold sometimes in the summer nights (it was summer) that bums will break into peoples cars just to sleep in them (away from the cold wind). So I think thats what happened primarily, because we did see some bums in the area, though they did steal my friend's bag full of stuff.

[pelagius]

52. When I lived in San Francisco...

...I just left the car doors unlocked (no valuables inside, of course) so they wouldn't break my windows to rummage around for something to sell for crack. After awhile, I just gave up having a car and rented one for drives outside the City. If you live and work in the City, this is quite feasible.

If you have a car in the City, you will need to factor in the cost of parking tickets. You _will_ get parking tickets.

[SnowBack]

54. Another vote for Alameda

Alameda is one of the jewels in the Bay Area... Small town, easy access to San Francisco using either the Ferry or BART, quiet, FLAT, filled with Victorians and Bungalows, and amazing views of San Fran.

I didn't want to move here from SF a few years ago, but am SO glad I did... The weather is ALOT better - think I've seen fog twice in a few years - except when I hit SF, and it's becoming one of THE great places to live...

I commute every day almost to San Jose, and that is definitely a negative... I leave an hour and a half before I start work... Sometimes I'm at work in 20 minutes, but other times I barely get there on time...

But when I worked in SF, I could catch a ferry and get to downtown SF in 15 minutes... When we go there on the weekends, we park at West Oakland Bart and are in downtown SF in 7 minutes!

And in over 9 years here, I've never had my car broken into, my house broken into or any sort of major problem.... (knock wood....)

I can't imagine living anywhere else...

[slutticus]

56. I GOT THE JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WooooHooooo!!!!!!!!!!!






Don't know when I'll start yet. Must start my apartment search...