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digno dave Donating Member (992 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:35 PM
Original message
Kerry's Brain Fart
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 06:36 PM by digno dave
The outcome of the debate could not have been more favorable for Kerry. That being said, the "global test" quote by Kerry will be hammered on by Bush & Co. for the next month. i instantly sank down in my chair the second that prase popped out of his mouth.
After all the work Kerry has put in to dismissing the Repug claims about him being Kofi Annan's drinking buddy. What was he thinking? i know the context of the statement isn't near as damning but you can bet that is not how the repugs wil play it.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Be Afraid.... Be Very Afraid....
Not...
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tom22 Donating Member (240 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. It's not important but
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 06:39 PM by tom22
it needs to be responded to IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No more swift boat moments. Respond! ATTACK AND DESTROY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Bush knows that John Kerry said he'll never give a veto any other country
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. zzz. nt
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:38 PM
Original message
Maybe It Was An Inelegant Phrase...
If it wasn't that it would be his manicure or tan...
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Demi_Babe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. rapid response
BUSH-CHENEY AD FACT CHECK: Global Test
There’s a reason why the Bush campaign is putting up this completely false ad. They know the president failed to make his case across the stage with John Kerry at the debate. Now they’re flat out lying to try and repair the damage done. President Bush knows good and well that John Kerry said when it comes to America’s national security, he'll never give a veto to any other country. John Kerry will take any action necessary to protect the United States from immediate danger

THE FACTS:

AD TITLE: “Global Test”
DATE: 10/2/04
TYPE: 30sec TV
PAID FOR BY: Bush-Cheney ’04

BUSH-CHENEY CREDIBILITY GAP

VOICE OVER: “He said he'd attack terrorists who threaten America.”

THE FACTS ON JOHN KERRY’S RECORD

Kerry Will Never Hesitate To Use Military Force To Preempt Any Imminent Threat to America’s Security. “As president, I will never hesitate to use military force to pre-empt any imminent threat to our nations security. I will never give any country or any international institution a veto over our national security. I will use all of America's power to defeat terrorists before they strike us.”

Kerry Has Said He Would Launch Preemptive Strikes Against Terrorists. “Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry said Friday he would be willing to launch a pre-emptive strike against terrorists if he had adequate intelligence of a threat. Kerry offered some support for one of the most controversial aspects of President Bush's national security policy, even as he criticized the president for not reforming intelligence agencies after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. ‘Am I prepared as president to go get them before they get us if we locate them and have the sufficient intelligence? You bet I am,’ he said at a news conference at his Washington headquarters.”

Kerry: "The President Always Has The Right, And Always Has Had The Right For Preemptive Strike."

GEORGE BUSH’S RECORD OF FAILURE

GEORGE BUSH HAS DIVERTED CRITICAL RESOURCES FROM THE WAR ON TERROR.

§ Bush Failure to Focus On Capturing Bin Laden The “Gravest Error” In The War on Terror. The Bush administration itself concluded that Osama bin Laden was present during the battle for Tora Bora late last year and that failure to commit U.S. ground troops to hunt him was its gravest error in the war against al Qaeda, according to civilian and military officials with first-hand knowledge.

§ The Rush To War In Iraq Took The Pressure Off Of Bin Laden And Al Qaeda. In 2002, troops from the 5th Special Forces Group who specialize in the Middle East were pulled out of the hunt for Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan to prepare for their next assignment: Iraq. The CIA, meanwhile, was stretched badly in its capacity to collect, translate and analyze information coming from Afghanistan. US Intelligence officials said that as much as half of the intelligence and special forces assets in Afghanistan and Pakistan were diverted to support the war in Iraq.

§ Bush Diverted “the Perfect Weapon” From the Hunt for Bin Laden to Iraq: Bush removed nearly all the Predator UAVs from Afghanistan in early 2002. According to a Senior Senate Intelligence Committee member, pulling the “perfect weapon” from Afghanistan for Iraq undermined the war against al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

BUSH OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE REALITY THAT KEY AL QAEDA TERRORISTS ELUDE CAPTURE THREE YEARS AFTER THE SEPTEMBER 11TH ATTACKS.

§ Bush’s Record of Failure: Three Years Later, Still No Ideas On Whereabouts Of Osama Bin Laden Or Ayman Al-Zawahiri. On the 3rd year anniversary of September 11th, Major General Eric Olsen, the commanding general of Combined Joint Task Forces in Afghanistan, told the Associated Press that the U.S. military has no ideas as to the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden nor his top deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri, and that senior leaders of al Qaeda continue to direct attacks against Americans.

§ Bush So Out of Touch, He Claims To Have Wiped Out 3/4 Of Al Qaeda, Yet The Organization Is Resurging And Morphing. Despite Bush’s claims over the past several months that “much of Al Qaeda’s leadership has been killed or captured,” new evidence from Al Qaeda double-agent Mohammed Naeem Noor Khan’s computer, seized in Pakistan, shows that a “new generation of operatives… to be filling the vacuum created when leaders were killed or captured.” According to intelligence analysts, “Al Qaeda’s upper ranks are being filled by lower-ranking members and more recent recruits.” Al Qaeda is “more resilient than was previously understood and has sought to find replacements for operational commanders like Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Walid Muhammad Salih bin Attash, known as Khallad, all of whom have been captured.” Although several major leaders have been captured, “the new operatives appear as committed to striking the U.S.”

BUSH-CHENEY CREDIBILITY GAP

VOICEOVER: “But at the debate, John Kerry said America must pass a ‘global test’ before we protect ourselves. The Kerry doctrine: A global test. So we must seek permission from foreign governments before protecting America?”

THE FACTS ON JOHN KERRY’S RECORD

John Kerry Will Take Any Action Necessary to Protect America And Will Never Give Another Country a Veto Over American Security – And Unlike Bush, Kerry Will Be Honest With America and the World About What He’s Doing and Why. John Kerry said that when it comes to America’s national security, he'll never give a veto to any other country. And he vowed to take any action necessary to protect the United States from immediate danger. But unlike Bush, Kerry will be honest with the American people and the world about what he is doing and why - the global test is not asking for a permission slip, but making sure that the decisions you make stand up to scrutiny and are backed by facts. John Kerry said that “no president through all of American history has ever ceded and nor would I the right to pre-empt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America. But if and when you do it, Jim, you've got to do it in a way that passes the test. That passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing. And you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.”

John Kerry has a Realistic Plan to Get Commitments of Troops and Resources from Allies, and the Leadership to Make it Happen. “The President should convene a summit meeting of the world’s major powers and Iraq’s neighbors, this week, in New York, where many leaders will attend the U.N. General Assembly. He should insist that they make good on that U.N. resolution. He should offer potential troop contributors specific, but critical roles, in training Iraqi security personnel and securing Iraq’s borders. He should give other countries a stake in Iraq’s future by encouraging them to help develop Iraq’s oil resources and by letting them bid on contracts instead of locking them out of the reconstruction process.”

John Kerry Has the Strength and Conviction to Move Past Bush Failures, Bring Allies To Our Side. “We have to move our allies beyond the resentment they feel about the Bush administration's failed diplomacy so they can focus on their interest in fighting terrorism and promoting peace. The best way to do that is to vest friends and allies in Iraq's future,” Kerry said, by giving allies access to the multibillion-dollar reconstruction contracts and involving them in the reconstruction of Iraq's profitable oil industry in return for their forgiveness of Saddam Hussein’s multibillion-dollar debts to their countries and payment of their fair share of the reconstruction bill. John Kerry also called for a regional conference with Iraq's neighbors to secure a pledge to respect the nation’s borders and commit Iraq's leaders to provide clear protection for minorities; and for NATO to step up and accept a peacekeeping role in Iraq.

GEORGE BUSH’S RECORD OF FAILURE

GEORGE BUSH MISLED AMERICA ABOUT THE REASONS FOR WAR.

§ George Bush Said Saddam Hussein “Has Got Weapons of Mass Destruction” – But Inspectors, Outside Experts Say No Stockpiles Existed, and Powell and Blair Admit Errors. Bush said “The dictator of Iraq has got weapons of mass destruction.” But Weapons inspector David Kay said there “were no large stockpiles of WMD,” a conclusion agreed with by the new Duelfer report, which “finds no evidence that Iraq had begun any large-scale program for weapons production. Colin Powell said he was “not happy” that information he presented “turned out not to be accurate,” and Tony Blair says the evidence “turned out to be wrong.” Paul Wolfowitz later admitted that WMD was “settled on” as the cause for war because “everyone could agree on” it, not because it was the most compelling.

§ George Bush Said Iraq Had Ties to al Qaeda – But Experts Found Claim Was Inaccurate. Bush said “evidence … reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda.” But the 9/11 Commission report said no “collaborative operational relationship” existed between Iraq and al Qaeda, and the Senate Intelligence Committee found no “established, formal” relationship. Dr. Jeffrey Record, a professor at the Air Force Air War College, called the conflation of Iraq and Al Qaeda “a strategic error of the first order.”

§ The Bush Administration Misled The Country on the Costs of War. The administration said that U.S. taxpayers would only have to spend $1.7 billion for Iraqi reconstruction, and Paul Wolfowitz called an estimate by retired Army Chief of Staff, Gen. Shinseki, who predicted several hundred thousand troops would be required to stabilize Iraq, “wildly off the mark.” Bush’s economic advisor Lawrence Lindsey was fired for saying the war could cost $200 billion. But the war is costing U.S. taxpayers $200 billion.
GEORGE BUSH ALIENATED OUR ALLIES AND TOOK AMERICA TO WAR VIRTUALLY ALONE.

§ Bush Not Facing Reality That U.S., Britain, Australia Only Nations to Send Combat Troops for First Military Strike in Iraq. Besides the United States, which sent 250,000 combat troops to Iraq at the start of the war, “only Britain, with its 45,000 troops, planes and warships, and Australia, with its 2,000-strong phalanx of special forces, fighter planes and naval vessels, are offering up” combat troops.

§ Bush Refusing to Take Responsibility for Nearly 90 Percent Of Coalition Troops Being American. There are now 162,000 coalition troops in Iraq. 140,000 of those troops are American – nearly 90 percent.

§ Bush Refusing to Take Responsibility for U.S. Forces Bearing Nearly 90 Percent of Casualties. “There have been 1,198 coalition deaths, 1,059 Americans, 68 Britons, six Bulgarians, one Dane, two Dutch, one Estonian, one Hungarian, 19 Italians, one Latvian, 13 Poles, one Salvadoran, three Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and nine Ukrainians, in the war in Iraq as of October 1, 2004.”

§ Bush Not Facing Reality That Coalition Nations Withdrawing Troops from Iraq. Since the beginning of the war, eight countries are planning to or have already withdrawn troops from the coalition in Iraq: Thailand, Norway, Dominican Republic, Honduras, Nicaragua, Philippines, Singapore, and Spain. In all, nearly 3,000 troops have pulled out or planning to pull out of Iraq this month. Costa Rica, which never offered any material support or troops for the war in Iraq, asked the United States to remove it from a list of Iraq coalition partners in September after the country’s Constitutional Court ruled that inclusion on the list violated the Constitution, which bars support for any military action not authorized by the United Nations.

§ Bush Fractured Alliance With Schroeder In War on Terror. “The German Chancellor, Gerhard Schroeder, has expressed strong reservations about any military attack on Iraq. Mr Schroeder, a staunch US ally in the ‘war on terror,’ warned that such a move could destroy the international alliance set up following the 11 September attacks… ‘This war (on terror) is not yet won, so I warn against an attack on Iraq.’”

Ø Iraq War Damaged US-Mexico Friendship. “Fox has had to watch his stock plummet in Washington, where he was once feted as Bush’s cowboy-boot-wearing friend. But after Sept. 11, Bush turned his back on Fox’s immigration- reform ideas as a threat to U.S. border security. Mexico was all but forgotten in the U.S. — until late 2002, when the country opposed Bush’s Iraq war plan in the United Nations Security Council. Mexicans, whose foreign-policy attitudes are staunchly noninterventionist, applauded Fox — but Bush took it as a betrayal and virtually blacklisted the Mexican leader.”

Ø Prodi: Iraq Divided Europe. “If Europe had been present and united, I believe, we would not have seen the war on Iraq,” Prodi said, adding “Then we would have managed to find a solution to preserve the peace.” <http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1465062,00.html>

IRAQ IS IN SHAMBLES, AND GEORGE BUSH HAS NO PLAN TO WIN THE PEACE.

§ Bush Rushed To War With No Plan To Win The Peace. In August 2003, the Joint Chiefs of Staff prepared a secret report assessing the post-war planning for Iraq. The report blamed “setbacks in Iraq on a flawed and rushed war-planning process.” It also said “planners were not given enough time” to plan for reconstruction. A New York Times report found that, “A yearlong State Department study predicted many of the problems that have plagued the American-led occupation of Iraq.” The study was produced by experts on Iraq from various fields, yet “several officials said that many of the findings in the $5 million study were ignored by Pentagon officials” until after the war. Several administration officials and Bush himself have admitted to a “miscalculation” of what postwar conditions would be. David Kay, former head of the Iraq Survey Group, believes the administration’s plans for locating and securing Iraqi WMD were “practically useless” and it was “not a task that the military planned to take on or gave a high priority to.” The Schlesinger Report, commissioned by the Pentagon, found that the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison were not just the failure of some individuals to follow known standards, and they are more than the failure of a few leaders to enforce proper discipline. There is both institutional and personal responsibility at higher levels” and said the administration had failed to plan for such a large population of prisoners.

§ Bush Can’t Fix the Mess He Made – He Even Said “Knowing What I Know Today, I Would Have Made the Same Decision.” “We didn’t find the stockpiles we thought would be there -- that we all thought would be there. But Saddam Hussein had the capability of making weapons and he could have passed that capability on to the enemy. And that is a risk we could not afford to take after September 11th, 2001. Knowing what I know today, I would have made the same decision. And America and the world are safer with Saddam Hussein sitting in a prison cell.

§ Military Leaders: George Bush Sent Troops To Iraq Without Proper Protection.

Ø “In reference to armored vests, there was a shortage. … This is a long-term problem that should have been fixed, however, well before the Iraq war started.”

Ø “I visited one of these units in December that was getting ready to deploy. That was December, they were deploying in January, and they were short basic equipment: radios, vests, armored Humvees, et cetera. We're better than that as a nation, and we're better than that as a military.”

Ø “Everybody had flack jackets and some body armor, but not the new body armor. They showed us the schedule, and said it was going to be done. They were short at that time, I believe, around 1,400 up-armored Humvees that were coming into the country … it does leave you wondering why couldn't we have done this before the war, and we simply didn't.”

Ø Could not “answer for the record why we started this war with protective vests that were in short supply.”

BUSH-CHENEY CREDIBILITY GAP

VOICEOVER: “A global test? So America will be forced to wait while threats gather? President Bush believes decisions about protecting America should be made in the Oval Office, not foreign capitals.”

GEORGE BUSH’S FAILURE TO COUNTER CRITICAL GATHERING THREATS

THE THREAT OF TERRORISM.

§ Bush Not Facing Reality that Taliban And Al Qaeda Are Resurging, Country Is Reverting to a Terrorist Breeding Ground: According to the operational commander of U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan, Maj. Gen. Eric Olson, the “Taliban has regrouped and sustained an insurgency across the south and east of the country” and is supported by foreign fighters. The New York Times reported that “new evidence suggests that is regenerating and bringing in new blood.” “Relatively high ranking” members of the Taliban and Al Qaeda have been holding a series of meetings in Pakistan for discussions on how to disrupt the October elections, according to the U.S. military. And the United Nations warns that Afghanistan is on the brink of again becoming a terrorist breeding ground.

§ Violence Against Americans in Afghanistan is Increasing: More than twice as many Americans have been killed in combat already in 2004 than in all of 2003.

THE THREAT OF NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION.

§ North Korea And Iran Building Nuclear Capacity As Bush Administration Struggles to Create Any Plan to Solve the Problems Diplomatically. Recently, North Korea announced that it has turned the plutonium from 8,000 spent nuclear fuel rods into nuclear weapons to serve as a deterrent against increasing U.S. nuclear threats. Furthermore, the IAEA recently reported that Iran may have enough nuclear material to produce 4 nuclear bombs. “The International Atomic Energy Agency, a United Nations agency, said in a recent report that Iran plans to process more than 40 tons of uranium into uranium hexafluoride gas, which experts said was enough for four or five warheads. Diplomats have told The Associated Press that Iran also is planning to restart some of its centrifuges.”

§ North Korean Nuclear Capability Has Quadrupled Under Bush’s Watch While He Sat By and Failed to Do Anything. The Bush administration's erratic handling of the North Korean nuclear crisis has served only to create confusion and put North Korea's despotic leader, Kim Jong Il, in the driver's seat. Bush initially said he would “not tolerate nuclear weapons in North Korea,” yet since he took office, North Korea’s nuclear capability has “quadrupled,” with U.S. intelligence services estimating that Pyongyang now has fuel for up to eight nuclear weapons. According to Bush Administration officials, “The United States has determined that North Korea is working on new ballistic missile systems designed to deliver nuclear warheads and that it is testing the technology by proxy in Iran.”

THE FACTS ON JOHN KERRY’S RECORD

JOHN KERRY WILL AGGRESSIVELY COUNTER THE THREAT OF TERRORISM.

§ John Kerry Will Focus The War On Terror On The Most Urgent National Security Challenges. “The most urgent national security challenge we face is the war against those who attacked our country on September 11th, the war against Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda,” Kerry said. “As president, I will fight a tougher, smarter, more effective war on terror. My priority will be to find and capture or kill the terrorists before they get us – and I will never take my eye off the ball…George Bush made Saddam Hussein the priority..I would have made Osama bin Laden the priority. As president, I will finish the job in Iraq and refocus our energies on the real war on terror.” John Kerry has a comprehensive strategy to win the war on terror and keep America safe.

JOHN KERRY WILL WORK TO END NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION.

§ Kerry Will Lead for Rigorous Verification of any Agreement with North Korea and Direct Negotiations. “We should have no illusions about Kim Jong II, so any agreement must have rigorous verification and lead to complete and irreversible elimination of North Korea’s nuclear weapons program. We should maintain the six party talks, but we must also be prepared to talk directly with North Korea. This problem is too urgent to allow China, or others at the table, to speak for us. And we must be prepared to negotiate a comprehensive agreement that addresses the full range of issues of concern to us and our allies.”

§ While Bush Failed to Have a Plan, Kerry Will Make it A Priority To End Nuclear Weapons Programs In North Korea, Kerry will make it a priority to end nuclear weapons programs in states like North Korea and Iran. As President, Kerry will continue the six party negotiations, but will also be prepared to talk directly with North Korea. John Kerry would adopt a comprehensive approach based on the hard realities that confront us. While Kerry would maintain all options, including military ones, he would be willing to negotiate on a range of issues of concern to both parties, including North Korea’s concerns for its security and economic development. ,

§ John Kerry Has the Conviction and Leadership To Keep Terrorists From Acquiring Nuclear Materials. He will: Secure and Reduce Nuclear Stockpiles. Kerry’s plan will safeguard existing stockpiles of nuclear weapons and materials in the former Soviet Union within four years, create an international partnership to establish and enforce an international standard for the safe custody of nuclear weapons and materials, safeguard nuclear materials at research reactors around the world, and reduce existing stockpiles of nuclear weapons and materials; (2) Institute a Verifiable Global Ban on the Production of New Bomb Making Materials. A Kerry administration will end production of fissile materials for use in nuclear weapons through a Fissile Material Cut-Off Treaty with real verification mechanisms; (3) Lead an International Effort to End Nuclear Weapons Programs in Iran and North Korea; and (4) Strengthen the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT).

Bush & Co. Have a Long, Proud History of Taking Kerry’s Words Out of Context

Bush Makes Things Up Regularly. “There is one good thing about President Bush's new advertisement showing John Kerry windsurfing: Kerry does enjoy windsurfing. That alone puts the ad on a higher plane of truthfulness than many of the statements the president regularly makes on the campaign trail. A press corps that relentlessly nitpicked Al Gore in 2000 in search of "little lies" and exaggerations has given Bush wide latitude to make things up. I guess the incumbent benefits from the soft bigotry of low expectations.”

Republican Attacks "At Best Selective and In Many Cases Stripped Of Their Context." "Speakers at this week's Republican convention have relentlessly attacked John F. Kerry for statements he has made and votes he has taken in his long political career, but a number of their specific claims -- such as his votes on military programs -- are at best selective and in many cases stripped of their context, according to a review of the documentation provided by the Bush campaign."
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. He'll explain himself
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 06:39 PM by BrentTaylor
I'm sure one of the town hall questions will ask it......Its not a bad statement. But it can be twisted and turned.

The repukes internal polling is obviously showing Kerry winning thats why their taking the one thing they can out of that debate and going on a major offensive
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Minimus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. global = comprehensive
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. Then COUNTER it instead of caving in like a baby. The work this nation
does should be for the GOOD OF ALL, NOT the good of ONE.

That's ALL that needs to be said.

We are a global community now, whether you like it or not. What WE do and the actions WE take MUST be accountable to everyone ON this planet.

For the GOOD OF ALL, NOT the good of ONE.... just repeat that over and over.
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demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. Who cares. Small potatoes. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz yawn.
This isn't something that will resonate right now. Kerry is riding the wave baby.
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Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. Again, it's not sticking
No worries.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. True to some extent
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 06:41 PM by fujiyama
I think what Kerry meant was a "universal test" in that if a threat is imminent the US has a clear right to act preemptively and if needed unilaterally (though if the threat is imminent it should be unecessary to act unilaterally). Overall though I don't think it will have much of an effect. Kerry really did crush Bush. That's mainly what people remember. He was calm, confident, and was very wise and informed of the issues.

He also made it clear that he would give no country a veto over American security.
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Minimus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. I took global test as how it is used in marketing , research, etc.
not as in the Globe/World
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tom22 Donating Member (240 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. YOU HAVE TO RESPOND TO
EVERY ATTACK. I CAN NOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH. YOU HAVE TO RESPOND IN THE NEWS CYCLE. GET ON THE BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. They already have an ad Out
responding
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CrowNotAngelGRL Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
37. Seriously?
Has the Kerry camp responded? :\
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
13. If a nation that takes preemptive action...
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 06:44 PM by eleny
...doesn't have a damned good reason to do it - they're in real trouble no matter how Karl Rove wants to spin it. After all, look at what's happening to America.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
15. My Global Test Response, Repeat As Necessary:
Here's the context for the so-called "global test" The 'test' isn't whether or not we should take pre-emptive action, it is whether or not the rationale for that action will stand up to scrutiny; dometstic as well as abroad. It's whether or not we are lying about the reasons for the action-- not whether or not we're "allowed" to do it.

Let's put it this way. The "global test" is like a test to see if the meat is rotten once you've bought it.. not whether or not you should go to the store.

Here's the context:

No president, though all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.

But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.

Here we have our own secretary of state who has had to apologize to the world for the presentation he made to the United Nations.

KERRY: I mean, we can remember when President Kennedy in the Cuban missile crisis sent his secretary of state to Paris to meet with DeGaulle. And in the middle of the discussion, to tell them about the missiles in Cuba, he said, "Here, let me show you the photos." And DeGaulle waved them off and said, "No, no, no, no. The word of the president of the United States is good enough for me."

How many leaders in the world today would respond to us, as a result of what we've done, in that way? So what is at test here is the credibility of the United States of America and how we lead the world. And Iran and Iraq are now more dangerous -- Iran and North Korea are now more dangerous.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. Kerry was Wise for Saying Global Test
The majority of Americans wanted global consensus before we attacked Iraq. Bush ignored us.
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tom22 Donating Member (240 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Bush's attack on this issue
made the evening news. The Kerry response if any, did not. This was a screw up.
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. I thought in the back of my mind
that even though Kerry said the "global test", I was certain he was wanting to say smell test, but could not use such an earthy metaphor regarding the run-up to the war. Even still, he's absolutely correct on the global test verbage anyway, as above posters have noted.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
17.  Kerry campaign needs to not let this sit unanswered. I think they know it
"Global test" is another word for the "legitimacy"--the legitimacy which comes from the American people, along with our global allies, being able to trust the word of the president--something Bush and Cheney have forever squandered.

Bush/Cheney have proved that it is incredibly stupid to go it alone in Iraq. The U.S. is bearing 90% of the costs of this war, approaching $200 billion, and 90% of the casualties, now over 1000--let alone the over 7,000 injured, many greviously.

As John Kerry said long ago, "The United States should never go to war because it wants to, only when it has to." George Bush has utterly failed that "credibility test" by misleading this nation to an unnecessary war.
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mumon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
19. Bull
This is handily debunked just by readin g what Kerry actually said for example, in my slapping down of Neal Boortz attempting that stupidity.
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
21. Here
read this. If anyone else thinks it was a "brain fart" explain it to them. It wasn't a brain fart, it was the truth.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x954250
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Minimus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. as I stated above "global test" is a term used in business
marketing, research, etc. that basically means comprehensive.

the bush people and freepers are trying to say it means get the world's permission.

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tom22 Donating Member (240 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. It's irrelevant if it's the
truth. You have to respond immediately. You have to crush every attack! Did we learn nothing from the Swift Boat crap?
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. If JK said "blue sky" or "chocolate chip cookies" the RW media
would not do anything to correct *'s lies about what Kerry actually said.

The Republicans will distort ANYTHING he says--or make up something altogether. If we had a functioning media in this country, they'd be called on it. But we don't. Kerry can't let that keep him from saying what he wants to say. He and Edwards will just have to take their opportunities in the debates to point out the lies.
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MatrixEscape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
25. Tide Turned
To me, Kerry's deportment and skills turned the tide. That is, he steered the boat to issues while Bush was still on his slur tirade.

I strongly feel that the Bush campaign is rapidly losing momentum with their attack stategy. If they keep up with the vacuous attacks and nitpicking aimed at Kerry, they wear their own strategy out and it turns against them. People bore easily and too much of something becomes annoying and starts to lose its punch.

What might have been seen by some as credulous from an Incumbent,(especially by people who are not well-versed on Bush's true, overall record) is now backfiring.

I am glad we have a new direction instigated now! Even though it is late in the game, I feel the debate worked to finally shift focus on issues.

Can Bush/Rove succeed when forced to rely primarily on essential issues, or will they "stay the course"? ;) That is, when they have a failed Administration with a demonstrably poor record and an increasingly chaotic situation at home and abroad?
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
26. You're wasting your breath -- most DU'ers just don't get it
I posted almost immediately when I heard Kerry utter these words. And I agree, it was an incredibly stupid comment. The test for whether you engage in preemptive war is NOT whether the global community agrees with you. It's whether you have solid evidence that the target poses an IMMINENT threat to the U.S.. That's all Kerry needed to say. No matter how you look at it, the CIA reports did not show Iraq to be an imminent threat. A potential threat if left unchecked, sure, but not an imminent threat.
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
28. Frankly,as a non-American, I welcome the conciliatory, honest
Edited on Sat Oct-02-04 08:04 PM by Iceburg
and wise tone set by Kerry. He understands that as president he has a huge job ahead of him to regain the trust of both Americans and non-Americans alike. Bush has squandered the trust when he misled his country and others into a pre-emptive strike and invasion of Iraq.

In the debate, Kerry does not cede America's right for a preemptive strike but does acknowledge that the reasons for strike must be understood by both Americans and non-Americans alike: the stakeholders will know what the intention is, why it is necessary, and will be offered "legitimate" proof prior to a strike.


-----------------------------------------
From the transcript ...

LEHRER: New question. Two minutes, Senator Kerry.
What is your position on the whole concept of preemptive war?

KERRY: The president always has the right, and always has had the right, for preemptive strike. That was a great doctrine throughout the Cold War. And it was always one of the things we argued about with respect to arms control. No president, through all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America. But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.

Here we have our own secretary of state who has had to apologize to the world for the presentation he made to the United Nations.
I mean, we can remember when President Kennedy in the Cuban missile crisis sent his secretary of state to Paris to meet with DeGaulle. And in the middle of the discussion, to tell them about the missiles in Cuba, he said, "Here, let me show you the photos." And DeGaulle waved them off and said, "No, no, no, no. The word of the president of the United States is good enough for me."

How many leaders in the world today would respond to us, as a result of what we've done, in that way? So what is at test here is the credibility of the United States of America and how we lead the world. And Iran and Iraq are now more dangerous -- Iran and North Korea are now more dangerous.

Now, whether preemption is ultimately what has to happen, I don't know yet. But I'll tell you this: As president, I'll never take my eye off that ball. I've been fighting for proliferation the entire time -- anti-proliferation the entire time I've been in the Congress. And we've watched this president actually turn away from some of the treaties that were on the table.

You don't help yourself with other nations when you turn away from the global warming treaty, for instance, or when you refuse to deal at length with the United Nations.
You have to earn that respect. And I think we have a lot of earning back to do.

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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
29. I think Kerry is right. We made a pre-emptive strike based on false info.
This is unacceptable.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
30. To lead the free world, you must first give the world a reason to follow.
eom
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
31. THIS IS THE QUOTE FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
The president always has the right and always has had the right for pre-emptive strike. That was a great doctrine throughout the cold war. And it was always one of the things we argued about with respect to arms control. No president through all of American history has ever ceded and nor would I the right to pre-empt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.

But if and when you do it, Jim, you've got to do it in a way that passes the test. That passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing. And you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.


This is where he uses the phrase "global test" Bush is lying and lying and lying. When I saw him say that the day after the debate I started throwing stuff at tahe TV
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Barney Rocks Donating Member (746 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
32. I like it.
I think he made a bold stand and that we do need to consider global ramifications before we rush into a war. What is wrong with saying that? I am sure that people from countries all over the world were very pleased to hear that we will soon have a more responsible and responsive president in the white house.
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
33. DOOMED!
We're all doomed!

puh-leez
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. When Bush uses that for an attack, it
just shows he doesn't understand the English language, as usual.
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MontecitoDem Donating Member (542 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
35. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, we went to war with them
When one country invades another on its own whim, the world will react.

Does President Bush believe that any country in the world has the right to invade another couuntry when it decides to? If not, who is to decide when such action is justified? Mustn't there be some consensus that an invasion is justified? Those are the questions I would pose to rebut this ridiculous crap.

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sr_pacifica Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
36. I had the same reaction
"wish he hadn't said it"---just because the Bush people are going to use and abuse the phrase to their advantage.
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Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-02-04 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
38. They're been trying, but it doesn't seem to be taking...
talked with people about it, and they're all "who cares, bush was an idiot thursday. that's worse"
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