A note on Kerry's note taking during the debate

[Thurston Howell IV]

I forget who pointed this out, but Kerry made a subtle but very effective use of taking notes during the debate. Supposedly, he would take notes whenever Bush was making a strong assertion. Doing this would distract the viewer from what Bush was saying. The viewers would think, "I wonder what he's writing?" I know I did.

Apparently, the previous JFK used this effectively against Nixon. These are the kinds of things that an accomplished debater can do -- it's hard work trying to remember all the things one should do if they've not been integrated into one's understanding. Particularly if one is peeved.

[Kolesar]

1. By the rules, Mr. Kerry was not supposed to be in shot w/ shrub talking

The complicated rules of the debate said no split screens or off angle shots, but cspan and the networks did both. I bet that won't happen next time!

[Thurston Howell IV]

4. Right, but

most of the networks said before the debate that they were going to ignore that rule. So he knew he could use this technique, and he did, quite effectively.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. i disagree that this was a tactical move

first of all bush had zero strong points. he had a very good sound bites. secondly kerry debated in college and this is what academic debaters do

[Thurston Howell IV]

42. An obvious partisan viewpoint

Bush had ** no ** strong points? Hmmmm...Well, I guess Kerry can sit back and let the election victory roll on in.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

44. ok what is his strongpoint.

and i'd like to remind you that this is the DEMOCRATIC undergroung...obviously i am partisan

[Thurston Howell IV]

45. I'm a partisan too.

Bush must be stopped, on that we agree. In past posts, I've referred to him in derogatory ways, also very partisan. However, asserting that he made no strong points during the debate doesn't seem very helpful in beating this guy -- we misunderestimate him at our own peril.

I agree with Kerry that Iraq was the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time. However, that creates a couple of problems. If we're claiming the water is full of sewage, saying "come join us for a swim" is problematic, ie, how do we get international support for our efforts in Iraq?

Also, pointing out that things are getting worse there, and it was a mistake to begin with, might be problematic in terms of how the troops on the ground right now feel about a job which requires they risk their life.

Finally, Kerry needs to deal with the "global test" charge, and not ignore it like the Swift Boat liars fiasco.

No doubt, there are several good responses Kerry can make to these charges, but they need to be dealt with.

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

48. I agree and now that Kerry

is a head in polls and people are watching the debate's he needs to clear up the flipflopping thing too. Today at my church after the college class was over my brother and I were talking to a friend of mine about the debate's (she didn't watch) and said Kerry was a flipflopper. We were talking about something else and flipflops came up dealing with Kerry. I've been following Kerry for the past couple month's and haven't heard him flipflop. :shrug:

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

47. I agree and Kerry was

more than likely writing down notes. Bush on the other hand, who knows?

[clydefrand]

7. I'll bet C-Span will IF * doesn't back out of the debates

C-Span says they can do their job; we will do ours!

[Racenut20]

11. Fox said ahead of time they would not abide by not showing that.

Knowing Roger's mode, he was probably hoping to catch something like Gores impatience while "swashbucklin George" was smoozing the great unwashed. I guess it backfired. But now, Shrub*'s boys & girls can refuse to debate if the continue to show it, like the rules say they can, or more importantly force them not to do it and Fox would agree because it backfired.

[Thurston Howell IV]

13. It will be interesting to see what Bush does in response...

to the rule bending/breaking. Did he break a rule when he began responding to Kerry's rebuttal without Lehrer's initial approval? Lehrer basically let Bush go, since Bush was so agitated and felt he had to respond.

[Kolesar]

19. Yeah, where's the criticism of Bush breaking in at least 4 times?

If Gore did that, that would be all they talked about.

I think Racenut20 got it right that Fox/Ailes was trying to game the debate. Mr. Kerry was soooo cool. He could have been a gunfighter in a Western movie.

[readmylips]

2. Georgie was crapping his pants every time he saw Kerry...

taking notes. That was very effective for Kerry.

[Tansy_Gold]

31. Because George can't write that fast. . . .

. . . .even when he's not thinking.

He can't think and listen and write at the same time.

Hell, he can't do a lot of things NOT at the same time.

[gardenista]

34. Did you notice that Georgie started taking notes, too? He thought

he could look intelligent, too, but we all know what he was writing on his widdle pad.

[mitchum]

38. Yes, and I'm surprised that bush didn't put on "Hollywood smart person...

glasses" with the non-prescription lenses :)

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

49. LOL I noticed that too

about Bush. He started writing things down a good bit after the debate started while Kerry had been doing it since the beginning.

[clydefrand]

3. I hope he saved those notes for posterity!

I'd love to see what he wrote, wouldn't you? It was reported that * took notes, but I didn't notice that. He was probably playing tic tac toe while Kerry was talking to calm himself down or drawing stick figures of his family back on the ranch!!

[Thurston Howell IV]

5. Jon Stewart said

Kerry wrote "I am so crushing this guy!"

[demwing]

16. My 15 year old son doesn't believe Bushwas really taking notes.

He said it looked like he was drawing stick figures, probably of he and Kerry, with little knives in Kerry's head, etc...

[MockSwede]

41. Doodles

Probably writing "I want my mommy! I want my mommy! I want my mommy!" OR "I want my Cheney! I want my Cheney! I want my Cheney!" Like the little man/child that he is.

[girl gone mad]

17. I think they said something like:

"I can't believe how much I am owning this guy."

;)

[BOSSHOG]

6. Its hard work taking Notes!

[clydefrand]

12. It's hard work standing up there listening

to your butt being chewed up, too. But I can do it! I work hard for this country. It's hard work. And don't send any more mexed missages. What will Poland think?

[patricia92243]

8. Good point. Note taking also helped him not make negative facial

expressions or body english - like Bush did. Kerry loked at his notes - Bush puffed up like the spoiled child he is.

[Philostopher]

9. It's probably also a technique to throw Bush* off.

I posted in another thread -- I imagine Kerry has 'a guy' who's on this, telling him what kind of psychologial/kinetic techniques will throw off his opponent. Taking notes would say 'I'm watching you!' very effectively to an opponent. Especially if he did it at times Bush* didn't think he was doing anything especially effective.

[JI7]

10. it also made Kerry look like he was paying attention

you know in class during a lecture the students who are taking notes always seem the ones paying attention . the ones who just sit there and especially if they make weird looks on their face as bush did look like they don't care and just want to get out of there.

[clydefrand]

15. I'm like Kerry; I have to take notes BUT

it's because I can't remember a damn thing any more! Too many senior moments.

[zaj]

14. Bush was taking notes too...

[girl gone mad]

18. I thought of Bush..

drawing smiley faces or a picture of Kerry with an anvil over his head. They should add "It's hard work!" and "Don't forget Poland."

[clydefrand]

22. I love it!

I hope it was ok to send it to several friends! Reminds me of a student that I had several years ago who draw pictures of me with red ink. I was the devil with long red hair and red nails. I loved the kid, but he thought I was a devil when I got on his case.

[underpants]

23. As Stephanie pointed out in the "Bushisms" thread yesterday

W only started doing that half way through and repeatedly looked up and out into the audience while doing it.



Stephanie post #39 "Bush's toodles" here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=944165


If you noticed early on, moron wasn't writing down a thing, but Kerry was making notes left and right. I then noticed that moron started writing things. I think he thought to himself, "self, I have to look like I'm doing something here, Kerry is about to finish a book over there".

Also was it just me or did it seem like towards the end of the debate, moron kept looking out to the audience, then he would scribble a little, look again, scribble some more, etc...

[ibegurpard]

25. Yeah, I noticed that.

Kerry seemed to be using it as a psych-out technique very effectively. Bush started to copy it but it just didn't come across as real.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

26. He was sketching (in all senses of the word) n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

35. LOL!

"self, I have to look like I'm doing something here, Kerry is about to finish a book over there". OMG, that is so funny.

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

51. He also was probably

wanting to tell a joke or something so bad. Of course the audience couldn't respond so that'd be funny. lol. It'd be him telling a joke, he'd laugh and then you'd hear the crickets and Leher looking at him like "is he for real?" lol.

[Born_A_Truman]

39. On C-Span, after the stage cleared...

I noticed that someone quickly went to Bush's podium and grabbed his notes and exited the stage in a hurry.

I didn't see anyone go to Kerry's podium.

[mitchum]

40. LOL!!!

nice work :)

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

50. LOL better not show

the picture of Laura to anybody. LOL. :eyes: I like the "debating is hard" one. And using the WF sign.

[dogtag]

20. TV networks are not signers on the 32 page agreement.

They are not 'breaking' any rules because they didn't agree to follow any in the first place.

[jefferson_dem]

21. I couldn't help tranforming JK to the Jeopardy stage

scribbling down that "final answer" with success!

Seriously, Kerry was clearly more polished in every single stylistic aspectof that debate. And this matters, people! How many times have you heard the phrase "presidential" attached to our guy after his ace performance. Especially when contrasted with *'s drunken babbling, bumbling, and stuttering.

[GoldenOldie]

30. Bush's note taking???

I observed that when he became nervous while Kerry was speaking, he kept flipping papers as tho he was looking for a good response to pop up. He was so completely unaware that he appeared to be fumbling with the papers which appeared to have random chicken scratchs on both sides of the paper. I wondered why none of the talking heads/political analysts(?), pointed that out.

[wyldwolf]

24. shhhhhhhhh!

Don't give away the secrets!

[ochazuke]

28. Meanwhile, Bush drank water 15 times.

Although for that trick to mean anything, Cheney should have been the one drinking water while Bush was talking.

[underpants]

33. I loved the shot of him tipping back the glass

He looked like someone polishing off the last before they had to go home to the "old lady"

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

52. Do you think

with Bush drinking all the water he had to go to the bathroom really bad afterwards? I wonder if he wanted to just run backstage and go badly. He drank so much. :eyes:

[Sparkly]

29. Yes -- my husband's theory is that Kerry writes something to stay focused

and to keep from getting too pissed off at Chimp.

[gospelized]

32. i noticed

bush only started doing it like half-way thru.

my favorite part was when he was taking notes during Kerry's closing statements. as if he was going to rebute them?

[Davis_X_Machina]

36. Kerry took notes because ...

... he's a trained debater, from HS onwards.

He was trained, as all my debaters were trained, to take notes because in debate, if you get up and say "My opponent said X", and he did not in fact say X, you lose the round right there.

You can pull that shit in a stump speech, but not in debate.

Think about it.

There are only two reasons why one would say "My opponent said X" when he did not in fact say X, and they're both lethal.

A. You're a liar -- and ipso facto a lousy debater -- you lose.
B. You weren't listening -- and ipso facto a lousy debater -- you lose.

Novice HS debaters learn this in September of freshman year: 'Flow or die, baby, flow or die.'

Against my own sophomores, George Bush wouldn't make it into rebuttals -- and as a judge I would have stopped taking notes, capped my pen and just watched (a very bad sign from a judge) after 20 minutes.

[girl gone mad]

46. At least Bush gave you a good educational tool.

Play the tape for your students in a "what not to do" lecture.

[Dr Fate]

37. Kerry smiled & took notes-as if inviting the next challenge...

While Bush hunched & grimaced.

Is this how they act when they are under fire?

Probably so.

[Sparkly]

43. You're right, he looked confident the entire time

He'd put his pen down with a look that said, "I'm ready."

[CrowNotAngelGRL]

53. I loved how after Kerry

wrote something down he'd look over, nod and smile sweetly. Hehe. :bounce: