Wow. Pat Buchanen nailed what happened with Bush last night.

[gatorboy]

He talked about how Bush is used to speaking in front of these crowds that adore him. Crowds that are pre-screened of course. So when Bush speaks he knows he'll get the cheers he needs.

With the debate, he started with the first 20 minutes, using the same sound bites that bring him his cheers at rallies. But he didn't get his cheers. Just silence. And he broke down. He couldn't handle it without the applause. He couldn't stand not having a crowd that would fawn over him.

Which is pathetic when you think about it. He needs this canned, pre-arranged adoration that he'll only get from the faithful. He is terrified to speak if he's not going to be adored. How could anyone vote for this guy?

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Same crowd that voted for Nixon

I am not surprsied Pat got it, he saw this with Nixon as well

[Robert Oak]

2. Yup, the great Propaganda machine crashes

Ya know, I get the feeling that Bush knows he's full of shit...
that his whole agenda isn't actually his ideas and why he can't
talk about it beyond sound bytes.

I sure hope the debate performance wakes up America and they
"look behind the curtain" instead of the great powerful Oz.

[SammyWinstonJack]

37. Of course bush* knows he's full of shit

But what does that matter? He doesn't care what we think, he never has and never will. And to top it off, he knows full well that everything it takes to put him back in the WH, is in place. 10's of 1000's of voters are being disenfranchised around the Country. Most aren't even aware that they are being thrown off voter rolls, or that their voter registration forms are being tossed out for various reasons. And we haven't even discussed the rigged voting machines.And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Bush* was pissed during the debates only because he hates to be criticized, he can't stand it. The power of the Presidency to which he wasn't elected, has gone to his head. He believes he will be returned to power and why not? Given just the few examples of voter disenfranchisement cited above, I can understand why he feels that way. :argh:

[saracat]

3. I know people will flame this but sometimes

I almost like Pat. He is usually consistant and somewhat rational about expressing his viewpoints. At least he isn't a fundie.This is one of those times I like what he says!

[RoyGBiv]

8. Pat ...

The thing about Buchanan is that he's a traditional conservative, and traditional conservatives despise neo-cons. I do NOT like him, but there is something to be said for a person being able and willing to articulate his principles in the face of party pressure not to do so.

Contrast this to McCain, who is far more moderate. Sure, he said one or two complimentary things about Kerry, but he refuses to stand behind his actual principles.

There is a lot of tension building within the Republican party. When Shrub loses, the Repubs better hope party leadership has a plan in place to handle the fallout, or they could face a split that would dwarf what happened to the Democrats in the late 70's/early 80's.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

21. McCain is not "far more moderate."

His voting record puts him to the right of Santorum. Watch what he does, not what, or how, he says it.

[RoyGBiv]

47. I have no McCain illusions ...

And I know what you're saying.

I only say that because of various comments Buchanan has made over the years related to his views on race.

[chaumont58]

59. I never signed on to the McCain bullshit

Back in 2000, when so many people were just enraputured with this guy, I could only shake my head. He was and is a right wing senator from a right-to-work state. He ran as an outsider but has been in DC since he got back from POW status. He was congresssional liaison to the US Navy during his last years on active duty. He was then elected to the House as a repuke from Arizona, and after that was elected US Senator from Arizona. He is about as much an outsider as Sally Quinn. Just to show you how crazy people inside the beltway get, Eric Alterman wanted John Kerry to choose him as his running mate this year. That's maybe the craziest god damn thing I have ever heard a supposedly smart left leaning commentator make. Fuck all good Democrats, choose a repuke! In god damn credible.

[shrub chipper]

22. I don't like Pat, either.

At least,though, he is willing to stand up and say when the Repubs do something against his principles, unlike McVain.

I really despise McVain and Powell now that they are proven traitors to THEIR principles.

[belle]

38. I don't like *or* trust Buchanan, but I do respect him-more than these

bozos, certainly. He does seem to have some principles. Of course, some of his principles would involve me and mine being deprived of most basic civil rights--there are times when the man sounds positively National Socialist--but in this case, he's absolutely correct. Bush is a narcissist. He doesn't stand for anything other than fawning underlings stroking his ego, and when he doesn't get that, he just has no idea at all.

[fearnobush]

10. Pat is a Libertarian. Libertarians really dispise the Repukes these days.

Here is a quote from Pat's book, Check out how much he loves the GOP these days.

"The Republican party, which had presided over America’s rise to manufacturing pre-eminence, has acquiesced in the deindustrialisation of the nation to gratify transnational corporations whose oligarchs are the party’s financiers. US corporations are shutting factories here, opening them in China, ‘outsourcing’ back-office work to India, importing Asians to take white-collar jobs from Americans, and hiring illegal aliens for their service jobs. The Republican party has signed off on economic treason."

However make no mistake, Pat is no liberal, but he does share some common ground as the above rhetoric could easily be mistaken as written by one of us.


<http://www.lewrockwell.com/spectator/spec396.html>

[nightperson]

11. Rockwell is a libertarian, Buchanan is not.

Rockwell is very anti-Bush (“I have this in common with NPR, Michael Moore, (and) the Black Caucus: a burning desire to see George Bush's fingers pried loose from the levers of power.”), Buchanan is all over the place. Apparently, Buchanan did call in to the Imus show:

Pat Buchanan called into Don Imus' show and said that Sen. John Kerry turned in an "almost flawless performance as a debater."

He said he thought he looked "presidential," "poised," "crisp," and "effective." ...

now he thinks Kerry's campaign has been "ignited" and that "his people are going to be energized and excited when Kerry goes out there."

[dave123williams]

12. "Politics makes strange bedfellows"....

I know quite a few people to the right of center who are TOTALLY MORTIFIED at how this gang of bozos had played fast and loose with the Constitution. They consider him in much the same way many of us do...a dangerously loose cannon at on the ship of state.

[MattNC]

29. Pat is a traditional conservative

not a neocon that so engulfs that party today.

[dave123williams]

50. What's weird is that the guy now looks moderate, compared to * & Co.

[msanthrope]

56. I know we are on the other side of the looking glass when ...

I start agreeing with Bat Pukeanon on ANYTHING......

[Elidor]

35. I know what you mean

Some of his views are despicable, but he can surprise you at times. Hunter Thompson considers him a close friend. :crazy:

Pat pointed out during Fiasco 2000 that there was no way that 5% of his national vote total came from Jews in Palm Beach. He publicly said that Gore got screwed. But before I consider him a truth-teller, I have to remember he was a speechwriter for Nixon.

[donco6]

42. I won't flame you.

Unlike a lot of other conservative shills, I truly think Pat speaks exactly what he believes, rather than what he's told to say. I can respect that.

I can also argue with it! But I think you would get a good debate out of Pat.

[SayitAintSo]

46. Haven't you heard him SLIME Kerry ???

While I appreciate Pat's lapses into rational thinking ... I can't forget the times he unabashedly slimes Kerry and the Dems and shills for Bush. Nope can't forget it ...

[blondeatlast]

55. Thanks for NOT drinking the Kool-Aid. Sheesh.

He's a neo-Nazi asshole, period.

[Lugnut]

48. No flame from this end.

It hate it when that happens. I never thought I'd see the day that I'd agree with Buchanan.

[TexasSissy]

49. At least he's not up for sale. He says what he thinks. But make no

mistake about it...he's a Repub. So people shouldn't get angry when he acts like a Repub. Some people get furious with McCain 'cause he seems fair and balanced sometimes, then supports Bush's campaign. Well...duh...he's a Repub. Nothing to get angry about. He supports his party, just like we like Dems, even moderate ones, to support OUR party.

I like Buchanan, too, though. I try to watch The McLaughlin Group every week (on PBS..it comes on at 10:30 Sunday mornings here); Pat Buchanan is a regular. Great show!

[leeroysphitz]

53. Whoops... n/t

[blondeatlast]

54. At least he isn't a fundie? ARE YOU SERIOUS??? That makes him okayz in

your book???

He's a flake unilateralist, isolationist, racist, wing-nut who speaks well.

Bunnypants is consistent, too, ya know.

HE IS NOT ON OUR SIDE. HE IS NOT VOTING FOR KERRY. HE HAS NOTHING OF VALUE TO OFFER US.

He's the RW version of Nader.

I'm sick of seeing that hate-spewing asshole DEFENDED on DU, and I will happily contest it anytime I see it.

[WillyT]

4. Oh Heck Man... Pat Was Just Reading My Post From Last Night !!!

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=928862

:hi::silly::hi:

[gatorboy]

7. Heh!!! Pat is using you for talking points!

Think up something nice and juicy for him. :D

[TrustingDog]

5. All this is deliberate.

set the world on fire, PNACer style.
how better than to have the most ignorant man at the helm.

[DrZhivago]

9. exactly

Most republicans don't really comprehend just yet that the neocons were pulling a hit-and-run all along. Their contingency play was to get in and take as much as they could then get out. I'm willing to bet the're surprised they came this far and got away with so much. The debate was the first nail in the coffin and they know it. Pretty soon all the rest of the republicans will realize the're aboard a sinking ship and start distancing themselves just in case. Its happening already.

[pss]

40. And unfortunately...

...John Kerry is gonna be the guy who lets them get away with it.

[DeepModem Mom]

6. Any psychologist DUers with knowledge of narcissism?

If so, please comment --

[MichiganVote]

15. All alcoholics have a problem w/narcissism

Goerge Bush is no exception. However, what is unique about George Bush from a psychological standpoint is that his narcissism is home grown (his very wealthy family, father's connections). In addition, the all inclusive club think that Goerge Bush's family supports among themselves is replicated in the current administration. Narcissism relies on a rewrite of reality to suit one's wants or perceived needs. The entire Bush clan en masse indulge daily at that trough.

[DeepModem Mom]

18. Thanks, MV -- very interesting --

I've written more than once in posts that the Bush family seems to think they own our White House. I know they thought it inappropriate for someone with Bill Clinton's roots to be there. My guess is that Barbara Bush is the lead feeder at the "trough" you reference, and she apparently had the most important role in shaping W.

[MichiganVote]

63. A case of the old emotional incest. Classic in alcoholics

[belle]

39. Not (yet) a psychologist, but I know narcissism fairly well...

This website is a good primer, I think:

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/

Traits discussed

The most telling thing that narcissists do is contradict themselves. They will do this virtually in the same sentence, without even stopping to take a breath. It can be trivial (e.g., about what they want for lunch) or it can be serious (e.g., about whether or not they love you). When you ask them which one they mean, they'll deny ever saying the first one, though it may literally have been only seconds since they said it -- really, how could you think they'd ever have said that? You need to have your head examined! They will contradict FACTS. They will lie to you about things that you did together. They will misquote you to yourself. If you disagree with them, they'll say you're lying, making stuff up, or are crazy.

Lacking empathy is a profound disturbance to the narcissist's thinking (cognition) and feeling (affectivity). Even when very intelligent, narcissists can't reason well. One I've worked with closely does something I characterize as "analysis by eggbeater." They don't understand the meaning of what people say and they don't grasp the meaning of the written word either -- because so much of the meaning of anything we say depends on context and affect, narcissists (lacking empathy and thus lacking both context and affect) hear only the words. (Discussions with narcissists can be really weird and disconcerting; they seem to think that using some of the same words means that they are following a line of conversation or reasoning. Thus, they will go off on tangents and irrelevancies, apparently in the blithe delusion that they understand what others are talking about.) And, frankly, they don't hear all the words, either. They can pay attention only to stuff that has them in it. This is not merely a bad habit -- it's a cognitive deficiency. Narcissists pay attention only to themselves and stuff that affects them personally. However, since they don't know what other people are doing, narcissists can't judge what will affect them personally and seem never to learn that when they cause trouble they will get trouble back. They won't take other people's feelings into consideration and so they overlook the fact that other people will react with feeling when abused or exploited and that most people get really pissed off by being lied to or lied about...



Narcissists are generally contemptuous of others. This seems to spring, at base, from their general lack of empathy, and it comes out as (at best) a dismissive attitude towards other people's feelings, wishes, needs, concerns, standards, property, work, etc. It is also connected to their overall negative outlook on life. 

Narcissists are (a) extremely sensitive to personal criticism and (b) extremely critical of other people. They think that they must be seen as perfect or superior or infallible, next to god-like (if not actually divine, then sitting on the right hand of God) -- or else they are worthless. There's no middle ground of ordinary normal humanity for narcissists. They can't tolerate the least disagreement...

Narcissists are totally and inflexibly authoritarian. In other words, they are suck-ups. They want to be authority figures and, short of that, they want to be associated with authority figures. In their hearts, they know they can't think well, have no judgment about what matters, are not connected with the world they inhabit, so they cling fanatically to the opinions of people they regard as authority figures -- such as their parents, teachers, doctors, ministers. Where relevant, this may include scientists or professors or artists, but narcissists stick to people they know personally...

Narcissists have strange work habits. Normal people work for a goal or a product, even if the goal is only a paycheck. Normal people measure things by how much they have to spend (in time, work, energy) to get the desired results. Normal people desire idleness from time to time, usually wanting as much free time as they can get to pursue their own thoughts and pleasures and interests. Narcissists work for a goal, too, but it's a different goal: they want power, authority, adulation...This is partly because they have so little empathy that they don't know why some work is valued more highly than other work, why some people's opinions carry more weight than others'. They do know that you're supposed to work and not be lazy, so they keep themselves occupied. But they are not invested in the work they do -- whatever they may produce is just something they have to do to get the admiration and power they crave. Since this is so, they really don't pay attention to what they're doing, preferring the easiest thing at every turn, even though they may be constantly occupied, so that narcissists manage to be workaholics and extremely lazy at the same time...

Narcissists are noted for their negative, pessimistic, cynical, or gloomy outlook on life. Sarcasm seems to be a narcissistic specialty, not to mention spite.

Narcissists are impulsive. They undo themselves by behavior that seems oddly stupid for people as intelligent as they are. Somehow, they don't consider the probable consequences of their actions.

[DeepModem Mom]

41. Thanks, belle -- I read the entire link, and the shoe seems to fit...

W in a lot of places.

[WoodrowFan]

61. sound slike Ollie North too.

as well as a few RWers I used to work with....

[KlatooBNikto]

13. If the debate were held in Baghdad,in the "Green Zone",of course,

Bush wouldn't have had this problem because he would have been certain to get the applause plus would have to fend off all the people who would throw roses and flowers at him.

May be Kerry can be in America and Bush can be in Baghdad delivering his turkeys.

[Disturbed]

14. Kerry needs to win the next two debates.

He also needs to explain his Iraq plan in simple terms. Hammering on w's incompetence is the best offense strategy.

[MockSwede]

62. Turkeys

Bush is delivering them every day.......

[MoonRiver]

16. Reminds me of the danger of never exposing young kids to germs.

This, of course, mainly occurs in affluent families which can afford to sanitize everything and keep their children isolated from dirt and the great unwashed. Of course, they have no immunity built up like their poorer roughnecks contemporaries, and can fall prey all kinds of diseases when they finally have to go to school and/or get out in the "real world". Little pampered georgie is now experiencing his first true exposure to the germy side of life and is suffering the effects.

[roseBudd]

17. like a washed up hasbeen rock star

[democracy eh]

19. maybe he can bring his own bubble next time

or have applause piped in through the earpiece

[Gin]

20. I think Kerry holding his hand for a second after the handshake....and

making the size difference so obvious...rattled him.....then..the mention of his father rattled him....Kerry wrote notes...that rattled him. Once he is rattled....it's downhill from there.

:)

[arewenotdemo]

51. good point about mentioning his father

I hadn't really considered the impact that particular criticism was sure to have on the War President's psyche. Since the war certainly was conceived along Oedipal lines the point must have had quite an effect, though I can't remember Bush's immediate reaction.

[rullery]

23. Pat Buchanan is something of a dinosaur

in his thinking, a throwback to the "Fortress America" conservatives of the 1930s. He admired his father and adopted his views, even to saying that Hitler was not such a bad fellow; just misunderstood.

Buchanan is very intolerant of immigrants. He would close our borders and throw out anyone who wasn't born here, if he could do that. I find his views disgusting myself.

However, in his defense, he is very honest. When he sees that Kerry is winning and Bush is losing, he says so. Buchanan does not play the spin game of making excuses. His honesty does make him more tolerable IMO.

[Rooktoven]

24. In Pat's case I think you can like the man but

despise his message, usaully. I mean, he _is_ a homophobe. BUut he is also his own man, and will say what he feels, not what he is told. In Al Franken's first book (RLIABFI) he says that when he (Al) did his firat appearances at CNN, that no one was more gracious and friendly to him than Pat Buchanan.

[Harlan James]

25. What makes Pat interesting...

...is that he speaks the kinds of truths you really never see coming from the right anymore. He has chosen to be a conservative outsider (a rarity in what is otherwise a lockstep uni-think world), and as such can pretty much say whatever he believes is right. It is the one thing that continues to make him relevant, at least in a news chat sort of way.

My guess is that Pat is gambling that with the fall of Georgie Boy his viewpoints will become fashionable in conservative circles again, rather than just an amusement for those of us who enjoy seeing such a neanderthal conservative take the occasional swing at Bush.

I hear he's off Dick Nixon's seance list, though.

[newyawker99]

28. Hi Harlan James!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Harlan James]

33. Wuzzup?

Thanks!

What a great place to yack about politics! Can't believe I'd never known about this here DU. You guys are cool!

B-)

[IdaBriggs]

57. Love your Avatar. (Welcome to DU!) nt

[robbedvoter]

26. A better man, writer - james Wolcott on it

Bush, as I wrote in Attack Poodles, went through a battery of irked expressions that ended with him imitating Tony Perkins in the final shot of Psycho, looking as if he had a fly on his nose.

Since then Bush has been wheeled out into forums where no one can dare question or contradict his majesty, where he can lean forward and repeat ad nauseam his patented soundbites. Last night I believe we saw the ugly comeback of the private face of Bush--the irritable expressions he flashes subordinates when he's presented with information he doesn't like or feels someone's taken up too much of his time or is pressed to explain himself to people he shouldn't have to explain himself to because he's the president and fuck you.

[donco6]

43. Saw all of that.

In just the first few minutes of the debate, he projected that attitude loud and clear.

I felt he was thinking: "God d*mn, I'm leading in the polls, I'm the sitting president, why the HELL do I have to be here?? Fuck Kerry! He's nothing to me."

And he's got two more to go. God, he must just be dying.

[kodi]

27. george "rocky balboa" bush ran right into John "clubber lang" Kerry

eye of the tiger george, eye of the tiger!

prediction for the next debate



PAIN!!

[sendero]

30. Buchanan...

... is a traditional conservative, which means I agree with him on a few things and disagree vehemently on others.

But I have a new-found respect for him. He is consistent, he calls it like he sees it, and a lot of his more mundane (like economic) analysis is quite astute.

I'd trade 10 soulless neocons for one Pat Buchanan any day.

[dansolo]

31. Didn't he refuse to speak in front of Parlaiment?

Unless he was guaranteed that he would be cheered.

[indie_voter]

32. He is a crazed bigot some times

However he is a consistent and does not shrink from calling it like it is.

My first glimmer of respect for him was in 2000 when he said those old Jewish women were not voting for him and he didn't like taking votes meant for Gore.

I agree with some of his positions, and have found him consistent (and right!) in his disdain for * and the neocons.

[Sparkly]

34. He's been coddled n/t

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

36. I bet he lurks here

Think about it... You don't get this kind of analysis on conservative blogs.

[question everything]

44. Reminds me of the movie "soap dish" n/t

[SayitAintSo]

45. Like his mama clapping as he potty trains ?

He just crapped all over himself on primetime - and mama wasn't there to praise and encourage him ....

[Presidentcokedupfratboy]

52. This is the Big Leagues, DUH-bya

If he can't take opposing points of view, the "man" doesn't belong in thw White House.

Not that he ever did.

[snowFLAKE]

58. Mr. Buchanan told Tweety that he was voting for the

Constitutional Party.

Check out their ideas here:

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

Then get back to us about whether he's really sane or not.

[LiberalFighter]

60. If that is the case then...

it needs to get out that the audience at the next debate will be more partisan for Kerry than gw*.

Hopefully they will at least require the audience to remain quiet during the debate like the first one.