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What if the Supremes or Diebold Install Bush Again?

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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 09:25 AM
Original message
What if the Supremes or Diebold Install Bush Again?
Edited on Mon Sep-27-04 09:26 AM by TomClash
What if a million African-americans or Democrats or hispanics or Americans Abroad are denied the right to vote?

What if the results are fixed?

Will we accept the results?

Do we refuse to recognize the legitimacy of the US Government?

What rights will that government have over the states and the people?
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. One word.
REVOLUTION
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. Really it would be two words I am thinking - Civil War
as split down the middle as this country is, it would be civil war, neighbor vs. neighbor, family member vs. family member, co workers, freinds...all fighting against each other.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. DLF - Democratic Liberation Front...
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RollergirlVT Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. and here's how
One thing the repugs seem to have forgotten is that they are Dependant upon the rest of the nation. Those that have liquid assets keep those assets invested. If in revolt we, united, pulled ALL our liquid assets out of the market and put them into a foreign market then there would be a stock market crash that would make 1929 look like childsplay. It would behave the same as a run on a bank. The best part of the plan is that there would NOTHING they could do about it. All their assets are already invested, there would be no way to compensate. All hell would break loose! In fact if just a few thousand millionaires did it on the same day before the election we could make our point. That alone would deal a crushing blow. This nation cannot function as a whole without ALL of its parts. Its revolution without bullets. Using THE most powerful weapon in America MONEY.
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JACK_O Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. really now... think about that...
No, the republicans and other conservatives have not forgotten any of this. Especially after your little reminder... Anyway, back to the point: just how do you propose to organize this? It's impossible. Also, I'm astounded at your utter lack of thought here. In my opinion, we democrats are all about making life better here in the United States, not sending our wealth to other nations. In fact, that's one of the things we have going for us in this election. We want the jobs and wealth to come back to America, not to send it all overseas. And let's not advertise that we have more millionaires than the republicans do. After all, we are the party of the common man. Really... use your head before you post.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. I can't see anything we could do about it that would be effective.
Revolution? How could that work? Primitively armed demonstators would be an easy targets for well armed military or police units. Unlike Iraq, Americans haven't been hiding vast caches of explosives for years. All that would happen is that the internment camps would fill with dissidents. Another reason that any physical revolutionary resistance would fail is that maybe as many as 40% of Americans are supporting the fascists.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Got Some News For You
With the AWB now dead, and the ability of some to make these types of weapons into full automatic mode, a lot of Americans will not be as primitively armed as you think.

Also don't count on all of the military or police forces in this country to be goose stepping Bush followers. Believe it or not Bush is not loved by all those who wear a uniform.

You're right not all Americans have been hiding vast caches of weapons, then again not all Iraqis hid vast caches of weapons either.

And Bush isn't blindly supported by all state governors either, so there is a chance that a revolution could take place, besides most of the active duty ground units are now outside of the US.

As for the 40% that support Bush, most of them can be dealt with because most are located in specific areas of the country.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Your points seem plausible. But, I can't see the dissenters as
being able to effectively mount any kind of resistance.

As one of the other posters pointed out, just by sheer numbers, we might could get something done. I felt that the demonstrators in NY, when they had 225,000 demonstrating, missed an opportunity to exert the power of a mass that large.

But, the police and military have new weapons to use against masses of people. It's all scary and sickening. Whatever happened to the American dream?

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samtob Donating Member (253 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
36. Dealt with?
What are you proposing?

Protests, absolutely! Taking up arms...against bush supporters, have you lost your mind?
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Lord_StarFyre Donating Member (592 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. Not to sound like Chicken Little, but...
... I have a sneaking feeling that IF what you're proposing happens, ANYONE who didn't support Dumbya, or the BFEE, will be declared Terrorists, and eventually rounded up.

Bush MUST Lose!
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. Sit-in at your local Federal Building.
Edited on Mon Sep-27-04 09:35 AM by ClassWarrior
General strike.

23.


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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. nonviolent resistence
strikes, yep.
canceling newspaper subscriptions and cable subscriptions
picketing media companies
disrupting the economy in nonviolent legal ways
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Democrat 4 Ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. There will be a hundred million in the street
They cannot lock us all up. And they just wouldn't want to be bothered.

One thing you can depend on a Bush supporter to be over all other things is lazy. If it gets to be too much work, or cost too much money or upsets their myopic little world then they will have to get rid of Bush. Neocons loyalty is an oxymoron - they always think first of themselves and if Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell or anyone else in this administration gets between them and their "safe, security" little existence than they will go. That is why it is so easy for them to accept the drivel that is coming out of the GOP campaign. Sheer laziness. They don't want to be bothered with facts, truths, competing opinions or have to think for themselves. With millions in the street they will just want to get rid of the problem. When push comes to shove - they will act to their own self-interest. It is more important to most neocons that they not be bothered than it is to stand on principle.
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Agree and especially
since many of those in the streets will be the daughters, sons, spouses, (and even perhaps the parents) of the Bush supporters.
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theblasmo Donating Member (221 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. Declaration Spells It Out For Us
I've been keeping this handy, just in case.


"That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

David Murphy
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gauguin57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
6. There are millions of us.
They can't shoot or arrest us all. Logistically impossible. Sit-ins, protests, die-ins, marches -- shut down every major city with every Democrat and Bush-hating independent putting their bodies out there.

They can't arrest us all.
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Lord_StarFyre Donating Member (592 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Hmmmmm
...That's what the Jews in 1930s Europe said too
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. So, just raise the spectre of genocide and then disappear?
Is that the game?

23.


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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. an apt comparison.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. I am sorry, but that is nonsense.
Stalin in Russia said to have killed about 20 million Russians who didn't do anything at all just because they were suspects of not supporting his regime.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
18. One thing will happen
The Republicans will inherit one hell of a mess, and they will have to handle it by themselves. If chimp is reinstalled, it might be the end of the neocons in the long run.

Of course, they will cause a lot of death and damage on their way out, and we'll have to live with their right-wing judiciary for the rest of our lives.

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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. That is great in theory, but what about the democracy?
These people want to kill democracy and replace it with an autocratic society with peasants begging for a few pennies to wipe their asses.
The future of the greatest democracy on the face of this earth all rest on one day November 2, 2004.
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. I'm with you
I want to live in Democracy. I am seriously (and this stuns me) thinking of leaving this country. I'm sick to my stomach already. I can't take four more years or decades of this Orwellian nightmare.

Right now what's going on with Dan Rather is the epitome of the country we are facing. One where those that question the president, those with power, are boycotted and forced silent. (And who the fuck has proven that the CONTENT of the memos are false in the first place) What if those memos were actually about something truly controversial, what would happen then, such as say the failure or outright treason of this misadminstration in regards to the events of September 11th, 2001? Execution? Oh wait, there is no real journalism in this country so we will never really know what happened on 9/11/2001.

We are already witnessing the end of Democracy, where the few while witholding the facts from the many hold all the power.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. Jim Hightower says....
....if that happens, he will be in the street and he expects millions to be there with him.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
22. Let's look at the alternative.
If Kerry wins, what will George's base do? Plenty of them will be as unhappy as we would be with a Bush victory. Will they make war against the government?

Perhaps Peak Oil will be an attractive distraction by then. And I'm not looking forward to THAT.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. "Plenty of them will be as unhappy..."
TS!

We've bided our time after sElection2000. We protested, signed petitions, contacted media outlets, contacted figures in government, and campaigned. For what? So we can "allow" another election theft? NO WAY!!! If the Freepers/Fundies are upset, then that's too bad. After all, THEIR victory wasn't stolen from them in 2000 by lawyers (that's ironic!). THEIR mandate wasn't acted on due to corruption in higher government. THEIR plans weren't ignored due to the malfeasance of a crime family.

What do we do?
1. Seize the media. After all, they're mostly responsible for this mess. What you say? It's private property? Then enact the "forfeiture and seizure" laws. Say, "You in the media MAY HAVE committed a crime, therefore, we are seizing your property until we can try you for these crimes! What crimes, you say? Well, we can begin with the Plame case. We could accuse the Media of lying (dis-service to American people). We could accuse the Media of incompetence (sue the Media for malpractice. What, you say? Can ordinary citizens do this? I don't know, but we can make "citizen's arrests," so why not go the extra step and enact seizure and forfeiture?

2. Arrest prominent GOP officials on suspicion of RICO. Seize their assets pending an investigation. Arrest the Bush Administration. Use the forged Niger documents, Bush's inaction on 9/11, LIHOP/MIHOP, Bush's incompetence prior to 9/11 (the Aug. 6 PDB). etc. etc. etc.... Remember, we don't have to have the evidence, just the suspicion. Like those drug arrests in the War on Drugs...

3. Arrest socially-conservative activists, including the church leaders and corporate CEOs. If the religious fanatics squawk, then say "Well, we have it on good authority that some of you were involved in raping children." Take their assets pending an investigation. If the CEO whines, say "We have it on good authority that you pillaged your retirement funds for personal gain." Take their assets pending an investigation.

Stick THEIR butts in Guantanamo. Let THEM rot while the legal system sloooowly moves through its paces.

Once these miscreants are rounded up, then nationalize important social institutions, i.e., health care, utilities, energy...

I'm G.D. sick and angry about what the right-wing has done to this country. And I'll go down in a fight if they try and do in 2004 what they did in 2000...

Who's with me??? :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:
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stryker18 Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. No shit
We suffered under 4 years of this cretin...it's time to put the WH back in capable hands. :grr:
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
23. Thomas Jefferson
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think the best way to start would be with a general strike first, STOP WORKING! Nobody works until thihgs get straightened out. That means keeping the wingnuts from working too, by any means necessary.

Then if it escalates from there, so be it. If they want blood, they've got it.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
24. That would be it... i'd leave the country...!
Wait a sec... already done that... :(
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
27. IMPEACH.
If that happens, can't the congress do something? What are our options under the constitution? Realistically, if one state (Florida) has pernicious voting problems, IMO the best possibility of beating the system post-election and pre-inauguration would be public pressure on that state's electors.

Wait... when does the EC meet, is it before inauguration or after?

And, of course, demonstrate, demonstrate, demonstrate.

General strike.

Honestly, we should start planning this stuff now.
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Tweed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. The Republican controlled Congress is going to Impeach Bush?
Good luck.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Well . . .
The Electoral College meets on December 13 in each respective state and reports to the Congress by December 22.

General strikes are illegal, but if the Government is illegal, what does that mean?

I think that very little will happen. People just don't care that much.

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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
30. Expect it. We need a backup plan.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I agree.
What, other than mass demonstrations, can we do?
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Bran Bal Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. the Kerry campaign
has lawyers all around the nation ready should they try anything.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Hit them where it counts in the pocket book. A guerrilla war on their money
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Bran Bal Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
33. The SCOTUS won't
A justice that ruled for him last time has come out saying it was a mistake. So we should now have the court at least 5-4 against bush.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Plus "Gore v Bush" is considered a "non-precedent" decision....
As I recall, Scalia (or whoever) in its SCOTUS ruling, issued something to the effect that its decision cannot be used as precedent. Therefore, wouldn't any challenge in 2004 be considered "unprecedented?"
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