Man, there are more of "them" here lately than there are of "us"

[leftofthedial]

fifth columnists, disrupters . . .

sheesh, the fascists are desparate.

[FranzFerdinand]

1. sometimes

this place gets sour...

[leftofthedial]

7. Many bona fide DUers take the puke moles and trolls at face value though

and engage in long, hand-wringing, time-wasting, energy-sapping threads

it's frustrating

[cheshire]

2. piss on em. They can't stand how depressed there formums are.

Hang down your head Wuss fooly(*) Poor boy your gonna die.

[leftofthedial]

8. I'd gladly piss on 'em

unless they were on fire

then they can roast

[cthrumatrix]

79. this must be where "all the new jobs" that awol talks about --- all brown

shirts

[Generator]

3. If you don't let "them" piss you off

it's fun to piss them off instead. Err quietly cause they can't/won't respond to it. But you can hear the steam...

Unless it's passes over their head.

[leftofthedial]

9. messing with them is so easy though

tell them the truth once and they flee

[LittleClarkie]

4. Depends on if you're seeing them behind every tree.

Every dissenting voice is not the enemy. Don't fight the power by BECOMING the power. That would be most uncool.

Once in a while, it's good to wake up and smell yourself.

[leftofthedial]

12. Ewww! now that you mention it, I CAN smell myself

whew!

Maybe after my shower I can be most cool again.

:toast:

[alc]

5. don't forget the "others"

don't know how many "others" there are but some of us are not comfortable being "you" or "them". I read both sites (DU & FR) and others for information. I ignore posts about "them" on any site because I want info on "you".

Then again, maybe you don't want me here. I'm still interested in what "you" think and can pretty well ignore what "they" say on "your" board. I almost never post (just joined 2 weeks ago, but read for 3 years) but wanted to let you know that there are "others" and we are interested in what you have to say and talking about "them" is just more noise in what I read on "your" board. In fact I like the interactions with "them" and wish there were more (unfortunately "them" don't play nice on either board)

[cheshire]

10. You are very welcome some have problems with those that are negative.

They are sure negatives are the other side. Have you learned anything? From either side?

[leftofthedial]

14. and some are positive that negative is not positive

comprende?

Are you familiar with psy ops? disinformation? propaganda?

Do you know it when you see it?

[leftofthedial]

11. I didn't comment on who I want or don't want here

I only commented on the increased number of "them" recently

why did you read this thread if talking about "them" is a distraction to you?

[alc]

27. I didn't think you commented on who you want here

>why did you read this thread if talking about
>"them" is a distraction to you?
I've wanted to say that on a number of threads, but usually don't feel that my comments are appropriate (off-topic or inappropriate). I thought they might be acceptable here and I may be able to add some constructive criticism. I'm not trying to offend anyone here and hope that's not the result, but I do feel that "they" usually recover the topic better after a disruptor post and associated attacks. "You" often get off the original topic and the discussion degenerates quickly into "them"-bashing so "they" are more successful at disruption (make parallels to the campains if you want).


>dieharderdem: Have you learned anything? From either side? <br>
yes (from both sides). I appreciate being allowed to see you discuss topics and your opinions and thank you for letting me view the threads.

[cheshire]

32. I hope you can weed thru the sad few or many on both sides. I like to stay

quite to, some just have nothing to ad only negative smart ass remarks. Their are those types on both sides. I've met fair minded people on both sides. I think that's more important than being right.

[alc]

34. I'm pretty good at weeding

I've been weeding since mid-80's, though back then it was mostly "vi vs Emacs" disruptors :)

Back to the original topic, this site has been hit more by disruptors than FR (IMHO). I responded here because I think it's getting to be a knee-jerk reaction to attack back. Sometimes there's potential for a meaningful discussion or an intelligent response but an attack is made instead. If it's really a disruptor, then an attack is fine, but if it's someone like me who's just afraid to post but honestly wants an answer, then you may be driving them away instead of keeping them reading your side. Ignoring them is a good idea, or better, a few factual or well-thought-out-opinion replies will bring out a real disruptor, then take them out with everything you've got.

[cheshire]

41. I was on craigs list for awhile but no one could tell one side from the

other. It's easier on here to ignore them, they give me greif if they don't like my post.
I won't ask you who your voting for but I would like to know what you think of the way america is headed? If you don't mind.

[alc]

46. not sure who I'm voting for

That's part of why I read different sites. Not happy with any side. Last 2 times were Libertarian. Before that Clinton, Dukakis, Reagan. Libertarians are out since Badnarik is a total flake and just got in by a screw up. I'd probably gone for either of the other guys since I think our government is getting too big.

I was completely against going into Irag. I don't like being there, but I don't think we can leave either. When we went in, I thought it needed to be with a 20+ year occupation in mind or not go in at all (I wanted to stay out). We can't just install a democracy since it takes education to vote, so we'd need to raise at least 1 generation of educated voted who know how to live without a cruel dictator (don't think that an occupier is better than a cruel dictator though) I don't see a solution, but don't see Kerry or Bush or anyone else as having a workable solution that's not going to leave us with enemies. I do think leaving sooner rather than later will lead to more Iraqi deaths (civil war or a dictator)
I'd probably prefer Kerry's judges, but Bush's tax plans.
I think the federal government should be much smaller all-around
I think the flat-tax is good, but no way we will implement something like that well. We'd have to repeal the income tax or it would be back soon and we'd have both.

I'd like to see the federal and state tax rates reversed and let states handle a lot of the things that the feds try to do (education, health care, wellfare, marriage, disaster relief)

[physaf]

50. i think you're pretty lucid about these things, and express

what many think. The Libertarian Party does have some things going for it, but I'm never sure whether that's the best approach.

[cheshire]

55. I think we all have issues on both sides. I'm almost a flaming libber.

I just want everyone to have a chance. I know that a man that can go to war and come back and stand up to the Gov. is the Man in the group that speaks for me. He did in 71 and he still does. Taxes are to important to dismiss and I think that this administration is saying no big gov. but just like everything else it's just talk. I don't trust Bushco. I didn't like what his dad did either. I think Nadar has lost sight of the reason he started this. Have you seen this site called http://www.hereinreality.com. It has a lot on Bush family. Also one on all gov. officials is http://www.ontheissues.org I can't understand how this is hard but I'm sympathetic. Good luck

[leftofthedial]

39. I'm definitely in the smart-ass "us" camp FWIW

doesn't make me "them" though.

doesn't preclude me from being fair minded either.


as long as you're not one of "them."

[leftofthedial]

40. glad you're here and that you commented

But I have no idea what you said after the part about not trying to offend anyone.

:shrug:

[alc]

44. I meant that after a disruptor post FR

often recovers and there is meaningful discussion. DU more often degenerates to a negative thread. Mostly true when the distruptor post is in the middle, but often on an original post that could have discussion.

[EnfantTerrible]

63. I disagree

I've tried to have some of those "useful discussions" on FR and was banned for life after three posts. In my experience with them they cannot tolerate or answer a contrasting opinion.

[movonne]

16. I guess these boards are not for the faint of heart...

[cheshire]

19. NO some of them are rabid dogs. Nice huh? I am embarrassed.

[blondeatlast]

37. The site clearly states it's a Democratic board for Democrats.

This isn't the debate team, and we don't play nice with interlopers.

If you can handle that, and you support Senator Kerry, I welcome you.

If you can't, well, piss off.

[Zhade]

48. Just to be fair: it's NOT solely for Democrats, or affiliated with them.

The About section states as much.

For example: I am not a Democrat. They are not nearly progressive enough for me anymore. So, I am an independent, and I am welcome here.

[physaf]

51. thanks for saying that

not all here are happy with any given party. we're here looking for informatin that will lead us in the right direction.

[leftofthedial]

57. what are you, a Commie?

just kidding. looking for information is a hanging offense in the bushgang's murka.

[blondeatlast]

52. True enough. My apologies. nt

[deckerd]

47. Hear hear

Why I am also an independent. Obviously people with an "us vs them" attitude haven't been listening to their candidate... or the pleas of humanity -- when "us vs. them" types get into (usually eagerly sought) positions of power, they invariably turn into "them".

[physaf]

49. thanks for the perceptive comments

it is needed now.

[flpoljunkie]

6. Ignore them. Do not respond to their posts.

[AmerDem]

13. Fascist fucks...all of them

That's right you inbred, fox news watching, redneck, animal fuckers. Your lil game of becoming the new fascist regime is almost up. Once in office, Kerry is going to throw down the largest investigation of treason this country has every seen. You, your party and it's leadership will be begging for mercy once we are done with you.

Personally, I only wish I can come across each and everyone of you and show you what bad asses you aren't. You are a cowardly bunch!

[leftofthedial]

15. Rockin man!

Well said!

:toast: :toast: :toast:

[kymar57]

21. Aw come on

don't hold back. Tell us what you really think.:thumbsup:

[Paradise]

22. phew, i feel so much better now! :) n/t

[troubleinwinter]

23. AmerDem, I think I love ya

[maverick hombre]

33. Don't blame "all of them"

I understand your anger and often feel the same way. But these "Neo-cons" have invaded our party. Nobody from the "Party of Lincoln" and Teddy Roosevelt invited them! They infiltrated, then the next thing you know, we go from the "party of Lincoln" to the "invasion of the Body Snatchers".

They label us (the Progressives that used to be the backbone of Republican politics) "RINO's" which to them mean "Republicans In Name Only". Well they were NEVER Republicans to start with. They are the RINO's. And they came from YOUR Party! ...bear with me...I'm not trying to insult DU or democrats...just a little levity.

These neocons started out as a dissatisfied group of "zionists" who were becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the "big tent" of Democrats. These folks are totally anti-Palistine and anti-Arab. They were joined by other radical right wingers who needed the cover of the big bad boogey man "USSR" and cold war to breed and multiply their "Wilsononian" isolationist ideologies. Well then the "fundamental-case" Chritians joined their ranks with their unabashed support for "God's Chosen People" and their "Biblically-inspired morality."

We were overrun by "lunatic zealots!" If you don't believe me, ask John McCain (those are his words). This is a very big problem now. Any moderate, and even conservative, Republican who does not swear their allegiance to these theocratic malignancies gets attacked, blacklisted, labled "RINO", and faces a real hard time within the party to even begin to get anything working, much less do anything "bi-partisian." Like I said before, a "Banana Republican" Junta has taken over our party and declared themselves "Republicans". But there is an active revolt going on where the progressives and conservatives are also junping ship and voting Kerry. Seriously, you have "old-timers" that would have never dreamed of casting Democrat votes...but they (we) are here en masse.

Someone said Republicans need to claim the party back, and I agree wholeheartedly. But these guys have a lot power and money, and its not an easy undertaking.

[AmerDem]

36. You are wrong!

ANYONE and I mean ANYONE that would support and vote for this inept war criminal currently in our white-house is in fact a fascist supporter.

Take that bullshit elsewhere!

[LittleClarkie]

42. The first time Bush ran as a moderate

I can excuse those who bought the bullshit the first time.

But the second time, no way. "Fool me once" and all that. People need to wake the fuck up.

But here this, I don't need Dem fascism either. You are a mirror of what you hate, reversed. Thrillsville.

Go ahead buddy. Alienate the "Republicans for Kerry." Just don't tar my buddy Wes. He voted for Nixon, Reagan, Clinton and Gore. He voted for National Defense, whereever that issue lead him. Go ahead, rip this country farther apart. Refuse to see the moderate Republicans and true Conservatives who are waking up to the fact that their party has been highjacked. Paint a neo-con sign on all of them if you like.

Wes Clark became a Dem because he saw it as the party of unity, not division. Glorify your hate all you want. Doesn't make it right. "Oh, we're not for the faint of heart." Yer not for the weak of stomach, some of you, either. Accept some honest dissent once in a while without freaking out, for fuck's sake. We shall have at least TWO parties in this country. Deal with it. The Repubicans are not going down. Neither should they. The decent ones should get their party back from the neocon chicken hawks.

John Kerry wouldn't be down for this kind of talk. And neither am I.

Erica, proud to be a Wes Clark Democrat.

[AmerDem]

43. I voted for Clark, Socrates!

now move on! Save it for someone who actually gives a shit!

[maverick hombre]

56. I'm not giving you BS

I'll agree with you that anyone who would vote for this "war criminal" THIS TIME around is either as you say a "fascist" or has been hitting the "Kool-Aid" hot and heavy. But feel free to let me know what "bullshit" you think I should take "elsewhere". I'm passing on what I consider valid information to some of the Democratic folks in this forum who might not know how or where the "neo-con" insanity started or how it evolved. I'm also trying to make it clear that "Neo-cons" are not only a problem to the Democrats. Just background information, friend, not BS or lies or trying to spin you into believing that the sky isn't blue.

[sadiesworld]

82. Well said..

but I, for one, refuse to take responsibility for Wolfowitz, etc. :hurts:

You also may want to consider the notion that w/o Reagan's media deregulation the neo-cons wouldn't have been able to gain power (under the cloak of Kobe Bryant and Laci Peterson, so to speak).

I'm sure we would disagree on many issues (a flat tax????), but it's nice to see that we can agree on ousting Bushco. :toast:

[yardwork]

17. Just keep hitting alert on them

[CornField]

26. Oh shit

The "alert" button is to report posts? Crap! I thought it was the button to rate topics... like for the front page. :freak:

This would probably be a good time to send my apologies to the management.

[MissB]

28. Kidding, right? (nt)

[CornField]

30. Unfortunately, I'm not -- this day just keeps getting better. *sigh*

[MissB]

35. It's okay. You could always

alert one of your own posts :shrug: Just kidding, of course. You could instead go to the ask the mods forum and post something.

Mostly I wouldn't worry about it. They do look at things close enough before they delete users.

[LynnTheDem]

38. You made my day!

I needed a good chuckle, thanks! :D

Maybe that's why suddenly there are less of "us"? LOL!!!

HUGS! :)

[Mr_Spock]

69. You potato head! Just kidding

lol - you're funny.

[yardwork]

60. LOL!!!! That is hilarious!!!

You're brand new and you've been hitting "alert" on posts you admire all day long? Too funny!!!

And you see, you're not banned. That proves how that DU is tolerant.

By the way, welcome to DU. I've been enjoying your posts this evening.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

18. My "Ignore" button is working overtime, but I need to get back to

doing more "alerting" before I "ignore".

[Stew225]

24. Would someone please explain

what "hitting alert" is? Sorry, I must have missed that somewhere. A short explanation would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Blecht]

25. Look below your Groucho

See the word "Alert"?

Try it, you'll like it -- just don't alert admins to your own posts.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

29. If you see a post that is clearly flamebait or put their to trash Dems or

otherwise disrupt the board, you can hit "alert" button (it's on each post) which then opens a window to send an email to the moderators about the post. Usually they are self explanatory but I'll often put a sentence or two in if it requires reference to looking at the posters' other "works". The point is to get the disruptor banned. Unfortunately I don't think DU bans people based on IP like some sites do so lots of these folks usually just get a new account and start over.

Some disruptor posts are a bit sly and subtle. Most are not.

[MissB]

31. If you suspect someone isn't what they claim to be

Or the post is just downright rude, or someone included graphic pictures without a warning, or someone posts flamebait... then you hit alert. You can type a short message to the mods and then send.

[blondeatlast]

53. Funny, I thought you asked about this in AtA. nt

[Blecht]

20. Don't reply to their posts

Use the "Alert" button instead. Try it!

It's fun!

[necso]

45. Well,

as long as you are not talking about me, then I agree.

It is to be expected. They are making their final moves now ... or soon. Besides the ugliness is just plain spreading everywhere. (And let me give you all a hint -- it doesn't pull back by itself. This isn't weather -- it is climate!)

The "alert" feature is most useful and a member can look at older posts by searching with username.

I suggest that you use these things on anyone that you suspect.

As I see it, alerting a member isn't a bad thing and I see no great moral problem doing it. There are rules that we are all to follow, and when we err, we should be corrected.

The Mods are not going to remove anyone or any post that doesn't deserve it -- and this by standards that I personally think are set too loose, just reading the site's rules. However, I respect their judgment, it is their job, and they have made significant efforts and improvements here.

And alerting a freeper is positively a good thing. We do well to keep this place a sanctuary from the darkness, and it shows good of us. Moreover, every little thing that we can do to turn the tide of darkness or defeat the plans of our opponents is a positive thing.

They expect us to react weakly, so let us not.

[LoZoccolo]

54. Ah, McCarthyism.

Telling of some grave threat without actually fingering anyone as part of the threat, so everyone is paranoid and has to watch what they say. Nice.

[leftofthedial]

58. we have our eyes on you

troublemaker

;-)

Sorry. I didn't mean to be McCarthy-esque. It was just an observation about the troll traffic recently. Seems to have educated at least a few newbies about the alert button at least.

:spank:

[geek tragedy]

59. The White Supremacists also try to come in here from time to time

Bash leading Jewish Democrats for being pro-Israel traitors.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

61. It is a really concerted campaign on this board. Tonight is the worst

I've seen it.

[geek tragedy]

62. They're coming from all sides.

Freepers, Stormfronters. Quite an attractive crew.

[VOX]

65. It's been bad the last few days, but tonight it just erupted...

Worst I've seen it also.

[Bongo Prophet]

64. Freep assaults, historical trends, shifting alliances.

Assaults by freelancers and operatives--
Freelancers seems to come fast, often in waves, and usually exhibit classic troll behaviors.
Operatives have more patience and stealthy tact, often cleverly spreading FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, doubt) and divide and conquer techniques.

The historical trends--
There have been a few waves of defection (or purging depending on POV) from Dems to Reps. Two of the most famous would be Civil rights era exodus of the racist dixiecrat faction..well most of it (Zell, et al) and good riddance too!...and the Radical Interventionists of the Scoop Jackson school, who morphed into Neocons.
Further mindwork by the Straussians caused a deep mutation which we now see fully blossomed as PNACers.
Then there are the cultural divide victims, bigots etc. who are perfect for the politics of resentment, which is what talk radio does such a good job of promoting.
Many of these we can write off, like the Herdcore talibornagain faction.
Also Reagan dems, voting pocketbook, who just need to realize they've been scammed. As long as they don't have the blame meme too firmly installed.

Shifting alliances--
In addition, some independent radicals, like "self-styled trotskyite" David horowitz, hanging on the edge of Dems (never really welcome), to being hatemongers for the right. Weird.

Or, conversely people like David Brock, who was a shill for the Scaife machine, only to get sickened by the hate (maybe self-hate too, working with and for those who clearly would hate HIM if they saw his true self) and then turn to debunking the very lies he once facilitated. Redemption by works.

There will be Reps of the old school, old school Rep moderates surely, and even some hard but not hateful conservatives of Goldwater/TR school who might feel more welcome in the DLC part of Dem party, rather than being shunned by the strange mutation that is the current Neo/theoCON alliance.

We need to be sensitive to these shifting alliances as harbingers of larger trends, so as to best react, welcome, entice, engage in honest and respectful debate, etc...

We also need to ally with Libertarians and Greens when it is to the best for all, like drugwar reform and other civil liberties issues.

In this way we can move the ball in a more progressive direction, because we will be anticipating the future and planning, rather than just reacting.

[geek tragedy]

66. There are also those who try to pose as progressives

but really pursue reactionary goals.

Talking about keeping "real Americans" safe from the "dual loyalty Zionists" (who all have Jewish surnames and are leading Democrats) and references to soldiers--disproportionately poor, of color, and exploited--as a "criminal underclass."

[JSJ]

67. and some who simply pose?

[JSJ]

68. we progressives don't call Blacks and Hispanics 'colored'

Just some info so you can appear to be less whatever you're not trying to appear.

[geek tragedy]

70. I'll let the NAACP know.

But, I'll amend that to "of color." As if that makes a difference.

[JSJ]

71. that's plantational, too- you should take some 'awareness' classes nt

[RUBBERBAND MAN]

72. testing

testing one two three testing.

dino and pebbles..:bounce:

[rullery]

73. I'm a Democrat now, but I was once a Republican.

Some here seem to think that unless you are a life-long Democrat, you are suspect. I'm 68 and first voted for Eisenhower in 1956, and Nixon in 1960. I believed then in balanced budgets and deficit reduction. I still do; but notice that over the last 24 years it is the Republicans who have had the worst deficits in our history!

I began to wise up in the early 1960s, and I would have voted for Kennedy in 1964 if he had not been assassinated. I did vote for Johnson in 1964 though. I was appalled at Goldwater at the Republican convention, where I saw the fanatics beginning to take over the Republican party. I did NOT vote for Nixon in 1968 or 1972, having figured out what a louse he was. I voted for Ford in 1976. In 1980 I favored Bush (Senior) during the primary season, because he called Reagan's trickle-down plan "voodoo economics". Later on though, Bush adopted the same failed policies in his own administration; and of course Junior is even worse.

When I retired and moved to Florida in 2000 I registered as a Democrat, having given up on the Republicans for good! I voted for Gore using the infamous punch-card ballot. I still don't know if my vote was counted or not. When the Supreme Court voted for Bush by 5 to 4, and he stole the election, it really ticked me off. I joined the ACLU, and I am proud to be a member.

Today I am doing all I can to see that Kerry is elected in November.
For awhile I tried to reason with some of the far-right folks at FreeConservatives.com, using "ex-Republican" as my moniker. They insulted me using the foulest language I have ever seen, and before long I was banned from their site.

My point in giving you my own history is that we need to be tolerant of others' opinions, and recognize that some minds can be changed.

[RUBBERBAND MAN]

74. Do you guys really kick people out of here just for being aRepublican?

:nuke: :nuke:

[JSJ]

75. the way i hear it, they're escorted out the same way...

...Lefty Rosenthahl had his security escort cheaters out- through an unopen door... headfirst.

[RUBBERBAND MAN]

76. seriously though..

You guys don't really boot republicans just for being republicans do you? If you do, maybe I'm not a Democrat after all.:(

[JSJ]

77. sorry, rbbm- welcome to DU!- you'll have no problems...

...just don't load the dice- and keep in mind this is a very pro-Kerry site.

[drhilarius]

80. It's right there in the rules...

This is a site for dems and progs.

I deal with repub. colleagues, friends, and classmates almost everyday. Things get a little heated during our discussions, but never disrespectful. I never shut them out when I'm out there.

But this place here is ours. I look at it as kind of a social club to just get together with like minded people in order to celebrate, commiserate, or just grouse about daily life.

[liberal N proud]

78. A true liberal can identify the freepers here!

I myself try to avoid those posts that appear to be negative. At least I very rarely reply to any!

[unfrigginreal]

81. So get your ass into "those" threads and start kicking some ass

instead of posting whiny assed "woe is me" threads about the enemy. Jeesh if all the posters that participate in these "stop the doom & gloom" and the "freepers have infiltrated us" threads would just take a few of "those" posters to task, we wouldn't have near the disruptions around here.