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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:42 PM
Original message
So what if a 3-year-old girl waves a Bush sign at a Kerry rally
This is a democracy and people are entitled to their opinions, aren't they?
And they are entitled to protest, yes?
And we all get outraged -- and rightly so -- when a Kerry supporter is dragged away from a Bush rally. And we condemn Bush for requiring loyalty oaths from people who want to attend his rallies.

So why do we act like them?
So what if the little girl waves a Bush sign.
If we're so insecure that we can't tolerate a sign-waving toddler, we're in a lot worse shape than what Gallup is alleging.




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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Who's we, white man?
I didn't tear up anybody's sign.
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Good
We as in those who think it was a good and fine thing to do.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Clarify: as in *some* on site who are whooping and hollering:
"Cry little Freeper Girl. Serves you right for having a Freeper for a dad."

Ugly is ugly, folks. Dem ugly ain't any prettier that Repub ugly.
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Thank you
My point exactly.
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abrock Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Hey now.
Most of us don't think that way. I don't condone the tearing up of someone's sign or manhandling them out of a rally because they are disrupting.

Escort them out. If they resist, carry them out. No need for violence or tearing up their signs.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. That's why I was trying to clarify
If you don't condone it, then the ire ain't directed at you, friend.

I do agree. Removal would be better than violence. But this was at best a random thing, at worst a plant from Bush. Either way, I'm glad some folks in the crowd look shocked. Just ain't right.

But the kid probably shouldn't have been there if the guy was gonna get himself into some shit.

Peaceful protest like the MOMS is one thing. But we don't know if this guy was thinking peaceful thoughts about protesting at an Edwards rally. I would suspect not.
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. If he was just going to stand there with his daughter and a sign
Then God bless him.

This is America and everyone is entitled to peaceful protest.

I would expect and demand the same respect if I were to go to a Bush rally with my young son and a Kerry sign.

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abrock Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. But you would NOT get it.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:57 AM
Original message
True
And why hasn't that been covered extensively. No, don't tell me. I already know. Only showed up in local papers, never national.

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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. No, it was a stupid thing to do.
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I think you are missing my point.
Read the original post, which reflects my opinion. The post you responded to was me clarifying that I was criticizing those who thought it was good to make a toddler cry.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
49. This photo was staged. The "attack" was faked.
The guy who staged it has done it numerous times before. See the other threads on DU about this.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Who exactly are you calling We?
Edited on Thu Sep-16-04 11:44 PM by lizzy
What, did we all go in there and took a sing from a 3 year old?
:spank:
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Can you please provide some context for what you're talking about...
where and when did this happen?
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Check out the four or five threads about this
I think each of them includes the pictures.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-16-04 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. I feel bad for the little girl
the father, however, exercised poor judgement bringing his daughter into a potentially hostile situation. Not smart.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
14. A good point. Also, as this was a rally and not a drunken browl, I don't
buy the "endangering the kid" angle. Man wanted to make a point, maybe have the kid participate in something important to him. I find it legitimate - I've done it.
Search for moral compass or else the entire thing is lost before it begins.
befora expecting to change the world, ask yourself; into what?
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
16. I agree with the first Poster, Watch when you are saying WE
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
17. Tearing up a sign is bad, to be sure.
But today at least the Democrats didn't arrest a grieving mother trying to speak the truth about why her son died:



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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. No, dems didn't do that
But one can't justify an act of stupidity by pointing out that the other side was stupid first.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. Totally missed my point.
I wasn't justifying what happened to the little girl.

I was putting a little PERSPECTIVE on it.

That's different.

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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
19. give me proof that whoever ripped up the sign is a registered dem..
Edited on Fri Sep-17-04 12:53 AM by frylock
or even a Kerry supporter. Folks like you make their work so damn easy. :eyes:
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. why go after the sign...
call social services on the dad.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. as posted by newsguyatl..
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JetCityLiberal Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #19
30. I agree frylock
folks like quaoar make their work too damn easy...I believe that is their point.

Who ripped up that sign...this 'father' is a joke.

Just like this thread.



JetCityLiberal
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
20. why in FUCK do u people come on here and yell at DUers
Edited on Fri Sep-17-04 12:56 AM by jonnyblitz
like WE were the ones who did it? this is getting OLD OLD OLD!! its been done, it was stupid, SHUT THE FUCK UP, NOBODY ON DU DID THIS!!
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. No one at DU did this
But quite a few at DU apparently think it was justified.
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bobbyboucher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Oh please.
Let it go, Karl. You've gotten plenty of mileage out of it already.
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maine_raptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #24
45. Justified??????
For who, by which side?

The posts I've read here at DU tell me no such thing.

Just what is the "justification" for trying to "Prove" that "the Democrats are supported by "Union bullies and thugs" and "are mean to little children." Because make no mistake about it, that was the reason why this creep used his CHILD in this manner.

Remember, this was no random event..this was a setup.....this was a dirty trick........this was planned and maybe even paid for by Republican operatives.

Now, you tell me, quaoar, where is the justification in this evil act?

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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #20
34. What Jonny said ! and Daddy is Stupid...Rove ploy !
Edited on Fri Sep-17-04 01:59 AM by vetwife
Try this on for size...Can someone give a woman back her son..?
The old man tore up the sign 2 to 1



http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Nomad59/GoldStar.wmv
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bobbyboucher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
22. Are you carrying Republican water?
It sure looks like it. Whine about something else.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
23. If a three year old girl waves a Kerry sign at a Bush rally, she'll
get the shit kicked out of her, and then she'll be cuffed and thrown in the back of a paddywagon.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #23
46. She'll definitely get peppersprayed. I read an article where a little girl
got intentionally peppersprayed by police at a protest within the past year or so.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
25. What kind of a sick Freeper son of a bitch uses a three year old child
..to showcase his warped support for a regime of murderers and thieves.

This asshole did this shit on purpose. He used that kid just like that fucking idiot Michael Newdow used a kid he barely knows as a pawn in his personal crusade against God.

Neither of them know shit about parenting.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. the same kind of a sick freeper son of a bitch..
that stands out in front of a Planned Parenthood clinic with their child holding a sandwich board with the portrait of an aborted fetus.
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
31. You're so right.....I feel so bad
I feel so sorry that I ripped up that poor girl's sign.....wait a minute! I didn't rip up the sign! So what the fuck do I have to feel guilty about?
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Bongo Prophet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
32. If anyone sees such a thing at a rally
Then try to protect them, and tell them you respect their right to be there if they are respectful back.
We can be consistent and maintain our higher moral ground, and STILL beat them at the polls..in a fair elect.....well, you know...
Even if it is a trick--not unlikely--don't fall for it by letting down guard.

We are NOT so insecure. We stand for TRUTH not ideological dogma, and must maintain the integrity of our position.

MAYBE some acted poorly. This happens in any group of humans. But it is not in the liberal/progressive tradition to pick on powerless, but to give grief to the POWERMONGERS. It is clearly the other side that does that, historically.
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. 80 post and we have an all knowing here ......
Edited on Fri Sep-17-04 02:02 AM by vetwife
Want compassion? Look at this and then we talk compassion
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Nomad59/GoldStar.wmv
Where was the hug Bush gives..Looks like cuffs to me !
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Bongo Prophet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. I have seen this. I looked at it again.
So we can "talk compassion".. but it just pissed me off again.
I watched it twice (and taped it to show friends) on Olbermann earlier.
But...did I say anything about compassion or Bush hugs in my post?
I expect Neocon/fascists to act like they do. That is their rotten nature.
Silence all opposition.

I personally suspect this as a set up, and the family ARE GOP operatives-(wife did a search, and one daughter is College Repug)...but responded to this post's question of whether we are like them by replying no we are not!
THEY will not allow ANY other voices. We have and we will.
Moral high ground. I like it, and want to keep it.

As to the "80 post and we have an all knowing here ......" ...damn, Vetwife. I am on your side. I have supported a post or two of yours and appreciate your POV. I have been here since leaving tabletalk in 01 and DU is one place I go for info and camaraderie. Sorry if I came off preachy or all-knowing, but in no way am I anything other than an ally. :toast:
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Sorry, we have so
had so many people downplaying the arrested Mother story and I did not want to seem bossy myself but tend to be like a 1st seargent at
times because I am calling and raising so much cain all the time.
It was late and I was tired and fighting Ivan too. I still think that was a GOP operative. Anything to make us look bad. Anything.
I put nothing past these folks !
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derrald Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
33. God Dang people!
It was a setup! A republican plant acting like a Kerry supporter tearing up the girls' sign.

What kind of DUMBASS would rip up a little girl's sign in front of a photographer for the AP!?

It doesnt pass the bullshit test, and we need to tell the republicans to apologise for this blatant and pathetic attempt to besmirch the good name of dems everywhere.
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Julian English Donating Member (232 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
38. Ever heard of child abuse?
Edited on Fri Sep-17-04 08:56 AM by Julian English
You aren't supposed to do stupid things to a child. This guy knew that he was putting the kid at risk. He belongs in jail for this. You can protest without exploiting a 3 year old. He's shameless. As he's done it before, he knew the danger.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. So what
What difference does it make that the girl's father is an asshole? So what if the GOP sent him there?

Was he disrupting the rally? If so, escort him out.

If he was just standing there holding a sign, leave him alone. And I can see now reason to justify taking the sign away from the little girl. That's just sick.

And what does this incident have to do with the grief-stricken mother who was hauled away from the Laura Bush rally?

Just because the Republicans act like assholes doesn't mean we should. I think Laura Bush should personally call that mother and apologize. And she should answer her question -- what did her son die for?



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imax2268 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. The thing that you are missing is this...
-the guy has done this three elections in a row...
-the guy in the union shirt is one of his sons...
-the photographer works for a paper that features the dad on a regular basis...

You want to feel sorry for the girl...fine...go ahead...I do to...I feel sorry for her that her dad involved her in a staged photo op to make Kerry/Edwards supporters look bad...
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
39. The story is a bullshit plant
Already debunked. This is a Soviet-style fabrication.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. Here's a link to a source showing he's done done this in the past.
Edited on Fri Sep-17-04 10:23 AM by w4rma
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
41. And the sign says
"long hair freaky people need not apply"
So I put my hair under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said you look like a fine outstanding young man I think you'll do
So I took off my hat I said "Imagine that Huh Me working for you"

Signs Signs
Everywhere there's signs
Blocking up the scenery
Breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign

And the sign says "Anybody caught trespassing will be shot on sight"
So I jumped the fence and I yelled at the house, Hey! What gives you the right
To put up a fence And keep me out Or to keep Mother Nature in
If God was here He'd tell it to your face Man You're some kind of sinner

Signs Signs
Everywhere there's signs
Fucking up the scenery
Breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign

Oh Say now mister Can't you read
You got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
You can't watch No You can't eat You ain't supposed to be here

And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh

And the sign says "Everybody welcome Come in Kneel down and pray"
But then they passed around a plate at the end of it all
And I didn't have a penny to pay
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own fucking sign
I said Thank you Lord for thinking about me I'm alive and doing fine

Signs Signs
Everywhere there's signs
Fucking up the scenery
Breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign

Signs Signs
Everywhere there's signs
Fucking up the scenery
Breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. holy crap
I never really thought about the lyrics of that song, but reading them here gives it a whole new meaning.
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myanklesrswollen Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
47. Wow...
I've been lurking here for about a year and as a by-stander, I've been reluctant to sign up until I saw this. I agree with many of the ideas shared on this forum and really enjoy reading the interesting articles. I have to say that these pictures of this 3 year old are going to hurt the Kerry campaign and many of the comments here are just throwing gas on the fire. Is this not America? That man had just as much right to be there with his family to display a sign for * as any of us. If the roles were reversed, I would feel it's my first amendment right to "peaceably" assemble with * supporters holding my Kerry sign.

From what I can see in the pictures, they were peaceably assembled and in the second picture, the father was looking down at the ground, humiliated, holding his 3 year old daughter on his shoulders as the guy that tore up her sign is clearly giving him/her a verbal thrashing. Pictures are worth a thousand words, and if it was my kid, I would have peaceably removed my children from the area and called the coward out for who he was. Not a Kerry or * supporter, but a grown man that picks on a three year old.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. It's fake. The whole thing was as a setup
The "union" guy who tore the sign is the little girl's brother. The father has done this numerous times before. Read the other threads.
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maine_raptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. Ahyup..It's a Fake
Welcome to DU, by the way, hope you enjoy your stay for how ever long.

:toast:

This guy the father holding the girl, is a professional heckler of long standing. If nothing else he's in violation of Child Labor Laws, don't you think?
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myanklesrswollen Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. ohhhh
So the man holding his child has been to democratic gatherings and tore up peoples signs?
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. No, he didn't tore up people signs.
The only signs he probably tore up were his own Bush signs.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. No, the man with the sign is a serial victim who goes to Democratic
events holding up Republican signs and has Republicans (his son in the latest case) pose as Democrats who then rip up the signs.
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. Welcome to DU, BTW
Yes, apparently the guy who ripped up the sign was the little girl's brother. And now it seems the dad is also involved somehow in that incident a while back where someone shot out a window at a GOP HQ in West Virginia.

He is a professional dirty trickster.

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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-17-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. Please cursor up to post #44 & click on those links.
The entire story will be explained to you.

It's fake.
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