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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 11:24 PM
Original message
Arguing with a nut...
Edited on Tue Nov-10-09 11:32 PM by and-justice-for-all
I might as well be hitting myself in the face with a hammer, but I find this conversation I am having with a reich-wing nut via facebook, to be an exercise for me. He says some crazy, out of touch with reality shit, but I continue to respond.

Here is some of the conversation:

My response to him:

current Unemployment rates are clearly due Bush policies and reaganomics, some can not seem to see that for its obviousness. Remember when Bush and Bernake started the whole Bank Bail out thing....

articles.moneycentral.msn.com/.../BushBernankeAndABadBailout.aspx
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22705103/

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/business/16fed.html?_...

58% do not disapprove of Socialized health care, tell that to all the people who are already on Government run health care..Medicare. Can you send me a link to the polls that show 58% of us disapprove of universal health care?

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1382

Since your so dead set against socialism, which I am a Democratic Socialist, you would be for privatizing the Police and Fire Departments, ending Medicaid and Medicare (there by tossing millions of elderly and handicapped under the bus, for profit of course), you will no longer be driving on any of the roads since they were laid with Socialism. I would assume you will not be collecting your unemployment either, since that is socialism and you hate that. All Social programs are in fact Socialism, so if you ever need food stamps because you hit bottom, do not bother getting them, because you are against socialism. There is a rather long list of Socialized programs in the US, perhaps, since your so against Socialism you should buy yourself that plane ticket. You might be happier is Somalia.

Afghanistan is bullshit, we should not even be in the middle east for anything. I disapprove of all war mongering and its funding.

"the billions of TAXPAYERS dollars have NOT created enough jobs to stimulate the economy" LOL, uh yeah, because there is not such thing a magic.

"General Motors continues to FAIL!" GM is in reform and as far as I am concerned, if your to big to fail then your to big to exist.

"Deutschland has a 36% immigration rate to America" Link please? The CIA factbook has the German population estimated in 2008 at 82,369,552 so if 36% of all them decided to pack up and move or even apply for immigration that would mean that last year 29,653,039 Germans moved to the US.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-fact... /

"do my critisims make me patriotic like you??" You assume I hate America because I see the error of my countries ways, that America is not perfect. You act as though 'your America' or your idea of America has been taken from you. You do not see it as I do, you think your are trying to rescue some one who has been kidnapped or that you have been robbed. I do not see it that way, so my idea of patriotism is not like that of yours.

"temper tantrums??YOU AINT SEEN SHIT YET!!," Hilarious to the last.

Guten Tag! Tschuss.


His Reply:

"The thought of your statement,"Democratic Socialist",not only shows your stupidity,, but lack of knowlege of how the CONSTITUTION works.Sorry but you cant have it both ways,,your either a Socialist,or not.If your a Socialist,I would love to get to know you!!,,really I would!!,,why?,,I love keeping my friends close!,,and my ENEMIES CLOSER!!,,good luck!!,,Oh yes keep blaming Reagan,Bush,and whoever else you want to,,when do we get to blame Obama?Clinton?Pelosi??,,again,,its time to quit finger pointing and take responsibilty for what they(The Obama administration),have done,,and one day,,THEY WILL!!"


My Response to Him:

Stupidity? I am well aware of what a Democratic Socialist is and I think your the one who needs to lesson in Government philosophies. Socialism is not Communism, Democratic Socialism is what is already established here in the states like Medicare and the Police Department, which I am sure you think are unconstitutional.
http://www.sp-usa.org /

Your obviously to oblivious to reality to recognize socialism even though you use every day i.e. the roads and streets you drive on.

Obama has been in office for 10 months and I can hardly blame him the hand he was dealt. At least when Clinton was in office there was a surplus and no deficit, at least when Clinton was in office people had money.

But no thanks to raygunomics and the deficit hole bush plowed us into, which when he left office he left a $1 trillion dollar deficit and two pointless and wasteful wars. Yet I am sure you are willing to bend reality to your will and blame those on Obama too.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-progress-report/the-b...

Reagan and Bush I and Jr can be blamed, this shit is the result of their fucked up policies. If Obama did this shit I would say exactly the same. You want to blame Obama for EVERYTHING, no matter what the hell it is. Is your toilet clogged? It is Obama's fault. Did you get the flu? Blame Obama...etc

And do not forget to provide those links to your accusations.


His Reply:

"I dont blame Obama for everything,I just want him to take responsibility for driving us into poverty,like all of the socialist countries we know of.The reason there was a surplus of money and jobs during the Clinton yrs. were due to the Reagan administrations actions,including the fall of the Berlin wall,and Russia,another socialist country.So in 2 years when all hell breaks loose,we the people take back our country and we the people hold these elected officials responsible for thier actions,what country will you be living in??My offer still stands,ANY place you want to go,,let me know!!,,I will book you on the next flight out!!Please remember,,Iam niether a Deocrate or Republican,,Iam an AMERICAN!!"


My Response to him:

Again, you need to provide links to your assumptions.

Prior to the US financial crisis, which is due to trickle down economics aka Raygunomics, the EU was financially stable; with Germany having the strongest economy in the EU.

Prior to Bush II:
http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/public...

During Bush II
http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/economic_and_mon...

Knowing full well that Obama has only been in office for 10 months, any one with half a brain knows that the results of the US financial down turn was all due raygunomics coming to a head and Bush I and II's tax cuts to the wealthy over the course of their White House occupations along with other craptastic policies.

Just exactly how could Obama possibly be at fault for the mess left to him? Why do not you ask for Bush and Dick to take responsibility for there actions or to have them held accountable? After all, the number one reason for the mess are the middle east occupations, which is costly in lives and deficit spending.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/weekinreview/01glanz....

I am not at all please with President Obama's decision to continue the occupations of the middle east, I reject the idea that we have to be there.

The Berlin wall came down, not due to any major actions of the US, but because the USSR's economy tanked due to their 40% military budget and as a result, they could not longer afford to maintain the occupation. Reagan and Wilson jumped in to take credit for something they had no hand in.

"Theres a grain of truth to the right-wing notion that Reagans early military buildup scared the Soviet Union into submission: Some (though not all) in the Kremlin hierarchy did genuinely fear that the USSR, because of its technological backwardness, could not compete with Star Wars. But the larger reality is that even without Reagans initial buildup, a Soviet leader would have eventually tried to curb the arms race. By the 1980s, military spending constituted an eye-popping 40 percent of the USSRs budget, Moscow was importing vast quantities of grain, and the Russian people were growing restive. Sooner or later, a reformer like Gorbachev would have emerged. What really mattered was that when Gorbachev did emerge, he was able to convince the Politburo that the USSR could dramatically reduce military spendingand let Eastern Europe go freewithout fearing American attack. (The USSR, its worth remembering, had been attacked through Eastern Europe in both World War I and World II.) And Gorbachev could do that because Reagans dovish rhetoric and his embrace of arms control made America seem far less menacing. As Soviet Ambassador to the U.S. Anatoly Dobrynin noted, If Reagan had struck to his hard-line policies in 1985 and 1986Gorbachev would have been accused by the rest of the Politburo of giving everything away to a fellow who doesnt want to negotiate. We would have been forced to tighten our belts and spend even more on defense.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-11-... /

The USSR is not a socialist state, it is Communist.
COMMUNISM:
1. a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
2. (often initial capital letter) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism

You do not seem to concerned with holding the 8 year occupiers accountable for their actions, why is that? You say you have not political party affiliation and yet, you blame everything on Obama and the Democrat majority. I find it rather hard to believe that you are not a Republican, when you know that in 2002, every single Republican backed the Iraq invasion, along with most Democrats, with the acception of 1 or 2.

Republicans gave Bush everything and anything he wanted, every single time. To argue that it is all the current Presidents fault is just ignorant.

Might I remind you of what is Socialism, which the US has already:
The roads you drive on.
Medicaid/Care
SS, SSI, SSDI,
Police and Fire Departments
Unemployment Benefits
Social Services
Public Schools
Military
Unions
...etc

To call Obama a Socialist, when he is a traditional Capitalist, is laughable. It is also flat out ignorant to say that Socialism in America is something new, when in fact, it is in the fabric of the country and has helped and not hurt. To Socialize health care would be majorly beneficial to every one and even the deficit, countries with Socialized health care have the best health care, a not for profit health care system that puts care before profits.

http://www.who.int/whr/en/index.html

Those EU countries, with their Socialized Health Care, provide better care then the states. Why? because everyone has access to it and everyone contributes to it. No one in the EU goes bankrupt because of their medical bills, because their are no medical bills. It is paid for with taxes. Why is that such a bad thing?

We pay more in taxes then people in France and yet, they have one of the best health care systems in the world and you can even go to university for free.

I am not an advocate to turning everything over to Socialism, just health care. It has already been proven that Socialism and Capitalism can co-operate, that is exactly how the EU and many other countries function, with both.

In 2 years, Barack Obama will be elected to his second term. Seeing that your not a Republican nor Democrat, you must be supporting the Libertarians or some other party, which clearly does not have a chance at even getting in the debates, let alone win a Presidential election.



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Brother Buzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'd rather argue with a dining room table
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8

"Trying to have a conversation with you would be like trying to argue with a dining room table, I have no interest in doing it," - Barney Frank
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. LOL!
good one
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Extend a Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. he also needs to stop
camping in national parks and borrowing books from the PUBLIC library.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Indeed...nt
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dalaigh lllama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. And yet, it is so satisfying, isn't it?
The last such exchange I had with a freeper on FB I ended up making him eat his words after he posted a link supposedly refuting what I had just said followed by a rant in caplock telling me what a terrible liar I was. Told him to reread his link, as it confirmed what I had just said. He looked like a total ass. Loved it.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. As you can tell, it is just ramblings and gibberish...
and it sounds like it is their schtick.

he still has NOT provide a single link to his accusations and assumptions.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's s sure clue when they start yammering on about "how the constitution works"
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-10-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Clueless really...LOL
he is completely delusional.
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