Maybe Obama should have chosen Hillary as VP candidate after all

[bunnysoft]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/123860/Vice-President-Biden-...

[JTFrog]

1. /facepalm

[Stuckinthebush]

43. Double Face palm

accompanied by a groan.

[treestar]

58. ...

[mucifer]

2. bush had high approval because of the post 9/11 "patriotism"

[bunnysoft]

3. Im' drawing people's attention to the VP stats more than anything else

Biden is not looking good right now in terms of popularity.

[JTFrog]

5. No more than anything else

you're drawing attention to your bitter side.

[mucifer]

6. To me it is more important that he is pushing President Obama to the left on Afghanistan

The right decisions are not always popular.

BTW cheney had the 9/11 bump, too. Remember at the end of the bush administration he was at 20%.

[karynnj]

26. Thank you

Even on the only thing you can compare them on, Biden has done better representing the US overseas than Clinton has.

[krispos42]

89. Yeah. Take a look at this...

No way he would have been at 90%+ without 9/11.

[babylonsister]

4. Why? She's doing a fine job as SoS, as is Biden as VP. nt

[saltpoint]

7. I like Biden.

[Mass]

8. Bush and CHeney stats reflect 9/11. Biden is a good VP. The economical situation is very hard.

[Buzz Clik]

9. Those bar graphs would suggest he should have taken Cheney.

[pnwmom]

22. LOL. n't

[KittyWampus]

27. have i ever told you I love you Buzz Click

LOL!

[NYC_SKP]

35. Or better still, Bush! 69%!

[quantass]

10. Hillary seems best served as SoS -- VP imho wouldnt flex her enough nt

[saltpoint]

11. Or, what the hell, Obama could have chosen Gene Autry. Is Gene Autry still

alive?

Probably not.

Ok, then. He could have chosen Cardinal Great Red Schoendienst. I mean, who doesn't like Red Schoendienst?

Also passed up were tv psychic Miss Cleo, the Sham-Wow guy, Ted Nugent, Stephen King, and Gordon Lightfoot.

I never understood why Gordon Lightfoot didn't get the nod. He's a great Canadian and he has great songs.

[babylonsister]

12. ...

[saltpoint]

13. Hey there. Good morning!

October's about to bite the dust and we're farther along on health care reform than we were last time you and I swapped howdies on DU.

That Obama guy. He rocks.

[babylonsister]

15. Despite the doom and gloomers who abound, I have to

agree with you!

Hope you are well!

[Pool Hall Ace]

19. Oh come on

Isn't it bad enough that we have a Kenyan president, now you want us to have a Canadian VP?

Seriously though, I think Hillary is a better fit as SoS.

[saltpoint]

20. Canada and Kenya I can handle. As long as it isn't someplace exotic like

Hawaii.

[Pool Hall Ace]

34. Seriously though, I wouldn't put much credence in this poll.

I have been dealing with a lot of personal shite this year, so whatever gaffes VP Biden has made have not registered with me. But the same people who have issues with Biden would still find fault with Hillary Clinton as VP. She is a CLINTON, after all!!

[karynnj]

30. lol - i love your ability to humorously make the point - 100% on target

[saltpoint]

32. Hi, karynnj. I'm embarrassed to say I have a recording of Gene Autry

doing "Rudolph, the Red-Nosed Reindeer."

Do I listen to it as much as I listen to the Beatles or the Who or Joni Mitchell? No.

[Whisp]

49. best post in this thread. •L•O•L•

thanks for the laughter. heheheh (my dog is looking at me funny now)

[treestar]

59. ...

VP Lightfoot all the way!

[PSzymeczek]

78. Great Idea!

I me some Gord!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

14. What this really says is that the Dems should have pushed to nominate Bush to a third term.

[WePurrsevere]

24. It's Gallup...

'huff said.

[PSzymeczek]

79. Believe it or not,

Gallup and I are distant cousins; we are both descended from Jacob Hochstedtler. He is Amish/Mennonite on his mother's side. No progressives among the Amish.

[safeinOhio]

16. Come to think of it

I haven't heard any of the right-wing nuts bitching about the job she is doing. She is doing a great job.

[karynnj]

29. The RW targets what they think are strengths

Biden did a great job representing the US at the NATO meeting and in Iraq. There were no RW attacks on either. Though Clinton had a success in Albania, her diplomacy has been somewhat shakier than Biden's. Neither have been targeted on that because at the moment, the issues the right is concentrating on are the economy (which Biden has been prominent on), Health care (where neither are) and global warming (where neither are major players). In addition, attacking Biden and twisting his words is seen as attacking the likely 2012 ticket.

At this point the RW is attacking Obama on Afghanistan, as their issue is the simplistic - "he's taking too much time" or criticizing him for not blindly listening to his general - ignoring that the plan was for a specific policy - and the policy seems likely to change. If Obama choose a plan like the ones he has been rumoured to favour, similar to what Kerry presented, which has been described as a cross between Biden's and McChrystal's, Biden will likely get the brunt of the attacks, not leveled at Obama himself.

[joeycola]

17. She set up her major envoys and asked for a bigger budget and

is bringing women's issues into discussion on a world-wide basis. SOS suits her well.

[Teaser]

18. THIS IS SOME STUPID SHIT

.

[JohnnyLib2]

21. Skater Nancy Kerrigan said it best,

"why, why, why!?"

(have this discussion)

[Metric System]

23. I think Cheney tainted the office of VP. I can't think of any other reason for Biden to be so low.

[karynnj]

25. The fact is the conditions were not the same

Bush's first year was greatly impacted by 911 - where the last quarter greatly inflated both his and Cheney's ratings. In addition, in 1992, the attacks were primarily on Clinton, rarely Gore. The fact is that Biden has been not just attacked, but ridiculed by the media. It is also likely that some of his unfavorables are from supporters of HRC.

There is no reason to think that in the role of VP she would be at the level that she is for Secretary of State. A similar chart would show that for the last 2 decades the SoS polled at least as high or considerably higher than the President. (This was true for Albright, Powell, and Rice as well as Clinton) It is very likely the nature of the job, where they are seen representing the country.

[firedupdem]

28. back from the dead for halloween? n/t

[Divine Discontent]

61. without a doubt in my mind.

[CakeGrrl]

63. +1

[mkultra]

31. there where much better options aside from those two.

[hileeopnyn8d]

33. Thanks for this

I like to fill my head with a bunch of stupid shit that doesn't mattter. I see you do too.

I really appreciate your efforts in helping me achieve my goal.

[jasi2006]

36. My Dram: Obama does not run in 2012...doesn't the GOP the satisfation

of all the opportunities to bash him. Hillary runs with his support. Finishes off the GOP for good.

[WI_DEM]

38. Why would Obama not run in '12?

[joeycola]

39. Interesting to say the least. But

i kinda doubt it. Fascinating if it did happen.

[WI_DEM]

37. Why? just because the gallup poll? where do you think HRC would be if she were VP

on that poll? probably about where Biden is.

[MadBadger]

40. Are you here just to stir up some shit?

[joeycola]

42. Fact is,

your comment is more divisive than the OP. Mature DU members can engage in a discussion.

[hileeopnyn8d]

44. Fact is,

there is nothing to discuss.

Fact is, the OP only posted a chart.

Fact is, calling someone divisive and immature, is divisive and immature.

[joeycola]

51. There is always something to discuss when a comment

is laid out.


And I did not call anyone or any post immature.

[Binka]

81. Hey Buddy Remember Indigent?

Yeah. I knew you would understand.

[Binka]

82. You Have Been Participating 2 Months What Do You Know About DU Discussion?

Please do not tell me how long you have lurked, I SAID participating.

[ronnykmarshall]

41. Hillary is kicking ass as SOS.

She's in the best job for her (other than President).

[Xipe Totec]

47. Agreed

And I'm happy with Joe Biden where he is as well.

[Jeneral2885]

48. Develoipment

Agree, though she should start flexing some muscle in the development area.

[joeycola]

56. The potential in Hillary Clinton's global campaign for women

Women's development is a key goal for her.


http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0911/p12s01-comv.html

The potential in Hillary Clinton's global campaign for women


No other secretary of State has so focused on women's rights. It's a powerful shift.
the Monitor's Editorial Board

from the September 11, 2009 edition



When Hillary Rodham Clinton traveled to Africa last month, she visited war-racked eastern Congo to speak out against widespread rape by militias. She choked up after meeting with two rape victims and promised more US help – $17 million for medical treatment and security for victims.

Now she's taking the issue to the United Nations, where the US is leading an effort to shore up a resolution to end sexual violence against civilians during armed conflict. The Security Council passed Resolution 1820 last year, but follow through is sorely lacking.

Women's rights are becoming a signature issue for America's top diplomat. In her official travels, Mrs. Clinton talks with women, meets with female activists, and presses the twin challenges of women's rights and abuse with political leaders. She wants US development aid to focus more on women, and has appointed the first US ambassador for global women's issues.

The Bush administration, too, championed women's rights, especially in Muslim countries such as Afghanistan. But no secretary of State has sought to make women as high a priority as Clinton is attempting. It's a potentially powerful shift. If she can pull it off.

Obstacles abound, including the unruly thicket of US aid programs. But the greatest challenge is the deeply rooted culture in countries that oppress women and girls – often violently and even to the point of enslavement, sexual and otherwise. Honor killings, child brides, female infanticide – all of these accepted customs need to be realized as unacceptable.

As it seeks to promote women's rights, the US faces a paradox: The push could backfire if it comes off as a lecture or is perceived as another modern Western idea that will cause societal upheaval. But Clinton is wisely framing the issue in terms of countries' own interests. .................

[undeterred]

55. She is one smart lady.

And she's doing a great job.

[Divine Discontent]

62. SOS Clinton is AMAZING! Maybe she can be VP if Joe wants to step down in 12, or, if not, she will

run in '16.

[Hansel]

66. Absolutely. I like her in that position. nt

[jesus_of_suburbia]

71. You said it perfectly.

[Whisp]

45. o geeeze. Like I believe GAllup or CNN or any of those.

could possibly have some truth but who gives a shit.

not me.

[vaberella]

46. Primaries are over. Let's move on, shall we. n/t

[and-justice-for-all]

50. I thought she did not want the job? nt

[Jennicut]

52. Two things you forgot to mention was Gore got a bump after his debate with Perot in 1993 about Nafta

and Cheney was high after 9/11. Gore was at the same approval rating as Biden before he debated Perot.

"Gore's popularity was close to Biden's -- the mid to high 40s -- for most of 1993. It spiked after Gore confronted Ross Perot on NAFTA. (Gore actually registered a 42% approval rating on October, 29, 1993 according to an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.)" http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/10/joe_biden_less_...



And I like Hillary but would rather have a VP that advises less troops in Afghanistan, not more.

[Trajan]

53. Looking at the Forum ...

There are two threads in no rec land; both by the same poster ...

Divide and conquer, eh ?

[bunnysoft]

64. That's ok. I had a thread with over 200 recs the other day

About net neutrality. I don't really feel sad when a thread is unrec'ed.

[JTFrog]

72. Yeah, but look what happens when you add your own comments to a link.

[bunnysoft]

76. Your argument crumbled, since in one of my unrec'd threads I posted the link without commenting

The original argument against me had holes. One of the unrecommended threads was about 40% of Obama's fundraisers getting jobs in the administration, and I did not add a comment to that one.

On the other hand, I have attached comments to links of threads with a positive recommendation count.

And the number 1 is not a good representative sample in anything. Your logic was that "One of my threads made up of links + comments had many unrec's, therefore I am bad DU'er or something.

[JTFrog]

77. blah blah blah

all I'm hearing is meow meow meow....

[bunnysoft]

75. moved

I positioned this reply in the wrong spot. Moving.

[Binka]

88. Bunny You Are Not Doing Well

Just an FYI.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Romulox]

60. Biden is fine...as long as he's kept away from cameras and not allowed to make any policy decisions.

As an aside, a hearty LOL in that the Obama admin believes Biden to possess "ample working class charisma."

[karynnj]

65. That is insuting. What if I wrote: HRC is fine ...as long as he's kept away from cameras and not

allowed to make any policy decisions."

The fact is both HRC and Biden give Obama advice on policy - and he makes the decisions. Both have been able advocate for the most part - and neither has been gaffe free. The fact is that Biden, while not tremendously charismatic, was authentically someone who actually did have a connection to the working class, an impressive resume (that far exceeds HRC's in foreign policy), and an inspiration life story, that showed him to be a man of impeccable character. It is incredible that he had the strength and determination to continue on as a Senator when his wife and child died.

[Vinca]

67. Biden is low key and Clinton is a star - but that's how it should be

given their roles in this administration.

[Zodiak]

68. There are lots of potential reasons for this

For one, the average American hasn't really heard anything at all about Biden other than perhaps what SNL and the punditocracy has to say about him, and that is almost universal ridicule for his "gaffes". In short, he is made fun of in popular culture, and this poll most likely reflects that ridicule. Make fun of Biden, and you are more socially acceptable because that is the "conventional" wisdom.

What I find the most laughable about this approach to VP popularity is the inclusion of Bush/Cheney in this list. For one, the poll represents post 9-11 nationalism, not Cheney's <20% approval rating throughout most of the rest of the Bush/Cheney presidency. Not mentioning how truly unpopular The Penguin was with the American people indicates to me that they are cherry picking the data to suit a predetermined conclusion.

When Biden does something more newsworthy and up-front (hopefully not shooting someone in the face), then we will see how the American people feel about him, not the image of him.

[thatsrightimirish]

69. maybe you should have chosen not to post here

your favorable rating would have gone up

[jesus_of_suburbia]

70. Biden is doing a great job where he is. So is Hillary. I fully support Biden.

[ClarkUSA]

73. Is that you, Mark Penn?

[question everything]

74. NO! And I was a supporter of her till the very end

She utilizes a lot more of her skills as Secretary of State than had she been a VP.

And she has more freedom to express her opinions and to act, as opposed to just... well.. being ready to act when called upon, not necessarily to step into the highest office.

[wisteria]

80. I think her numbers would be down like Biden's if she were VP.

She receives good numbers now because she has not had to defend some of the policies of the Obama administration. And, the only news on her are good news stories.
Obama is a tough act to follow, and I think Biden is doing a good job.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

83. The M$M has made Biden invisible. It has always hated Biden because he speaks truth to power.

Biden was and is the BEST choice for VP. PERIOD!!!

[akbacchus_BC]

84. Why? VP Biden is doing a great job and so is SOS Hilary Clinton?

Perhaps, you can message President Obama and let him know that you know all the facts!

[Beacool]

85. Oh goodie, the second thread about a Clinton.

More heads exploding.

There's so much love in the party, just like the Hatfields and McCoys......

[Rowdyboy]

86. Cheap shot.. I just thank the gods that Joe is vp and not Evan Bayh or Tim Kaine....

Fuck polls-Biden is doing just fine. His numbers, at their WORST, are easily double Darth Cheney's at his best.

[krawhitham]

87. I would rather have Bayh

Than Hill

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

90. Locking.

We re-banned this member.

best,
wakemeupwhenitsover