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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 06:32 PM
Original message
Remember when President Obama said this:
I have no interest in having a bill get passed that fails. That doesn't work. I intend to be president for a while, and once this bill passes, I own it.

It has been established that co-ops don't work. A trigger is a permanent punt, FAIL.

What is a reasonable alternative to a public option, one that will not lead to FAIL?

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PinkOwl Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. First please clarify. Are you implying that a robust P.O. will fail?
Edited on Mon Oct-19-09 06:39 PM by PinkOwl
I don't want to unfairly assert as a fact that you think that way. That's why I ask for a clarification. And by "fail," did he mean "fail to pass" or fail to be successful? Thanks.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. No, I'm asking
about the existence of an alternative to a public option that would achieve Obama's goals.

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PinkOwl Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Thanks. I've heard no serious analysis supporting the co-ops and "trigger"
Like you said, those proposals are dreams that P.O. opponents such as Baucus and Snowe are hanging on to in order to derail the public option.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Obama's stated goals there are not the word of God
He is, above all, a politician.

We will all see what happens when it hits the floor, and then his desk, and then your wallets
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Good point.
Obama isn't God.

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Nor does anyone want him to be..being President
Obama is good enough.

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Let "him" tell us. He says there are other options available
Edited on Mon Oct-19-09 06:39 PM by saracat
and he won't "demand" a solid Public Option". Nothing else , except single payer, would work.Apparently , those words don't mean a lot.As some have said"you can always fix the Bill later". Which it looks like the intention may be, if any intention at all is "really" there.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. You haven't been paying attention
Now, I have no interest in putting insurance companies out of business. They provide a legitimate service, and employ a lot of our friends and neighbors. I just want to hold them accountable. The insurance reforms that Ive already mentioned would do just that. But an additional step we can take to keep insurance companies honest is by making a not-for-profit public option available in the insurance exchange.

<...>

For example, some have suggested that that the public option go into effect only in those markets where insurance companies are not providing affordable policies. Others propose a co-op or another non-profit entity to administer the plan. These are all constructive ideas worth exploring. But I will not back down on the basic principle that if Americans cant find affordable coverage, we will provide you with a choice. And I will make sure that no government bureaucrat or insurance company bureaucrat gets between you and the care that you need.

link


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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. He has NEVER said "there are other options available".. What he has always
said was... If you have a better idea than a PO, show me.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for the reminder, PS! I believe
President Obama over some "anonymous sources" cited by fdl who just love to throw red meat to their followers whether it's tainted or not.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. ProSense, this almost has the structure of a trick question, lol
Or at least one for which an asnwer has already been prepared :)

Well aside from single payer, which legitimately must be considered off the table for now, I can't think of nuthin'(I assume you don't consider the state opt out variation of a public option as a completely different alternative).

So is your point perhaps that we can trust that Obama will sign a bill with the public option in it?
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. the senate finance committee version
to me, it's fail, but to Obama it's not perfect but better than nothing.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. You're confusing his desire to get a bill out of committee
with accepting it as an alternative. It will not achieve the goal Obama laid out because it fails to address controling costs.

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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. So there are these words in the passage you cited
"...the public option go into effect only in those markets where insurance companies are not providing affordable policies."

That sounds like a definition of a trigger mechanism, but I suppose nothing dictates that a trigger can't be pulled within the initial legislation itself, based on some application of current cost statistics for different geographic markets.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. "some have suggested that that..."
Try not to take the statement completely out of context.

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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. OK, I give up. Your thread, your move. I'll just wait n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Is it really that hard to
acknowledge that no viable alternative to a public option has been presented, that its support has grown, that Obama and the public supports it, and it has a really good chance of passing? Let me quote Harkin, from the NYT:

There are 52 solid Democrats for the public option, said Senator Tom Harkin, the Iowa Democrat who is chairman of the health committee. Only about five Democrats oppose it. Should the 52 give in to the five? Or should the five go along with the vast majority of the Democratic caucus?


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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I thought I already went there with you in post #5
...where I said in part:

"So is your point perhaps that we can trust that Obama will sign a bill with the public option in it?"

As you know that would please me greatly and I have in no way given up hope of that happening. I don't know what the odds are but I certainly don't think it's a long shot. Probably I think it's probable (depends on the hour you ask me). Support for the public option has grown, and support for President Obama has also. Both make it more difficult for conservative Democrats to oppose both it and him. And the House is strong and by far most Democratic Senators want it. These are all verygood things, because this done right is damn important.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. "is your point perhaps that we can trust that Obama will sign a bill with the public option in it?"
No, but do you expect him to veto one?

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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. No, neither one with or without it. .
I expect him to sign whatever emerges from Congress. His administration is represented in the all of the Congressional strategy talks from here on out.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. I also recall Jay Rockefeller's tart words....
during a Finance Committe hearing, that he didn't hold with anyone who said he wanted a bill to sign--didn't care what was in it--as long as he had a bill to sign. Rockefeller added that he didn't necessarily mean the president, but that goes beyond coy--who but the president signs bills? Rockefeller's well-briefed and I doubt he'd just spout off for no reason. We'll see, won't we?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I think that's bullshit..do you have a
link?
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. You can insult someone as a liar, ask them to hunt up a link--but not both.
.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Rockefeller also said
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. ........ and ............ crickets.
;)
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Fair enough. I don't begrudge Rockefeller also making that statement...
whether it serves to express a view, try and nudge the White House a bit, perhaps say something conciliatory after showing some vexation (even a Rockefeller doesn't profit from bad relations with the White House), or whatever combination of the above.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
25. Easy. Make the public option voluntary buy-in to Medicare n/t
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-20-09 05:03 AM
Response to Original message
26. K&R
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-21-09 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
29. It's been forgotten
by a lot of people..willfully and otherwise.
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