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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:27 PM
Original message
Senate Democrats watering down the public option: "It's not the public option you think"
Watering down the public option
By CARRIE BUDOFF BROWN
October 10, 2009

Senate Democrats are growing increasingly bold in predicting a public health insurance option will pass Congress this year, defying months of pessimism and outright opposition from party moderates.

But it’s not the “public option” you think.

Groping for a way out of a political bind, Democrats are defining down what constitutes a government-run insurance plan — and by extension, what it takes to declare victory.

At this point, Senate Democrats are signaling they could get behind just about anything they could plausibly call the public option —from a “trigger” that could kick in a public insurance plan later, to Delaware Sen. Tom Carper’s proposal to give states an option to create a government program.

“It’s a tried-and-true legislative strategy for getting everyone to ‘yes,’ ” said a Democratic strategist familiar with congressional leadership strategy. “Narrow your differences by broadening the definition of what constitutes success.”

The Democrats haven’t exactly been subtle in this move-the-goalposts effort.

This doctrine of maximum flexibility originated in the White House, as the president and his aides frustrated Democratic activists for months with their refusal to specify what exactly “public option” means. But it wasn’t until the past week or so, as alternatives to the traditional public option emerged, that more Senate Democrats began to acknowledge a new point of reference.


Senate Democrats are defining down what constitutes a public plan -- and what it takes to declare victory.

Please read the complete article at:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28153.html


-------------------------------------------

Good Day For Baucus, Bad Day For Real Reform
By Jon Walker
October 13, 2009

I’m sure Chairman Baucus, Senate Majority Leader Reid, and President Obama are all pleased that Republican senator Olympia Snowe voted for the Baucus bill in committee. Their goals have long been to pass anything they could slap the label “health care reform” on and declare victory. Sadly, Snowe’s support could signal a bad day for real reform.

Snowe has long been opposed to some of the most important elements of reform. I’m not just referring to her opposition to a real public option and her support for a worthless trigger proposal.

Snowe opposes a real employer mandate, and instead favors a disastrously stupid “free rider” provision. It could have serious consequences for low-income workers.

She is against giving the exchanges the power to negotiate with private insurance companies. This is a provision that should help keep down the cost of health care. It would save individuals money and the government money. Snowe fears it is too much government involvement. John Kingsdale, who runs Massachusetts’s exchange, called Snowe’s insistence that the exchanges not have the power to negotiate price with insurance companies a recipe for disaster.

Just today, during the committee hearing, she reaffirmed her support for “national plans.” This would allow health insurance companies to sell national plans in any states. Individuals state would lose the power to regulate these insurance plans sold in their states. The national plans would be exempt from all minimum benefit requirements mandated by the state legislature. This has been for a long time one of the top goals of the for-profit health insurance industry.

Please read the complete article at:

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/10/13/good-day-for-baucus-bad-day-for-real-reform/

--------------------------------------------

She May Be on the Other Team, But She Called All the Plays
By Dana Milbank
Washington Post Staff Writer
October 14, 2009

Sen. Olympia Snowe, Republican of Maine, is fast becoming the Brett Favre of the political world: She has trouble making up her mind, but she sure knows how to play ball.

Congress's answer to Favre is Snowe, the wiry New Englander who, for the past several months, has been unable -- or unwilling -- to take a position on health-care legislation. The longer she held out, the more concessions Democrats made to win her over, to the point where she became, arguably, the single most influential member of Congress drafting the legislation, even though she is a member of the minority party.

Democrats negotiated with her for months; President Obama wooed her personally. Olympia wants amendments? She gets amendments. Olympia needs more time? The Senate Finance Committee delays its vote. Olympia opposes government-run insurance? Voilà -- the public option is gone.

The coy routine was working so well for Snowe that, as she walked into the Hart Building on Tuesday morning for the committee vote on the legislation, she claimed she still hadn't made a decision.

Finally, three hours later, the wavering lawmaker was ready to announce her position. Sort of. "Is this bill all that I would want? Is it all that it can be? No," said Snowe. "But when history calls, history calls." After this halfhearted announcement that she was, with "reservations," becoming the only Republican to vote with the Democrats, she added a warning: "My vote today is my vote today. It doesn't forecast what my vote will be tomorrow."

Give that woman a Lombardi Trophy.

Read the complete article at:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/13/AR2009101301771.html?hpid=topnews


--------------------------------------------



Harry Reid, unhealthy for America
The Senate majority leader's position on healthcare reform is based on what is best for him, not the rest of the country
By Hugh Jackson
October 12, 2009

If you would like to be satisfied with Senate majority leader Harry Reid's position on healthcare reform, please select from the following menu:

28 August: "I am in favour of the public option. ... There's a lot of people who misunderstand this. They think it's some government programme. But there are many ways we can do it. One would be to have an entity like Medicare. I really don't favour that. I think what we should have is a private entity that ... has direction from the federal government, so that people who don't fall within the parameters of being able to get insurance from their employer, they would have a place to go."

10 September: "If we can come up with a concept of a co-operative that does just that, that is, it makes more competition and makes insurance companies honest, yes, I think that would fit the bill."

24 September: A "trigger" by which there would only be a public option if insurance companies fail to meet unspecified conditions is "a pretty doggone good idea".

1 October: "Remember, a public option is a relative term. ... There's a public option, there's a public option and there's a public option. And we're going to look at each of them."

To recap: Reid supports whatever can get 60 votes. He also supports the public option, so long as it's private, a co-op, a trigger and finally, an ethereal concept.

Please read the complete article at:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/oct/12/harry-reid-healthcare-senate
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Any word from the House progressives? For real instead of this b.s.
Edited on Tue Oct-13-09 09:31 PM by babylonsister
speculation? :eyes:

Opinions are like assholes. We all have one, even pundits.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Dingell, the poster-boy of insurance company goons.....
( :sarcasm: of course!)

Seems quite pleased....

Dingell praises Finance Committee vote
By Jordan Fabian - 10/13/09 04:49 PM ET
Rep. John Dingell (D-Mich.), a strong supporter of a public health insurance option, on Tuesday praised the Senate Finance Committee's vote to pass their bill, which does not contain a public plan.


Though Dingell said differences between House and Senate legislation would have to be worked out, he commended the panel for bringing "us much closer to making the comprehensive health insurance reform our nation desperately needs a reality."


Dingell reiterated his support for a public option, saying "there are important battles ahead, and those of us supporting a strong public option will have to continue our hard work."

"But we clearly have common ground from which we can build upon," he added.


While some liberal Democrats have criticized Baucus' plan for not doing enough to reduce costs, Dingell said all bills before Congress "create quality, affordable health care for tens of millions of Americans who right now have no coverage."


All versions of the legislation before the House contain a public option, while the Finance bill proposed by chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) contains non-profit health insurance co-ops, not a government-run plan.

Dingell, the longest-serving House member, has long favored healthcare reform and has been one of the only House Democrats to speak out on the Senate Finance Committee's vote to advance their bill.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/62885-dingell-praises-finance-committee-vote
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. .
:rofl:

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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I think it needs an OP.........
.... it's all yours kid! Have at it! (if you haven't posted it already)
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Thanks. done. n/t
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kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. thanks for posting this
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. and it's amazing how easy this stuff is to find....
.... you just fire up the old Google, type it in and there it is!

(the more I think about it, I think Obama invented Google and is just to modest to admit it)
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. The Dems, for a change, voted together. That's notable.
Who knows what the future will bring?

I'm hoping a PO, because Democrats might get energized.

And I need health insurance suddenly, so it's become really important and personal to me.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Just speculation. Snowe had nothing to do with the Senate bill.

You so smart!

Of course we all have opinions. And yes we all have assholes along with other body parts. Thanks for that golden nugget of wisdom.

So what's your point .... we're all assholes except for everyone who agrees with you and your favored writers and that we should ignore the opinions of all others because they have assholes?

Yet another profound "political" or biological observation!





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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. No, but you have a HUGE tendency to cite people who think the
worst. And bite me. My opinion is just as valid as yours, which is usually negative, and you sure can find them.

Tough if you don't like my outlook.


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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. You opinion might be wrong based on factual evidence and historical events. Ever consider that?
Edited on Tue Oct-13-09 09:59 PM by Better Believe It
And if my opinion turns out to be right, your opinion would not be as valid as mine .... or in plain words .... just dead wrong!

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. When you find factual evidence, let me know. nt
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Just read the posts of me and others who don't just repeat White House talking points ....

and DLC political spin.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Look at the links you provided. Opinion, and if that's your opinion,
and it is, enough said.

I don't agree with you and never will, so don't bother arguing with me. I don't have any faith that you will tell the truth.

Good night.



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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. ok, so here's a serious question.......
.... devoid of personal attacks or petty insults.

If we presume that a public option in the final bill will either be watered down or non-existent, then we have to presume that the Senators .... you know the ones .... the ones I keep citing .... are either naively misguided or lying to us?

Or........? (I'll even give you a chance at a third option)

Which is it?
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Baltoman991 Donating Member (869 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. LMAO!!!
You, of all people, should not even be talking about factual information seeing as how all you bring to this board are OPINION PIECES from Politico, Commondreams, Howard Fineman and other hacks who find folks like YOU who will eat their bullshit spew up and regurgitate it on as many boards as you can find.

You do the work for them in actually getting their OPINIONS out for others to read.

Notice I keep capitalizing the word OPINION? It's for a reason. I'm sure you're bright enough to figure it out.

Many here have shown you the facts and you ignore them completely and rely on the garbage the media spews. Thats no ones fault but your own.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. I TOLD YOU SO.
This is what we get for allowing that abortion of a bill out of committee today. Are you all happy?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Why are you always launching personal attacks on DU'ers you disagree with?
Edited on Tue Oct-13-09 09:48 PM by Better Believe It
Can't you at least try to engage in civil debate and discussion? This is not a trash talk board.

If that's what you'd rather engage in perhaps you should look for a different discussion board that encourages personal attacks and trash talk.

If you continue to engage it that sort of activity I and others will simply put you on ignore.

Now shape up or ship out!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. Oh please. The poster he was replying to told people to "fuck off"
who were unrec his thread earlier today. I didn't see you around acting like a net nanny then.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Yep, it would seem that "Club Happy" includes.....
.... but is not limited to, Senator Schumer, Rep Dingell, Senator Rockefeller, Senator Harkin, Senator Dodd Speaker Pelosi AND the leader of the Free World.

Those less than enthused include Senators McConnell, Ensign and Grassley.

Sometimes I'm reminded of the old Pete Seeger AFL-CIO song, "Which side are you on boys .... which side are you on?" ;)

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hate to ruin your night, but
as of today, it's still alive and gaining strength.

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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
9. Medicare for all isn't what all of you think it is either!
I fell in the kitchen 6 weeks ago and tore the ligament from the side of my knee and had 3 hairline fractures as well. I'm on Medicare and if I also didn't have a supplement ins. instead of my OP costs being $1,000 they would have been over $6,000!

Tonight at dinner m/y husband said "I don't understand why so many other countries can have health care for everyone & we can't!" My response was that taxes in other countries aren't seen as worse than being tortured and murdered as they are here. Nobody likes taxes, bu to pay them because they want & need the benefits they get.

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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yep
If the Public Option ever sees the light of day it will be nothing like what was first envisioned.
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
24. American voters to Senate Democrats: "RE: Your re-election potential...it's not what you think."
DO YOUR JOB and stop protecting the WEALTHY insurance companies!

We will replace you!!
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. But, but, but it's almost better than nothing!
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