Sooooo... the 2nd wave to bring Health Care Reform to a Halt starts Monday Morning, hey?

[FrenchieCat]

Don't believe me?
Watch your cable "news" starting with the early morning shows.

They will have GOP members come mouth their talking points,
with their PriceWaterhouse paid for Insurance CO. Report.

The CBO report turned out great for the White House....
so this is the Insurance Industries' Plan B.

They will do whatever it takes at this time,
and the GOP and the Corporate media will do whatever they can
to assist.


So What are we gonna do about this?

We've already got the trolls coming here putting in their 2 cents,
about how the Baucus bill needs to be killed in committee....
like somehow that will help anyone.

If I were you and me, I'd get on the phone and start calling the media
and writing to them. Let them know we ain't buying the "News" from
some Insurance Industry paid-for-report about how bad health care reform
would be. We ain't gonna get hoodwinked, like they were able to do back in 1993.

If we don't do it,
Health Care is about to get swiftboated.


Usual Media Suspect hard at work.....

Insurers escalate criticism of health overhaul
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091012/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul_insurers

AHIP report to take whack at SFC bill
http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1009/AHIP_report_to_take_whack_at_SFC_bill.html

New Bill Would Raise Rates, Says Insurance Group
Report Issued Before Key Committee Vote
By Ceci Connolly <--- :rofl:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/11/AR2009101102207_pf.html


Sooooo,


Is the Insurance Industry Declaring War?
http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-treatment/breaking-the-insurance-industry-declares-war

Youbetcha!

Rent-A-Research
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/10/rent-a-research.php

ALSO, THEY WANT TO KEEP THIS NEWS OUT OF THE "NEWS"....

Medical malpractice reform savings would be small, report says
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-malpractice10-2009oct10,0,4877440.story



THINK THIS WILL BE BROUGHT UP BY THE TALKING HEADS?
THINK AGAIN!


So man your post!

This is WAR!

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[demodonkey]

1. IMPORTANT INFORMATION in this post! Keep kicked, please! k&r nt

[WCGreen]

2. K n R

[Parker CA]

3. K&R

[pot luck]

4. K&R nt.

[dmr]

5. Good idea, going to print this out

thanks!

:)

[FrenchieCat]

6. Nice Kitty! :)

Might have to borrow that one!

[dmr]

12. +1

:)

[FrenchieCat]

7. AND you Assholes unRECing my OP......KISS MY MF

GRITS!

and then go there.....

[Pab Sungenis]

23. Why shouldn't we?

You and the other Blue DUgs keep unrec'ing mine.

Or is unrec only good for those that agree with you?

[berni_mccoy]

27. Blue DUgs? Frenchie is anything *but* that. If you are unrecing this, you've missed the point.

[Pab Sungenis]

37. It seems it's an apt description.

By backing the Baucus Bill, Frenchie's fighting against progressive reform, caving to Republican pressure, and criticizing those who oppose the bill ad hominem.

Blue Dog tactics applied on DU. Blue DUgs is a good way of describing people like that.

[FrenchieCat]

46. I'm not backing shit......

I just happen to know that this is passing a bill out of committee....
and it is the perception that will make or break any bill that counts.
In this case, if the bill gets killed in committee,
as far as the news media and the GOP is concerned,
that will be the end of health care reform.

You can be for nothing to pass and believe that makes you the progressive,
but in actuality, it makes you the status quo....even if just a "Bah Humbug" one.

You see, in the end, it isn't about the procedures that got us there....
it's getting there....
and with what you advocate, we get nowhere, and in fact,
the rest of Pres. Obama's agenda also becomes a big question mark.

Better believe that.

[Pab Sungenis]

49. I'm for progress.

This is not a bill that will bring progress. It will make the situation worse. It's been confirmed that it will raise insurance costs. It won't even come close to universal coverage. It will turn thousands of poor into criminals.

This bill, if we allow it to pass, won't get us there. It will push us further away.

"Change" for change's sake is not a good thing.

[Undercurrent]

8. Excellent OP.

Good info.
Saved and recommended.

Thank you!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

9. K&R

[DesertFlower]

10. K&R. nt

[Joe Bacon]

11. Oh, somebody stick a fork in Ceci Connolly

She's such a sleazy press whore!

[saracat]

13. But the Bachus Bill DOES need to be killed and those that want it killed are NOT trolls.

I will dial ceaselessly to ask that that abomination be KILLED. Public healthcare for ALL.Bachus is an insurance comapny toadie and the world knows it. The Insurance Industry's opposition is to anything and it is only that they never feel they get enough. But the Bachus Bill is still a huge payday to them and the lady doth protest too much.They know it!
It would be far better for us to have nothing than the Bachus Bill, it is that bad.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saracat]

15. Lovely. What would be far better is Healthcare for ALL

and with a Dem majority in both houses and the presidency there is NO reason NOT to have it.Chuck Schumer said ALL the Dems play on the presidents team and would vote for whatever he wanted on Scaborough. If that is indeed so, why can't we at least have a PO that covers ALL citizens? Why are we still kissing GOP ass and why do we put bipartisanship which isn't reciprocated above the needs of the people?

[Webster Green]

74. Indeed!

We have the majority we need. If they wimp out on this, it's despicable. :banghead:

[annabanana]

16. BOOKMARK!!

this is a keeper

[cornermouse]

17. Opposing a bad bill does not make someone a troll.

Calling them trolls before they post is nothing more than an attempt to silence any dissenting voices within the party.

This bill is a turkey. We need a single payer/Medicare type bill.
This bill will come back and bite the democratic party in the rear if it is passed because only a few people out of the many who are counting on help will get it. That will turn to anger and people will take it to the polls.

Count on it.

[yourguide]

18. Single payer would be great

but the public option (if it stays in the bill even with an opt out) is a compromise that would allow millions of americans to get health care coverage that couldnt otherwise afford it, let's not lose sight of the goal of ALL Americans being able to be covered.

The opt-out will also allow voters to show their displeasure in the voting booth if indeed any state is stupid/partisan enough to opt-out and deny their constituents health care.

Single payer again would be amazing but the compromise of a public option would still help millions.

[cornermouse]

42. And its going to exclude millions more.

Do you really think they're going to say "Oh well, you tried" or do you think they're going to get mad at being barred from getting health care?

The opt-out is also stupid. Again, you're only looking at this from the democratic perspective. That is a big mistake. Most people aren't interested on whether it looks artistic, they're worried about whether it works. This won't work.

[Cleita]

54. How can something that covers everyone because that is the way the program

works exclude millions? Honestly, where do you get this shit? Probably, from the guy who already has a really good health plan paid for by taxpayers, I'll bet. For a change start adding things up and think for yourself.

[cornermouse]

80. Cover everyone as in force them to buy insurance

out of their own pocket and make the burden of meeting all their bills either more difficult or impossible? Cover everyone as in those just hanging on by their fingernails now that will be told they can afford insurance premiums whether they can or not because they don't qualify for the free portion of the program but barely had enough to pay their bill before congress passed it?

Single payer or universal health insurance was the only common sense approach with current insurance payments or medicare pay in diverted to the government but it was trashed.

[Cleita]

83. That's the corporate health insurance plan that Wellpoint through Senator

Baucus wants to foist on you. With true universal health care like extending Medicare to everyone, you would be covered regardless of your ability to pay because a percentage will come out of your paycheck like it does now for FICA, but instead of only old people being covered, everyone would be covered. If you don't have a job, like if you are a child or handicapped you still would be covered like every one else. That's what universal health care is. Mandating people and companies to buy from the private insurers does leave a portion of the population still uninsured and it's not universal. What Congre$$ is trying to do right now is criminal and it's not universal. It's letting the corporate insurance company make profits at the expense of sick people and the population at large.

[yourguide]

59. If red states opt out

I can imagine, especially based on the very high percentage of people in red states without insurance, that any states that opt out would feel the wrath of their voters...that's why the opt out works. None of these idiots would keep their jobs if they were denied coverage by their leaders.

[cornermouse]

79. You're wrong.

You're flat out wrong and you refuse to see or admit you're wrong. And the only thing that will convince you is time. So time it is.

[dionysus]

20. if they have trouble getting a public option, how on earth do you expect blue dogs to vote for

single payer? i don't understand how this concept cannot be grasped...

[Chan790]

28. Because Blue Dogs like their cushy jobs...

and if the choice were forced upon them as Single-Payer or go back to their constituents who overwhelmingly want health-care reform and tell them they failed, they're not going to choose nothing over something when nothing means a 100% certainty of losing in the next primary or general election.

I am going to confess something here that I have never admitted on DU before, because it's relevant. In college, I was a College Republican...one of the upper cadre from a major-university politics program in DC who was being groomed to do utterly Rovian/Atwatereque work; the filthy war-at-all-costs sh%t-smearing non-conventional political-warfare. I was, and in the sense that I am still friends with some of the people I was in cohorts with then, still am one of them except that I saw the light and figured out that "compassionate conservatism" is anything but compassionate and conservatism is a morally-bankrupt dead ideology. What I mean is I still know the one single "big secret" they have which is actually true...liberals lose for one reason and one reason only, because we refuse to put civil-discourse and rational-behavior on the shelf and wade into the fray with bayonets drawn and begin gutting mercilessly. Liberals will always negotiate from a position of weakness even when we have the upper hand. Politics is not a game for the philosophical. I know, if we kill health-care reform...45,000 Americans will continue to die every year...you can't think about them; if the corporatists get their way and get us to compromise, those people are already dead.

Want to win? I don't mean get a workable compromise; I mean really win in the sense of getting exactly what we want? Then stop playing fair. Offer Blue Dogs (and by extension their conservative overlords and the industries backing them) exactly what they want...only no reform whatsoever. The onward continuation of the system as exists currently. (It's anathema to what the majority of Americans want.) Force them to walk the plank of their own making back into the angry sea of the American people. The enemy knows that is their only weakness and they do not fear it only because they also know that it is not in our natures to be so cold-blooded. They need to learn that they are wrong so that they may fear us.

If we kill any compromise, they will be forced to compromise with our loaded gun upon their temples or die politically...their quislings amongst us as well. I'd prefer personally that they all died but that choice is up to them and theirs.

The time for an aggressive militant liberalism is upon us. To quote our esteemed President, "We are the ones we have been waiting for." The tide is in our favor; the time for moderation, thoughtfulness and reason is not upon us. Let us take our birthright, a better society for all...a fool once spoke of "a shining city upon a hill whose beacon light guides freedom-loving people everywhere" never knowing it is our city, our beacon light, and our hill. It is not theirs, they cannot have it.

[bertman]

29. I'm with you Chan790!! Here we Democrats have gone from fiercely wanting a universal

health care plan to being willing to settle for a plan that gets the cost under the TRILLION DOLLAR MARK. That bill is the Senate Baucus piece-of-shit bill with NO PUBLIC OPTION.

You are right. We are trying to negotiate from a position of total capitulation (not even weakness). Thanks to Rahm Emanuel our President started out negotiating from the middle.

Thanks for putting your $.02 worth into this discussion.

[ChiciB1]

58. Well At Least John Edwards Was Right About ONE Thing... THEY ARE EATING

ALL THE FOOD!! Flame me, and him... but he DID say it!!

That reaching across the aisle shit is for the birds!! Well, actually birds at least can fly away to another tree or something... I can't fly... YET!

[noiretextatique]

47. so disappointing to see democrats refusing to take advantage of their majority

and support of the people. republicons shoved their agenda through without the support of the public. :wtf: why can't democrats get the message?

[onehandle]

26. We need a foot in the door. The GOP knows that a heath care bill will one day lead to single payer.

The first bill will be basecamp.

This is how war works.

[cornermouse]

41. The GOP would never had submitted anything this weak.

You're not looking at this through the eyes of the people hoping for help and you seem to have forgotten that how they see this proceeding is how they will identify the democratic party. Since the democratic party got back in the door, they've been living up to every single one of the stereotypes that the GOP has told us repeatedly. Big mistake.

[Baltoman991]

44. Last I checked

the GOP hasn't submitted anything in the last 30 years for the average American, weak or otherwise.

The bill, while not the greatest, is a start. If we allow the GOP to submit a stronger bill, hell, we'll all be dead before that ever happens.

And no, Democrats are not living up to every stereotype thrown out by Republicans. They spew lies about our side without a shred of proof to back any of it up.

[cornermouse]

45. What the heck are you talking about?

The GOP just spent the last 8+ years passing everything harmful that they could think up, so technically they do pass things.

The problem. Again. Is that you're looking at this only from your perspective. What the democratic congress is trying to pass now is worse than nothing. It is intended to put a stake through the heart of single-payer/medicare. It's really unfortunate you refuse to see this.

[Garam_Masala]

62. On the contrary a weak bill is easy to rescind by next congress

A strong bill with single payer can not be easily rescinded similar
to medicare has never been rescinded....because it covers every one
with SINGLE PAYER!

[Peacetrain]

19. K & R... I have to admit, I am getting exhausted

The continual whining, and gnashing of teeth, 24/7 is starting to grind on my last nerve.

But I am not going to fall to the negativity.

So manning the phones.. All hands on deck

Edit to clarify... The continual whining and gnashing of teeth by the MSM..

[fugop]

21. K&R. nt

[Pab Sungenis]

22. Bring it to a halt? I want to kill the Baucus bill to SAVE reform.

The Baucus bill will either effectively kill the reform effort, or pervert it into an even bigger money grab for the insurance industry. That's why this bill needs to die. We can't count on Harry Reid to not make it the centerpiece of the final Senate legislation, so we need to keep it away from the floor.

[bertman]

30. I agree with you Pab Sungenis.

[Inuca]

24. Great info, Frenchie

K&R

[tabbycat31]

25. K&R

[bertman]

31. Although I don't agree with your assessment that we need to save the Baucus bill, I do

agree with your assessment that the second-wave Corporatist offensive has begun. The bastards are saturating the airwaves in North Carolina with ads saying that there's going to be BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF NEW TAXES on citizens if the healthcare reform passes. This is the handiwork of the Chamber of Commerce vampires.

Thanks for the alert and the contact info. But, just to let you know, when I call, I'll be demanding Medicare for All Americans.

Anything less than Medicare as an option for ALL Americans who want it is a loss.

[FrenchieCat]

32. We can always agree to disagree......

Because at the end of it all, one thing that we can both be certain of;
it's that there has never been total reform of anything in government
done in a day. Check history for that.

[bertman]

34. Medicare for any American who chooses it is not TOTAL reform--only a decent first step. There

would still be millions of people who would stay with their existing insurance for myriad reasons: fear of change, good coverage at a reasonable rate, dislike of Medicare, someone else is paying for their policy.

The problem is that Medicare for all would be a huge hit on the bottom line of the for-profit insurance industry. Our bought-and-sold Congresscritters are scared to death to do that to some of their biggest and most reliable donors.

[FrenchieCat]

35. Keep preaching for single payer at this time......

cause it certainly couldn't hurt......

[bertman]

39. I would love to see single payer, FrenchieCat, but I don't consider Medicare for All

Americans to be single payer. Single payer would be the government taking over healthcare for all Americans and only leaving the supplemental coverage to the insurance companies.

Medicare for All Americans would only be an OPTIONAL insurance opportunity placed on the buffet table for Americans to pick from. If I wanted to stick with my current plan I could do so without any penalty. Now that's choice.

Cheers.

[unapatriciated]

52. no nothing has been done in a day.

I have been working for HCR since 1991 and many have been advocating it longer than I have.
We see this as our one chance at real reform not a bill that is set up to fail. The majority wants single payer and if not that a strong public option. What good is a foot in the door if it is slammed shut for another twenty years.
It's time to push that door open.

[FrenchieCat]

33. More on the Insurance Industry frontal assault on the last bill needed to be voted out of committee:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/10/the_insurance_industrys_decept.html

[Pab Sungenis]

38. We don't NEED that bill voted out of committee.

All we NEED to do is hold the line against a filibuster and pass the Kennedy bill!

[FrenchieCat]

40. And pigs would fly.....if they had wings, that is.

For you to think that an issue that has been part of the ideological battle fought for the last 40 years would somehow be that simple in getting through, with a big fail in the finance committee, where all of the focus has been put by the media really is believing that pigs fly.

Sorry, but what you are talking about would not play out the way that you are saying it could.....
not in a long shot.

[hay rick]

36. K&R

[Uzybone]

43. KnR. Get that POS bill out of that POS committee

Baucus will never deliver a better bill. His bill will die in conference, but we need to get past this stonewalling.

[FrenchieCat]

48. Thank you.

Tell that to the so called "progressives" who are advocating the killing this bill in committee,
as with that they are actually advocating health care reform...and that's not a progressive position,
it is a status quo position because advocating their position means nothing happens....
and worse, the rest of Obama's agenda also will fail, as we would be giving media and their GOP cohorts a very good excuse to call him ineffective.

[Stargazer09]

50. K & R n/t

[neuvocat]

51. Frenchie if you don't work for someone in Congress

then you should. You get what the think-tanks are up to in the beltway and see them coming from 100 miles out.

[FrenchieCat]

55. My daughter interned last summer for Barbara Lee, my friend and congressperson!

That's how close as I have gotten.... :(

[Cleita]

53. Not to point fingers but I remember back in July when some of us insisted that

we had to demand single payer, everyone jumped on us because they said that if we did that we would get nothing. And we said that if we didn't demand single payer, we wouldn't even get a compromise like Medicare access for those who want it. We really would get nothing and so it appears we single payer lefty communists were right. We are getting nothing, but the insurance industry doesn't even think that is enough. There isn't enough in tax payer subsidies handed to them so they are saying no way. Apparently everyone who was so willing to let the insurance industry write a health care package for their benefit because they were hoping a few bones would be thrown their way are in shock now. I hope you see what is going on and we are going to have to go another round, but this time no namby pamby compromise before there is a deal. Demand the whole store and that is single payer until they are really willing to sit at a negotiating table with the real representatives of the people present who have up until now been barred from any meaningful negotiating powers.

[FrenchieCat]

56. I did see it differently from you.......

I saw and heard President Obama specifically NOT campaigning on Single Payer, and I witnessed him get elected without ever pushing or promoting such....and if he would have made that the starting point, I don't think that health care reform would have gotten as far as it has to date. First there would have been that flip flop label, then the "Government takeover" would have actually had some steam out of the gate. Instead, the "Government takeover" sentiments have lost in this contest, and more rational heads seem to have prevailed (I realize that it ain't done till it is done, but still, the polling figures do give us quite a bit of encouragement).

Sometimes starting from a point that can be painted as totally extreme (and it would have been.....just ask your media), and where all of the players (big pharma, hospitals, and various interest groups) start out against you, what you would have witnessed was another 1993, plain and simple....and I believe that Health Care would have been already lost by now.

Now, you can speculate all you want about whatifs, and coulda/woulda/shoulda, and I'm sure that you could make an excellent case, but the bottomline is that it would be still that; total speculation without any proof that somehow we'd be along any further.

[Cleita]

57. For sure we definitely aren't any further along now, so wouldn't it make

sense to drop what didn't work and try something else? Maybe it won't work either, however, if it doesn't then you can pick on me instead.

[FrenchieCat]

61. You saying that we definitely aren't any further along now is just you saying this......

without anything other than a theory that if you start high, you come down and still end up in a good place. Sounds rational, but it isn't really, because the high we speak of would have been demonized so quickly and so effectively that it would have been more than tragic (see 1993 as my presented evidence).

My theory, on the other hand is, the higher they come, the harder they fall....as that would have been what would have happened. My further proof is that if Pharma, the hospital industry, Insurance Co. and certain previously hostile special Interest groups (AMA and ARRP) wouldn't have been sitting at the table as long as they have, they would have been in full attack mode instead, we wouldn't wouldn't be this close.

Remember that the template would be a young "other" President that some didn't "trust" as he has only been in office a short while...would have been seen as reniging on what he suggested his health plan would look like throughout his entire election campaign. One of the things he stressed all along was allowing folks to keep what they had. So him all of the sudden putting down on the table Single Payer would have not only been the end of health care reform out of the gate, but it would most likely been the end of his presidency....and all of the talk of him being a socialist and a communist would have been justified by the media as exactly where this President was going. In otherwords, the Teabaggers and the Town Hall Protestors (all the same sore losers from the last election) would have been made to appear sane; and of course, we all can see now that those folks' lack of sanity helped us get to where we currently are......even if you might not buy into that....just check the polls, and the Republicans' standing on health care reform.

[Cleita]

64. Wow, you've never had to buy a used car or sell one, have you?

You may not end up selling the car to the first bidder or buying the first time you make an offer. But that's how it's done. It's just good old fashioned horse trading. It's been with us since we tamed horses and the same principles are operative regardless of what you are negotiating for. I get the feeling that you think we are criticizing Obama every time we talk about health care. Obama really has nothing to do with this. He only promised to bring up the issue again since the Clintons buried after it failed and the Bush administration totally ignored it. He has fulfilled his promise. He made Congress work on it again. We have been arguing this issue in one way or the other since Hillary's health care plan went down in flames long before anyone knew there was a Barack Obama there who would become President of the United States. It's not Obamacare regardless of what the whore media would like you to believe or all the lobbyists on "K" street.

Obama actually hasn't said his final word on it. So chill, really and try to look at the issue from a practical point of view. The only real thing that needs to be said is that Medicare should be made available to everyone who wants it, especially if they pay into it with their FICA payroll tax. It's so simple, I can believe we have to go through this whole political rigamarole. But we must. However, don't defend a plan that you think Obama is behind when, in fact no one knows what he will settle on in the end.

[FrenchieCat]

65. Health care is not a used car, and those buying are concerned about more than just the price.....

You commented on the Administration's approach and how if he coulda/woulda/shoulda, that would have gotten us to a different place, and a better place at that. That's the argument that you started out with here in this thread. Now, you can try to change it or temper it or whatever, but it was what it was until just now.

My point remains; the American people are easily manipulated, and Single Payer is exactly what would have scared them away to a point of no coming back no matter the use of a good PR campaign. The President knows this; Bill and Hillary Clinton knows this; the media knows this; the GOP knows this; and many of us know this.

In otherwords, I don't believe that dealing with health care like it was a car at an auction would have worked as you anticipated it in the case of health care....and I have clearly told you what backs up my belief....and it has little to do with the sale of a car or the trading of horses.

[Cleita]

66. I agree. It shouldn't be, but it is being sold for money and to the highest

bidder. However, I am not talking about money, but a system of delivery to make sure everyone gets the health care they need. So don't you need to have a bartering position otherwise? Think about the horses right now. One guy has an old nag he wants to get a good price for. (Think the insurance companies). Some one else has a nice healthy horse he wants to trade. (single payer health insurance). Are you going to trade the healthy horse for the broken down old nag? No! You ask the owner what else does he have? That guy brings out a nice mule but he won't trade it unless you take the nag with it. Deal! You trade single payer, for a public option and you are stuck with the insurance companies for awhile. But like the old nag, they will die sooner rather than later.

[FrenchieCat]

67. We will be getting Health Care reform soon, Cleita.

and it will be a strong enough bill to eventually get to where we want to go.

Today, the Insurance Industry overplayed its hand, and will be of no cover for those
cowardly Democrats who sit on the fence to check daily to see which way the wind is blowing.

The Insurance Industry lost, got outplayed, and their Plan B...which is all that this new
"report" is has been panned and is DOD in terms of credibility. That's the good news,
based on what I can conclude...and there are not enough days for "polling" to come out
and be used as a tool by those who want nothing; i.e., no health care reform for whatever
their reason.

Rest assure that we are both working for the same thing....
even if we differ on how to get there....
and let's face it; it's not about what is being offered.....
it is about how that offer will be translated by those who need to understand it.
In this case, I'm afraid that too much of the Government's hand in a plan from the get-go
wouldn't have sold enough used cars, or horses for that matter.

[DeeDeeNY]

60. K & R

:kick:

[Althaia]

63. so much for the ins co's vaunted cooperation with reform

It was all a show, to save themselves from going out of business due to single payer. When it finally comes down to a bill actually getting out of committee (no matter how dreadful the reform bill is, and Baucus is bad, no question), they up and take their ball and run home.

If they don't want to play anymore, I say to heck with them. I want single payer NOW! The insurance companies have just proven that they are not dealing in good faith, and I think that they no longer deserve a seat at the decision-making table.

[JDPriestly]

68. Where is the CBO report on single payer?

We don't need the Baucus bill. We need single payer.

I was open to compromise, but now that I see where it lead, I want single payer, no less will do.

While I'm responding, FrenchieCat, does Obama pay you to stick up for him?

Who cares about the Baucus bill. We have four other bills. Why do we have to wait. I have never seen anyone botch a job like Baucus has. He is incompetent, a poor leader, a poor advocate. He does not belong in the Senate.

[FrenchieCat]

70. Did John Edwards give you anything special to advocate his positions?

and what does this thread really have to do with Obama other than the fact that I want Health Care reform, and I want this President to fucking succeed in giving it to us?

Maybe you don't want this president to be successful, but you certainly did a lot of advocating for that Edwards character. Did he advocate Single Payer?....cause I don't remember that about John Edwards' platform. As for your insult aimed at me; I'll reciprocate; did John Edwards ever pay you, or did you pay him?

[JDPriestly]

76. Edwards was, I believe, the first to propose Medicare for all as one choice

along with everything else. No. I was not employed by Edwards. I donated to his campaign.

You did not answer whether Obama pays you.

I support healthcare reform, but I do not support the Baucus bill. It shifts too much of the cost of universal health care to the middle class which is already paying too great a share of our national costs.

[FrenchieCat]

78. Hell, I wrote an entire OP answering your question.....

It was called.....I am not nor have I ever been paid for posting anywhere, at anytime....blah, blah, blah!

You must have missed it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6456536


It was locked, and I was asked next time to simply alert...which I did.
However, you post stood, so there you go....even when I follow instructions,
I still get treated like shit.

[JDPriestly]

85. I never saw that. If someone besides me asked, you might want to think

about why people get the impression that you are somehow paid by the Obama organization.

[Flying Dream Blues]

69. Thanks for the great info, K&R... nt

[humbled_opinion]

71. Sorry... but I agree with the assesment..

The Insurance industry will rape us. The Baucus bill makes it mandatory to have and maintain insurance under penalty (personally I think that is unconstitutional) so I know that those of us who have insurance are going to get slammed with increased costs and no outlet because....drum roll please......

There is no single payer option. This cannot pass law without a govt option without medicare availability through my employer and the money I pay in taxes to medicare now.

If the people are warning you that they fully intend to increase your prices and you go ahead and pass this law then we have nothing but FOOLS running this country.

[FrenchieCat]

72. The Baucus bill is one of 5 bills......

The problem as I see it is that this bill has to get out of committee in order for us to go beyond mandatory and fines, something none of the other bills have in them.

It is great that you have an opinion, however, I question how informed it is. You see, the media is looking at this as the lithmus test in terms of anything passing. Once this passes, it goes on from there. If this doesn't pass, (because of the kind of press a defeat here would have), then nothing will.

I'm glad reform isn't singularily up to you......
otherwise, I fear another 1993 would be at play.
Thank goodness it appears that won't be the case.

[humbled_opinion]

84. You are wrong.

Democratic leadership control the House, Senate and the WH. Its now or never we must petition our leaders to act like leaders sometimes they have to put politics aside and do whats right for the People. Courage, sorely lacking on capital hill.

Now that said; what makes you so confident that after the MESS called Baucus bill which punishes people and is undemocratic not to mention potentially unconstitutional passes there will be any adoption of the measures that many of us are calling for, single payer or at the very least a robust public option that does not punish the people and gets everyone covered with insurance and yes some of those things do appear in other house bills but currently a plurality of our lawmakers seem dead set against them, so I ask what makes you so confident that they will get passed?

and if I were leading this effort I would have been out front unified in purpose for a single payer and called it what it currently is MEDICARE FOR ALL....

but like I said at the outset it would take courage to take an unpopular position and create the environment that proves to the American People that it is the answer.

[donheld]

73. These adresses need to be pinned on the top of GD

[nvme]

75. Baucus bill merger

The bankruptus bill will get pushed aside when it comes to the floor. Remember there are 4 or 5 different committees that have put forth their version of healthcare reform. The senate will take provisions from the various committees. The public option will be included in the final senate version, if not it will be included in the final reconciliation of the two houses' version. Ultimately, we will get the public option. I wish it was universal medicare. but that can be worked on later.

[FrenchieCat]

77. I agree....although I do feel that this bill has to come out of committee.....

period.

Otherwise, the media will have it's field day,
and by the time they are finished...so will we be.

[olegramps]

81. Thanks to all of you for your informed input.

This is the major reason that I continue to come here. As I understand the situation many are for a Single Payer system. This appears to be the utopia that would put the insurance companies out of the business of ripping off their customers to pay for huge compensation packages for their executives. They would be limited to providing supplemental insurance and Cadillac plans for a limited number of fortunate souls could be subject to taxation.

The reality of the situation seems to be that achieving this at this time against massive opposition is highly questionable since there isn't even unanimous support among Democratic legislators and absolutely no bipartisan support. This leaves us with either supporting a compromise plan in hopes of further improvements or killing any reform at this time. The first option is viewed by some who say this would be essentially caving in to the insurance lobbyists and that it is nothing more than assisting them in ripping us off. One aspect that seems to be counterproductive is forcing people to buy insurance. It would appear that this is only subsidizing an already intolerable situation.

At this time I would support a compromise bill since it provides for some necessary reforms, i.e., existing conditions, high deductibles, etc. This concept of forming cooperatives at the state level should be further explored with an opting in or out a choice of the citizen. Don't get me wrong for there is nothing more that I would like to see is the insurance companies being put out of business or their profits limited. I would like to see any form of insurance that is mandatory could only be offered by non-profit companies. This would include auto insurance and home mortgage insurance. If the option is to include a provision that everyone will be required to obtain health insurance then make this a provision of the bill. Wouldn't that frost the insurance companies ass?

[cornermouse]

82. The fact is that I don't mind paying my current insurance

premium, or even above my current insurance premium to the government if it would allow universal healthcare coverage. I don't think I'm alone about that position either nor do I think the opposition is as massive as much as it has been built up to appear by the pr firms. My take on this is that the people most in opposition to universal healthcare coverage are the politicians in mortal fear of losing insurance company money for their campaigns, the insurance companies, and a few knotheads and hardliner repubs and independents. What they appear to want to pass is going to come back and bite them in the butt.