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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 02:30 PM
Original message
Facts about the Patriot Act
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 02:32 PM by ProSense
Obama was a co-sponsor of an amendment to the bill in 2006:

A bill to amend the Patriot Act is introduced:

109th CONGRESS

2d Session

S . 2369
To require a more reasonable period for delayed-notice search warrants, to provide enhanced judicial review of FISA orders and national security letters, to require an enhanced factual basis for a FISA order, and to create national security letter sunset provisions.


IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

March 6, 2006
Mr. SPECTER (for himself, Mr. LEAHY, Ms. MURKOWSKI, Mr. SUNUNU, Mr. FEINGOLD, Mr. CRAIG, Mr. HAGEL, Mr. DURBIN, Mr. SALAZAR, Mrs. FEINSTEIN, Mr. OBAMA, and Mr. KERRY) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary


It was used to expose the Bush administration:

Statement of U.S. Senator Russ Feingold
On the Administration Secretly Seeking Information on 3501 Americans Last Year

April 29, 2006

"I am pleased that one 'sunshine' provision in the Patriot Act reauthorization has given the public a chance to see how often the administration has obtained the business records of Americans. It should not have taken an Act of Congress for this information to be made public. But it does demonstrate why Congress must make a few more critical changes to the Patriot Act, including a check on the government's power to obtain Americans' sensitive business records. Judiciary Committee Chairman Specter has introduced legislation containing those modifications, and I hope that we can pass that bill this year."



Kerry wrote the money laundering sections of the current bill:

In 2000, Kerry introduced legislation to provide the federal government with the authority to make the laundering of money more difficult for criminals and terrorists. That legislation became Section 311 of the USA PATRIOT Act, which provides the federal government with the authority to leverage the power of United States financial markets to move countries like Syria and Lebanon to reform and enforce their counter-money laundering and counter-terrorist financing laws.

The measured use of Section 311 authority against Syria and Lebanon provides the United States an opportunity to demonstrate leadership in the fight against international terrorism and money laundering.

The Secretary of State has designated Syria as a state whose government has repeatedly provided support for acts of international terrorism and has provided designated foreign terrorist organizations, such as Hamas and Hizballah, with sanctuary. The International Narcotics Control Strategy Report (INCSR), a group of federal agencies with anti-money laundering responsibilities, has classified Syria as a country to be monitored for potential money laundering. There have been a number of published reports stating that individuals from Saddam Husseins Iraqi regime have attempted to move to Syria and may be using the its financial system to divert funds which have been stolen from the Iraqi people.

The Financial Crime Enforcement Network (FinCEN) has conducted an analysis of the Suspicious Activity Reporting System (SAR) related to Lebanon for the period of January 2002 through October 2003. The FinCEN analysis has revealed 286 SARs that could be linked to transactions associated with suspicious or fraudulent wire transfer activities between Lebanon and other countries. Many of these transactions were structured in an attempt to avoid reporting requirements. Two of the SARs describe the reason for their filing as directly related to possible terrorist activities.


Statement of U.S. Senators Dick Durbin and Russ Feingold on the Administration's Willingness to Consider PATRIOT Act Reforms

The good parts of the bill work, the bad parts of the bill can be repealed and the weak parts strengthened.





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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think they should just rename the damn thing when they amend it, just to shut people up.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. What could we call it?
Patriot doesn't seem so Orwellian to me now.
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Its just the stigma the name carries, the words themselves are fine.
Just call it something boring like the National Security Act of 2009.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I know..I could get down with
the National Security Act of 2009.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. We have a couple of prime examples right
on this thread.
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Umbral Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. How about we reject Luntz and his ilk and call it what it is: The Un-American Act? nt
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yep. It's left a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. It will not matter. Look at how much effort went into distorting a public option. n/t
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Gee, facts underneath all the shouting..
Stupendous!
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Only an apologist like you would defend the PATRIOT Act
Have you no shame?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Don't be ignorant. Deal with facts instead of your bitterness. n/t
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Unlike you, I have opposed PATRIOT since it was first enacted
You are just another enabler for tyranny!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Unlike you, I can deal with reality without whining and
making all-or-nothing demands based on uninformed opinions. The world isn't about you, it's not your way or the highway. Deal with it.


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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Your frequent use of the 'whining' libel, which you have used against supporters of single payer
has gotten quite tiresome. The issue is our civil liberties, which apparently you are quite happy to flush down the toilet just like Cheney was.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Nonsense. There are plenty of single-payer supporters who aren't whining.
If the shoe fits...
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. The PATRIOT jackboot certainly fits you!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Your aversion to facts has long been noted.
Keep whining.



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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Your shrill authoritarianism is self-evident
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Are you four years old? n/t
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Are you projecting again?
Projection, according to Carl Jung, occurs when a person sees in another qualities they themselves possess.

Read more: http://psychology.suite101.com/article.cfm/what_is_proj...

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Here's a clue:
no matter how many times you respond, the facts in the OP don't change.

Look forward to your next irrelevant response.


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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. The only irrelevant thing here is your inflated sense of self-importance
which wouldn't be so bad if it weren't coupled with your vicious personal attacks on other posters as you have done on this thread and others.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. What, ran out of silly smilies? n/t
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. We got you for that!
More Kool-Aid?

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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. snoogens.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
57. very tiresome indeed.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
73. "I can deal with reality without whining"
Seems to me like you are whining about other posters' whining, which is kind of funny if you think about it. You know it is kind of funny. ;-)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. .
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #33
46. LOL
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #33
50. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. I would have laughed even it had been directed at me.
It was a pretty funny line.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. now i've seen it all.
i don't give a fuck if Ghandi wrote the damned thing.

it's fucking ludicrous to even remotely consider keeping this piece of shit legislation intact in any way shape or form.

if there's shit in it worth saving then pass those things into law on their own, individually.

fucking bizarre.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. You don't have to give a "fuck," facts are facts just because you want to continue
screaming in the face of them, go ahead.

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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. wow. interesting tactic.
i point out how bizarre it is to see anyone on a democratic message board trying to "clear up the facts" about the Patriotic Act (of all things).

basically like watching someone polish a turd.

then the polisher attempts to bully the person who was fucking confused in the first place to see such ridiculous shit being peddled here.

as i said before,

if there is anything worth a damn in there then it can stand on its own merits and be passed as individual bills. is that so unreasonable?

so, the Patriot Act is okay now because a (D) is in office?

FUCK. THAT.

the logic of this all is utterly staggering.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. "how bizarre it is to see anyone on a democratic message board trying to 'clear up the facts'"
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 03:39 PM by ProSense
Why, do you think being afraid of facts is or should become a Democratic trait?

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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. uh, you're defending the Patriot Act. i mean, does that need an explanation?
is this fucking bizarro world???

did i fall through a black hole and get dropped into FR?



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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. You have in front of you the facts from Democrats, facts which are based on reality.
If you consider that bizarre, that's your problem.

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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. oh yeah, and if you're going to quote me, use the whole quote:
i point out how bizarre it is to see anyone on a democratic message board trying to "clear up the facts" about the Patriotic Act (of all things).

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Do you think that makes a difference?
Feingold, Durbin, Kerry, Obama and others obviously are dealing with facts. You are simply insisting that these facts should be ignored.

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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. Feingold was the only one to oppose the bill
it is hardly surprising that he would try and clean it up.

What is surprising is that anyone would think actions taken to fix the damn thing justify extending any parts of it after it expires.





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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. "What is surprising is that anyone would think actions...to fix the damn thing justify extending"
Anyone as in Feingold?

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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. I don't see anything that says Feingold will support extending the act
if the reforms he wants aren't made.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
35. Discipleship noted.
.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. !!
:rofl:

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. .
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Great Piece. Thanks for continuing to spotlight it. for me.
Proud Leftwinger.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
40. There are no good parts to the bill. The whole thing should be swept into the dustbin.
Pointing out sections that added a few protections in the middle of an over-reaching, privacy-busting bill doesn't make them good. They're just not as bad as the whole act.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
45. normally i'm with ya but the patriot act is crap.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
48. I believe warrantless wiretapping is illegal
Before the Patriot Act, if a law enforcement agency asked the courts for a wiretap, they got it. They had to have reason, intent and some form of evidence. Illegal wiretapping can be abused. It can be abused by political opponents, it can be abused by those who wish to blackmail, it can be abused by those (like Hoover) going after certain innocent targets. However, following money, is an effective way to target those who are financing terrorist cells. Clinton attempted to pass a law to track money under a republican congress. They voted it down. Look at BCCI, and there are other banks that have closed their eyes on questionable banking transactions. If they really wanted to get rid of terrorism, target the funding. The corporations, literally, are making a killing off of war, the so-called "war on terrorism." Target the funding. And, these so-called war profiteering corporations better not be dealing with those who are deemed terrorists.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
51.  A 24 caret gold plated piece of shit
is still a piece of shit, and that is the patriot act.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. A "piece of shit" which
a couple of the most progrssive members of the Senate are trying to reform.

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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. It doesn't matter WHO is trying to reform it,
it is still a piece of shit. :shrug: That fact was true when Bush rammed it through and it doesn't stink any less now that it has been gold plated.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. It does matter.
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 06:52 PM by ProSense
A Republican would have a different idea of what constitues reform.

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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. No it really doesn't matter
who is trying to reform it to me. I will not accept that it is right, I wouldn't accept it with a republican and I won't accept it because of the Magic D. Not gonna happen.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. You don't have to accept anything.
You just have to face reality, or not.



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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. My reality is , the
patriot act fucking sucks, just because a few Democrats embrace it doesn't mean dick to me. That is MY reality , and I don't care what yours is, you accept it all you want. Thats a fact. There is always another election.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. "There is always another election."
And if Patriot Act supporting Hillary were in it, you would run excitedly to the polls to vote for her.

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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. LOL you are funny
and you just have an opinion, and opinions are like assholes, everybody has one or is one. My opinion is the patriot act is a piece of shit. You aren't going to convince me it's anything else , your facts are nothing but an opinion, yours or someone else's.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Not trying to convince you,
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 07:55 PM by ProSense
Would you vote against Hillary because she supports the Patriot Act?

Simply pointing out rank hypocrisy.

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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. No and I didn't vote against Obama,
I voted for him even though I didn't like his vote on FISA when he was a Senator. No rank hypocrisy here.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. "There is always another election."
Rank hypocrisy or idle implied threat.

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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Not hypocrisy or threat, if the Democrats are republican light
I will not support them in the next election. That has gotten us no where.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. Now you're talking
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. You are one to talk, such a phony
now I have things to do, you have fun pretzel twisting.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. You are the one who twisted yourself into a pretzel with faux outrage. n/t
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #69
70.  It isn't faux outrage , this last election has taught me
that if you have to hold your nose to vote for a Democrat, there is no reason to vote.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. You're still talking in circles:
Q: Would you vote against Hillary because she supports the Patriot Act?

You: No...
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. " Talking in circles" ? LOL
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 09:46 PM by Autumn
You assume I "would run excitedly to the polls to vote for her" and you ASSume that, just because I keep my Hillary avatar. :rofl:and personally I am not sure what Hillary has to do with it, I don't think she won the nomination. You need to get over that.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
52. Lipstick on a piece of shit.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
74. I love politics more and more. This is awesome! nt
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