Kucinich has a diary up at Daily Kos predicting doom for the public option

[ProSense]

here

It's attracting all the naysayers, but pissing off a lot of people in the process (four people troll-rated it): some calling him depressing, others calling it a hit-and-run diary (one of the Daily Kos editors included) and some asking why he isn't trying to change the outcome.

[ShortnFiery]

1. As much as I respect Kucinich speaking truth to power, I hope he's wrong and will help

make the outcome (contact my reps) a positive bill that will contain a Public Option.

As "Big Ed" is promoting on radio and MSNBC, we have to FIGHT for it ... make the democratic representatives reflect the will of the Average American.

[SIMPLYB1980]

2. Fuck DK! He is a unhelpful, bitter, fool.

And as irrelevant as the republicans.

[Cleita]

5. The Republicans aren't irrevelant. They are systematically ruining this

country. The bill coming out of the Finance Committee today that doesn't have a public option is an example. If it weren't for law makers like Dennis Kucinich attempting to keep them honest, we will be goose stepping to the march of "GE Brings Good Things to Life" and all the corporate commercials, which would become patriotic songs and taught in school to your children to indoctrinate them.

[ProSense]

8. You think Republicans are relevant?

They lost!

[Cleita]

11. What did they lose?

Nothing as far as I can see. They seem to have gotten their health care plan as it was written by the lobbyists who fill their pockets with your health care money.

[ProSense]

"They seem to have gotten their health care plan" Really? Baucus' plan passed?

The Republicans lost, get used to it.

[Cleita]

15. They seem to think it will pass or they wouldn't have blatantly offered it up

even though all the Republicans in the Gang of Six said they wouldn't vote for it. There have been back room deals made because they are blatantly ignoring all the activism that has happened in regard to this bill just like the Bush administration ignored all the American people, a majority, who didn't want to go to war with Iraq. If this is the bill or something similar that gifts the insurance industry with taxpayer money that passes, I will be screaming all over DU, "I told you so!" As a matter-of-fact I think I will anyway.

Get used to it.

[ProSense]

20. They are delusional. It's

dead in the water

Still, you go on having faith in them.

[Cleita]

29. We shall see, who is delusional and who is playing us for fools when the

final outcome is signed into law.

[Cha]

52. Don't be another dennis..another fail pusher.

We Can Do This.

[Cleita]

91. I would love to be another Dennis and fail pusher are harsh words for some

one who has the guts to stand for what he believes in in spite of the name calling he must endure. This country would be great now if there had been more Dennises in Congress in the past twenty years. Oh, I forgot, there were and most of them got killed either politically or for real.

[Cha]

98. That's right..I forgot..you're stuck in

that fail mode.

[Cleita]

109. Project much?

I still have hopes that we will pull out of this corporate nightmare. You have given into it because you don't think it can ever get better.

[tekisui]

174. You are confusing conservatives with repubbies.

Repukes have nothing. Conservadems are being pandered to.

[dionysus]

10. don't worry, max's peice of shit bill is going nowhere.

[Cleita]

13. I will remember that if it does go somewhere and I will know whom to

blame, who didn't support Dennis Kucinich's bill HR 676, which would have given us a public option as a compromise. I really don't think there is a Democrat in Congress who ever had to buy a used car or they wouldn't have let this happen.

[dflprincess]

58. HR676 would give us single payer

and that's the bill that should have been pushed so just maybe a decent compromise would have been hammered out.

HR3200 is the compromise that would sort of give us a public option - except that it wouldn't be an option for most us and is also designed to protect the private insurers.

[Cleita]

93. Conyers was offering HR 676 as a public option, but we know that isn't what

the insurance companies want so it will be put back in mothballs. All the public option cheerleaders shot themselves in the foot by not demanding single payer from the get go, then we might have gotten it as a public option.

[IndianaGreen]

119. Who put single payer off the table?

Medicare for all is the only real universal health care we all voted for. We didn't vote for insurance reform, and we sure as hell didn't vote for imposing a tax on the working poor and lower middle class for being unable to afford health insurance.

[DutchLiberal]

132. You're helping the right-wing.

[Forkboy]

136. At yet still more relevant than you or I, no?

[comtec]

173. Um... WHO is bitter?

DK has been right on nearly everything he's made a public statement on.

I really hope he wrong but you are just a joke.

What is he supposedly bitter over?

He's really one of the only voices of reason and reality in the congress.

[bluestateguy]

3. He's a professional doom and gloomer

Just like McGovern, Carter, Mondale, and Dukakis. All losers.

[Algorem]

30. none of them have been in office for decades

where'd all this doom and gloom come from?republicans like clinton.

[harkadog]

103. I know it's trendy to slam Carter

But last time I looked he was President from 1977 - 1981. Maybe you forgot about those years.

[DutchLiberal]

133. You forgot the sarcasm-tag, right?

I'm no fan of it either, but if you're no good at sarcasm, you really should add it.

[Forkboy]

137. And this is why we've only agreed on one thing.

Statements like that about good men are so shallow and insipid that's it's amazing any Democrat or Liberal could utter them with a straight face.

[Go2Peace]

164. Carter a "Doom and Gloomer"? That says more about your knowledge than him, you live in a fairy tale

Carter may have sounded "doom and gloom" but the man has been right on most every issue. If we had listened to him and re-elected him in the 80s, and reagan had left his fuel standards and energy policies in place the US would be quite a different place now.

Carter is a genius. How old are you?

[Oregone]

4. And now strap in for your two minutes of hate against those left of center

We've always been at war with Kucinich

[SIMPLYB1980]

23. When he gives it it's OK but when he has to take it it's not.

Quite a double standard.

[DevonRex]

26. Funny how that works, eh? Especially since he voted FOR all those

bills his followers complain about. And wanted Ron Paul as his running mate.

[Hutzpa]

55. You don't say

wanted Ron Paul for his running mate, one crackpot for another...

[Cha]

I've been seeing that of late that dennis wanted ron paul

for his running mate! I missed that during the campaign..I was too busy supporting someone who made sense to me.

There was a ron paul supporter in our co-op who was talking shit about the Hypocrcicy of Michelle having a White House Garden and she sounded delusional.

Not too impressed with dennis lately.

[DevonRex]

69. Neither am I. And he voted for TARP and all that other stuff. So why is he

being held up as the perfect liberal by liberals who hated all those economic bills? I'm seeing some twisted logic with them.

[Oregone]

31. No double standard here

Im simply pointing out how the centrist love to take their time to trash anyone who threaten their centrist (non) ideology. Whether is wrong, right, or somewhere in between, they fuckn love it.

[SIMPLYB1980]

41. As the far left loves to call the centrists or anyone just to

the left of center corporatist and such. You get what you give. Karma for all the bitching and moaning and whining done to the DLC and moderates over the last few years by the far left.

[Oregone]

43. Karma for bitching and moaning at the DLC moderates?!?

Hurray! You have a reason to trash him and even the score! Yes, score one for your side!


What fucking planet do these people live on?

[SIMPLYB1980]

47. DK and his Ilk are all about score keeping.

I plan on running up the score while I can. It's obvious to me that he is setting the stage to try and run against Obama in 2012. The man is a grandstander who gets nothing accomplished.

[Oregone]

50. Buy a clue

Its not a game. Douchebaggery isn't needed.

[SIMPLYB1980]

54. You by a clue.

If it isn't a game then why is DK playing it like one.

[John Q. Citizen]

92. Baucus is a scumbag corporate whore, like the rest of the DLCers. How's that working?

[SIMPLYB1980]

108. Oh Noes!!11

Another member of the Fail brigade. However will I survive your disapproval?

[John Q. Citizen]

115. You already have health care and money, so you will be fine. It's all about you, after all.

[SIMPLYB1980]

120. I work for my money, and I pay to much for BCB$.

Would love to get in the public option, but if I can't I don't mind my taxes going up so the pore and lower middle class people can have it or afford it. It's really not about me at all, but if that makes you fell better I can take it.

[paulk]

113. planet obama

right/center/left - all that stuff is irrelevant

like the Republicans!

oh, wait...

[DutchLiberal]

134. Over the last 30 years, Democrats have moved to the right & the right has moved in a mental hospital

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPDhQAeMYmI

The Democrats used to be on the left! What you call the "center" is not really the center, but the right.

[ShortnFiery]

158. Far Left?!? The far left is termed *Communist.* We are LIBERALS, left of center.

Communists DECLARE themselves and have valid parties over in European countries.

We are LIBERAL Democrats.

This country has morphed into a right wing duopoly where anything to the left of Clinton is FAR LEFT.

[Go2Peace]

172. Your use of that pic says a lot about you and your idea of what is good taste

in the context of the poster that is a nasty pic. Your seem a little confused about what you believe in. That is the kind of pictorial commentary that goes better in freeperville than in a progressive forum in MHO.

[jgraz]

53. Next two minutes of hate scheduled for two minutes from now.

The public option has been dead for months. None of these bills will give anyone with health coverage the ability to choose a government-run plan.

[SIMPLYB1980]

107. delete wrong place.

[QC]

87. Two minutes? It's 24/7 hate now, here at Democratic (Leadership Council) Underground. n/t

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

142. You speak as if there aren't those that hate the DLC with every bit of their soul around here.

Kosher to bash the DLC, but not to bash DK, right?

[DevonRex]

6. He's worse than useless. Now he's a liability. nt

[Cleita]

7. He's doing the job the rest of the so-called Democrats in the Senate should

be doing as a coalition. Praise Dennis Kucinich and Bernie Sanders, the only two Senators who speak for the people in the Senate.

[bluestateguy]

12. Bernie Sanders at least lives in the real world

Kucinich lives in this make believe pretend fantasy land where everybody is to he Left of Hugo Chavez.

[Cleita]

22. Actually, that's the world I used to live in during the fifties and sixties and

part of it was under a Republican President, Eisenhower. This was once America, like Dennis speaks of, and we were moving towards an even better one until Nixon and Reagan and this whole fascist right wing religio-political capitalistic system took over. We knew what the Great Depression was like and were moving away from it, recovering our prosperity believing that it would never happen again. Well, I guess it's going to take another Great Depression to make people realize Dennis is right. Killing his voice with scorn is as bad as killing Paul Wellstone for real another voice for the people and America as it should be.

[Go2Peace]

166. I am guessing BlueStateGuy is too young to understand that

[Ikonoklast]

84. Kucinich isn't a Senator.

He was lucky to retain his house seat in the last election; it was why he dropped out of the presidantial race because he was badly behind and pulled a win out at the last minute.

[Cleita]

94. I did say Senate but I meant Congress.

Yes, I know he's a Congressman. I have met him and worked for him in the last Presidential race.

[harkadog]

102. Bullshit

Dennis won the race with 57% of the vote. His opponent got 39%. Dennis won by 18%.

[Ikonoklast]

125. See the race a month before he pulled out of the presidential race,

He was almost out of money, and losing by double-digits in the polls.

If it wasn't for all the money he raised OUTSIDE his district at the last minute, he would have lost his seat.

Not bullshit. I said he pulled it out at the last minute.

[harkadog]

127. It is a safe Democratic district.

He was never in a real difficulty. I don't care what selective "polls" may have said.

[dionysus]

9. who cares. all 15 of his supporters will read it, then come here and complain about it.

[tridim]

14. DK is dead to me now.. Which sucks because I used to love the guy.

He should probably just call it quits because he's not going to win another election talking this kind of smack.

[Cleita]

16. Oh, c'mon, he's still the same Dennis and I don't think

you ever loved him or you wouldn't say this.

[tridim]

17. Do a search if you don't believe me.

It should be easy because I always refer to him as DK. I loved him as recently as last year.

He has changed, it's bloody obvious.

[Cleita]

25. If this is true, then you have changed and drank the Kool-Aid which is

running pretty rampant here at DU as well. Dennis has not changed nor have I. I also have identified what I believe are paid insurance company trolls operating here on DU and they are convincing people that the insurance company way is the way to do it with a public option, which has changed into some idiot cooperative deal that they can control. Since they are slicker and more literate than the freepers they seem more credible.

[SIMPLYB1980]

44. Kool-Aid?

Man I miss the primaries those were the days.

[dionysus]

86. please point out one post pimping the insurance companies. if you think

insurance companies are paying ppl to post on DU you're frankly paranoid.

[BlooInBloo]

18. "why he isn't trying to change the outcome" - That part is easy...

He's the king of preferring nothing over something.

[SpartanDem]

19. So what's he doing about it?

Writing a melodramtic doom and gloom screed isn't exactly helpful.

[slipslidingaway]

21. Tip Jar (396+ / 5-) What does that mean? n/t

[Hutzpa]

27. means

there are 5 people who disagree with his premise, basically, they are not buying
what he is selling.

[slipslidingaway]

33. So the OP left out the almost 400 people who agreed and focused on 4 people

Wow!

[ProSense]

35. No, I didn't. I said it's attracting all the naysayers, and emphasized the unusual.

Big difference.

[slipslidingaway]

38. You included the negative ratings, conveniently excluded the positive ratings. n/t

[ProSense]

46. Do you think people were going to miss the number of positive ratings when the clicked on the link?

Support was implied by the statement: It's attracting all the naysayers.

You simply want to divert attention from the points in the OP.

[inna]

157. typical of the OP. nt

[Oregone]

28. I assume that means he didn't get that troll rating overall

And the amount of people he is pissing of is a bit overstated

[slipslidingaway]

34. That is what it looks like to me - talk about focusing on the negative! n/t

[ProSense]

37. Of all the diaries I have seen, no one has ever troll rated a member of Congress.

That is a sign of the disgust some people must be feeling, and the comments confirm this.

[slipslidingaway]

42. I have no idea if that is true or not. n/t

[Oregone]

45. Does Baucus have a diary? I know just a few guys that would troll rate the fuck outta it

[ProSense]

48. You're comparing Kucinich to Baucus? n/t

[Oregone]

49. In terms of Democrats hated by other Democrats, I think they seem to fit in that category

Although, its the centrists who trash on Kucinich, while every sane Democrat trashes on Baucus.

[ProSense]

32. It means five people troll rated his diary. Despite the recs, that's

a lot of troll ratings for a member of Congress. Highly unusual.

[slipslidingaway]

36. It means that your OP focused on a few people who did not like

his position and conveniently overlooked the hundreds who agreed with him.

Must paint DK in a negative light, his is not going along with the giveaway to the corporations!

[ProSense]

40. Nonsense, people disagree with the contents of diaries by members of Congress all the time.

Troll rating one is a different story.

[Oregone]

73. That pretty much sums it up spot on

Does this poster think people are that stupid?

[Hutzpa]

24. I saw that and did not rec his

hit and run dairy, DK is quickly turning into a lefty crackpot just like La Rouche,
they want nothing better but doom and gloom every time.

After voting nay yesterday, the man left a bitter taste in my mouth.

[jefferson_dem]

39. Actually, I can see it happening as Kooch describes...

Caveats:

1. Setting aside the loaded way in which he frames the discussion, this legislative outcome could still be considered a step in the right direction - significant and "progressive" health care reform.

2. Kooch is still...a crackpot.

[Cha]

51. I seem to remember dennis predicting

this a month or two ago? What's his problem..is he thinking he wants to be right?..the first to say "I told you so"? The leader of the Fail PUSHERS? The Head of the Piss and Whine Brigade?

[SIMPLYB1980]

57. It's the same thinking that the republicans have when it

comes to torture. They want to be able to say look I told you so. It's all about scoring political points with them. No compromise, no surrender!

[Cha]

75. It would seem

so..I really don't like the concept of fail pushing or the fail pushers.

[mikelgb]

56. fuck all DK haters

Dennis co-sponsored HR676 with Conyers.

He has not changed.

[jgraz]

59. +1

[ProSense]

61. Fuck all the grandstanding. HR676 is Conyers bill, and he's fighting to preserve a public option. nt

[Cleita]

65. There won't be a public option. Anyway we really don't need health care

reform like Baucus's bill because it's worse than what we have. You'd better start writing letters against the mandates or you and yours are going to find themselves in a condition known as between a rock and a hard place.

[Hutzpa]

66. +10

[Cha]

67. Fuck all those who say "Fuck all DK haters"...Fucking dennis

is not perfect. I don't hate his little guts..I just think he's a negative component to the PO.

[DevonRex]

71. What ^^^^ said. :) nt

[ShortnFiery]

154. Yes!

[jgraz]

60. Bookmarking for when Kucinich turns out to be 100% right.

Looks like hateful reactions to the truth aren't the sole province of the right-wing nutbags.

[Cleita]

62. Yes, as he always is. n/t

[ProSense]

77. He'll vote for health reform, quietly, just like he did for SCHIP after grandstanding for months. nt

[slipslidingaway]

81. For the THIRD time, he was trying to include hundreds of thousands of children...

who had been dropped in the late 90's and explained his vote each time.

I've posted this to you twice before, but you never replied and again try and bash him for his votes. Those who had been denied for 13 years are finally covered.


Links here...
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/slipslidingaw...

"...The Democratic leadership now asks us to support the compromise bill while acknowledging the injustice of failing, once again, to cover immigrant children and pregnant women - immigrants from working families who pay taxes and "play by the rules." They promise to address immigrant children's health in some unspecified, future legislation rather than in the modest children's health bill now before them. This is an audacious request given that the promise echoes several made before and not kept. It is not the first time that ICHIA has been stripped out of legislation behind closed doors after winning heated committee and floor debates.<3>


...<3> Most recently, immigrants were told to wait until the 2007 SCHIP reauthorization for the passage of ICHIA after it was stripped from the Medicare Modernization Act of 2003 during the last hours of conference negotiations. Prior to that, despite winning heated committee and floor debates, ICHIA was cut from a 2000 Medicare provider bill as well as a 2002 Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF) reauthorization bill. In fact, Democratic leadership has long vowed to redress the damage to which they contributed in 1996 by placing the arbitrary restrictions on legal immigrants."


....01/13/09

"...Congressional action on the popular SCHIP measure, which passed Congress with bipartisan votes twice in 2007 but died under President Bush’s veto pen, would give the incoming Obama administration a quick victory on healthcare, one of its major priorities.

...As in the 2007 measures, the increased spending on SCHIP would be fully offset by a 61-cent increase in the federal tax on cigarettes along with tax increases on other tobacco products.

By emphasizing the similarities between his new bill and the legislation that passed two years ago, Baucus seeks to set the stage for a noncontroversial, bipartisan process.

In his statement, though, Baucus implicitly acknowledged one contentious issue he did not include in his draft bill: benefits for legal immigrants..."


The bill then passes and included those who had been excluded since 1996.

[DRoseDARs]

106. Gobsmacking, isn't it? Dudette's username is terribly ironic. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

112. Agreed, terribly ironic :) ...and once again, crickets. n/t

[Forkboy]

129. You'd think ProSense, who is always so into facts, would have the guts to reply.

But alas, he's too busy defending the Patriot Act.

[slipslidingaway]

131. Either a reply or stop misrepresenting the circumstances...

there is always something to defend.

[Cleita]

90. Of course he's going to vote with his caucus. That's what lawmakers do.

Speaking truth to corporate power is hardly grandstanding. He needs to get his message out, which is actually our message, from those of us who agree with him.

[dionysus]

95. you know a lot of people complain about people supposedly "idolizing" barack. yet those same

people put dennis on a pedastal like he's some kind of saint. funny that eh?

has he ever put through a single significant piece of legislation in his entire career? he's a career backbencher...

[DevonRex]

63. Was he right when he said Ron Paul would be a good running mate for him?

[jgraz]

68. No, he's right on healthcare. Please try to stay focused.

[DevonRex]

70. I am focused on why DK is always held up to be the model of liberalism

when he is clearly not.

[jgraz]

74. Yeah, we're having a different discussion over here

But please, feel free to continue voicing your off-topic hatred for anyone you disagree with. It'll give the adults a chance to talk amongst ourselves.

[Forkboy]

138. He's a damn sight closer than most.

[avaistheone1]

145. ^5 more than a damn sight.

[jonnyblitz]

64. you know he will be right. i am bookmarking this as well...

[Cha]

78. Yes, you and all the fail pushers do just

that.

[jgraz]

97. What's your plan to keep a public option in the bill?

Nothing? I thought so.

Cuz that's been working so well up to now.

[polichick]

130. Yeah, inconvenient truths are shunned here. I hope DK is wrong but...

...wouldn't be surprised if it turns out pretty much how he described it.

[freddie mertz]

72. Another for the "heretic" list?

Frank Rich and countless others, now DK.

Boy oh boy.

[Jennicut]

76. Oh, everyone is in a tizzy. Dennis is not my favorite rep but I don't hate him either

He is a gloomy liberal. Like Rachel Maddow. They prepare for worst case scenarios. Sometimes they are correct and other times they are completely off the mark. There is not way to tell what will happen. We may not have the votes in the Senate. We have to take what we can from the Senate and then it really will come down to the conference committee. A big mistake would be to mandate insurance then have no public option. Lets hope it does not happen and keep up the support for the p.o.

[ProSense]

79. Calling Kucinich out is not hate. Maddow can afford to prepare for worse case scenarios

It would be one thing if Kucinich was fighting to preserve a public option, but all he's doing is predicting doom. At the very least, he could stick to supporting single-payer instead of pushing the doom meme in his fundraising appeals.

[Jennicut]

80. True, the gloom and doom does seem counterproductive.

[mikelgb]

83. Join Dennis in his fight for Single Payer: Sign his petition

From OPs link:

It will take four years for the new legislation to go into effect. During that time, we are going to build a constituency of millions in support of real health care, a constituency which will be recognized and a cause which is right and just: Health Care as a Civil Right.

Join our efforts. Sign the petition. Contribute. Insure a democratic future.

http://healthcare.kucinich.us/petition /


doom and gloom = realistic scenario of the health insurance reform passage?

and how does one kos diary = Kucinich's ONLY message on healthcare?

[Jennicut]

85. An new constituency? For when? Health care won't be addressed again for a long, long time.

Not many Presidents have the guts to even try and do something to reform it and we can see why.

[ProSense]

89. You think because I support single payer changes the point in the OP?

Kucinich needs to shit or get off the pot. He knows that single-payer isn't going to pass this year. His grandstanding (which is not his support for single payer, but his inaction to get a public option passed while doing nothing but predicting gloom) serves no friggin purpose.

[slipslidingaway]

82. If we wind up with a weak public option that does not compete...

with the for profit companies and does not control costs, but leaves a mandate to buy insurance, we all lose.

[skipos]

88. At least this is better than his idea of having Ron Paul as VP.

I am neither here nor there on DK. He has some good votes and some bad ones, but he isn't much of a consensus builder.

[TheKentuckian]

96. I wish people would at least grasp that DK does not and probably cannot run for statewide office

He can get away with stances and rhetoric that don't generally fly. If people are going to listen to someone for the scoop on what can and can't be done then listen to a Senator or a Governor. When you allow Dennis to define reality you quickly will find yourself bitter and frustrated. People like Sanders, Feingold, and Kerry aren't full of shit and allow a much more sober view of where to devote your efforts so they aren't wasted.

Kucinich is setting up for another showpiece run to influence the platform. I'm not a basher but the refusal to put DK in perspective is dangerous and unwise to your ability to hang in and contribute to the long term advancement of liberal ideals. He'll rouse you, he'll engage you, he'll speak out defiantly to power with will fill you with righteous anger, but then you will become frustrated with the lack of progress, and then you will splinter off or stay home.

I think he adds perspective but it is foolish to take him too seriously or to make him the template that you expect all politicians to be like because he's not the politician he'd be like if he was serious about any higher office.

[DevonRex]

101. Perfect analysis. Except for that Ron Paul thing. I can't find any way to

rationalize DK wanting to put a racist libertarian on his ticket. The last time I looked at Ron Paul's site it had an article encouraging secession, right at the top.

[grantcart]

99. What is so strange about DK's prophecy is that he is calling the Progressive Caucus

wimps. His scenario only works if they fold.

[Hippo_Tron]

171. Exactly right

When the Republicans officially left the table and decided that defeating the President was more important than health care that drastically increased the power of the Progressive Caucus. They have just as much power to kill the bill as the conservadems in the Senate do.

And IMO the Progressive Caucus has even more leverage because unlike the conservadems they mostly come from safe liberal districts and will be re-elected no matter what. If health care fails and Obama fails by extension people like Blanche Lincoln are going to be some of the first casualties.

[tekisui]

100. I wish we had a troll-rating.

Not for you Pro-Sense. I never go to Kos, and didn't know a troll-rating existed.

[thelordofhell]

104. Dennis, you should know better

Now put stuff in your diary that people want to see, like naked pictures of your hot wife.

[Baltoman991]

105. And I

predict Dennis will get as much support for this feeling of his as he did for his Presidential run.

As what stated many times, he's known for grandstanding and this time is no different.

[DCBob]

110. I agree with Dennis' assessment..

It is reality... like or not.

[Umbral]

111. Is Kucinich under the bus now? Shit, this place ain't what it used to be. nt

[David Zephyr]

118. Yep. Kucinich, too.

The disciples don't like Kucinich either.

[earth mom]

123. DU is looking more like freeperville every day. The sheep are drinking Kool Aid by the barrel. nt

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

143. You mean way back in March 2009 when you joined? (nt)

[Umbral]

144. Nope, since way back when that prick Jacinto drove me away. nt

[Thrill]

114. He's an attention whore

[Feron]

116. So instead of fighting, let's just give up.

Sounds like a great plan for victory. How can it possibly fail.

While it's going to be a fight, it's not an unwinnable battle.

Personally I think that petitions are worthless. One hundred letters makes more of an impression than one sheet of paper with one hundred names on it. Call, write, or fax your Representative and Senators. Make noise.

[Milk]

117. I love all of the DK hate

It's completely rational and in step with progressive politics. Go on with your bad selves.

[Barack_America]

121. Wow. Did DK kill a puppy or something?

DU has turned on him right quick.

Or is this more of a GD-P thing? GD still seems to be sweet on him.

[earth mom]

122. As Kucinich said "Who are these people?!" Well there's a shitload of em on this thread.

Wake up and smell the corruption GD-P.

Obama is NOT gonna deliver Health Care to the masses.

[Baltoman991]

126. So yours

is the only OPINION we should listen too?

See, I can say "wake up haters, Obama will deliver health care for all" and you can tell me I don't know what the hell I'm talking about because nothing has happened yet.

So I can tell you, you don't know what the hell you're talking about because, unless I missed it, no bill has been sent to his desk for him to sign.

[Vidar]

124. I hope Dennis is wrong, but I'm not going to diss him for telling what probably is the truth.

[Phx_Dem]

128. BITE ME DENNIS. I sick of you fucking naysayers.

If you don't think it will pass, get off your fucking ass and do something about it instead of posting whiny bullshit on DK.

[Peacetrain]

135. What he says... times 2

[Umbral]

140. I do what I can, but since I'm not a billion dollar corporation politicians don't pay any attention.

Go figure.

[Forkboy]

139. Lot of people in this thread who often complain about shallow attacks on Obama...

...don't seem to mind making shallow attacks on someone else.

[DireStrike]

141. Insure/Ensure

"Insure a democratic future."

Haha.

[Life Long Dem]

146. Outcome with this attitude is that nobody wins.

But big business once again.

[ShortnFiery]

153. Attitude? We The People were NEVER in the game - no negotiations for *single payer*

We had nothing to barter with ... we're suckers.

[LWolf]

147. He's right.

Truth pisses people off.

[LWolf]

148. edit: dupe.

Not that it doesn't bear repeating.

[Name removed]

149. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[inna]

why do you spam and kick all these old threads?

this is probably the fifth thread that you kicked, all with the same post - "shoulda voted for hillary". what gives?...

[4lbs]

150. Since it's the ConservaDems in the Senate holding this up, and Kucinich is a staunch Progressive why

doesn't he run for the soon-to-be open Ohio Senate seat being vacated by Voinovich?

Ohio will elect Progressives to the Senate, as evidenced by Sherrod Brown.

Right now, Kucinich is mostly bark, little bite, in the House. All the Kucinich supporters should plead with him to run for Senate, where he'd be able to really influence things.

[Ikonoklast]

151. He'd get mugged in a state-wide run, like he did before.

In this state, Kucinich has very little support outside of his district.


Dennis, even with a longer track record in Congress than Brown has in the Senate, has a very thin legislative record to stand on. What makes you think he'd suddenly do any better as a senator?

He uses his congresssional seat as a soapbox to make runs for the presidency, but little else.

[4lbs]

155. That's unfortunate. As great as he and Barney Frank are in the House, think of the good they could

do taking it to the Repukes in the Senate.

[saltpoint]

163. Kucinich would draw progressive votes across Ohio. The question is whether

there would be enough of them to propel him to victory on a statewide ballot.

I don't think there would be.

Southern / Southwestern Ohio sends people like Mean Jean Schmidt and John Boehner to Washington in reliable cycles. I'm not seeing those large districts turning out in meaningful numbers for Dennis Kucinich.

I'd like a lot more progressive votes in both chambers. But I'm yet to see any plan, from DK or anyone else, on how we get to that place in the road.

[Hippo_Tron]

169. Frank has too much seniority in the House to start over in the Senate

He's a major player on any banking legislation as Chairman of the Financial Services Committee and on non-banking issues he plays a role because of his seniority within the caucus.

He could be even more powerful if he had that kind of seniority in the Senate but at his age that's not a possibility.

[4lbs]

178. I would love to switch out Max "Buy My Campaign" Baucus and Barney Frank in the Senate Finance

Committee.

[ShortnFiery]

152. I think he speaks the truth. We probably will be MANDATED to pay and give

one big wet kiss to the Insurance Industry. The Public Option has been pissed away from the onset. If they were serious about ending up with a robust public option, we would have started negotiations with *single payer.*

[inna]

156. HOLY SHIT. i CANNOT believe DU is trashing Kucinich in this thread.

wow, just wow.

[Go2Peace]

170. Between the heavy authoritarians and the "blue-dog" sounding "liberals" here

sometimes I have to wonder just how much "change" is possible in America. This supposedly is one of the more "progressive" sites?

[harun]

176. I certainly am not, DK is the man!

[saltpoint]

159. Love Dennis but would much prefer that he work to build coalitions to

pass things like the public option.

Ted Kennedy was also a liberal Democrat but unlike Kucinich, he was also a master at coalition politics.

It gets things done in an environment where that is how what needs getting done gets done.

[inna]

160. excellent diary btw. thanks for posting it.

Tip Jar (444+ / 5-). Tried to give it another rec but unfortunately "The period of time to recommend this diary has expired."

[inna]

161. Tip Jar (444+ / 5-) speaks for itself. It has finally dawned on me how much more progressive DK is.

here, this diary would've been "unrecommended", without a doubt.


it's a shame.

[inna]

183. DK as in Daily Kos, not Dennis Kucinich, in this context.

i meant to say in my previous post (too late to edit now) - It has finally dawned on me how much more progressive Daily Kos (compared to DU) is.

[BlooInBloo]

162. People wrapped up in all-or-nothing are serious. Dead serious...

Perhaps some understand better now why he should never, ever be President.

[saltpoint]

165. Dennis Kucinich isn't the problem. The problem with Kucinich is that he

is also not the solution.

Being correct on issues just doesn't meet threshold. You have to be effective. You have to get something done.

He's run twice for president and has influenced the debate to one degree or another. He has great supporters. I like the fighter in him a lot.

But he is not effective. He does not work to build coalitions of the sort that pass effective legislation.

I honor Kucinich and the fighting tradition he represents but I also realize that he is not going to be the voice who advances that tradition very far.

I wish he were.

[AuntPatsy]

167. I could not agree more...and regardless of what some used to say...it has nothing to do with his

looks but everything to do with his actions to date..he is great where he is...

[BlooInBloo]

175. "Dennis Kucinich isn't the problem. The problem with Kucinich..." - (snarfle)

Cocaine is a helluva drug?

[saltpoint]

179. When the finger points to the stars, the fool looks at the finger, as the

saying goes.

Dennis has the vision to see the heavens but his finger isn't the point.

[BlooInBloo]

180. Heh. Wittgenstein would have objected to that characterization of pointing, of courrse...

but I get your point.

[saltpoint]

181. - - -

[BlooInBloo]

182. Did you get it? Did you get it??? "point"???

It was funny! Laugh damn you! LAUGH!

[Hippo_Tron]

168. If the Progressive Caucus holds firm on their pledge, this won't happen

The Progressive Caucus consists mostly of members from liberal districts who will be re-elected whether or not a health care bill passes. They can politically afford to vote nay if there is no public option in the bill.

The centrists, on the other hand, mostly come from conservative districts and they will be the first casualties if health care fails and the President and the party fail because of it. While they would prefer no public option they need some bill to pass and if the Progressives hold firm, the centrists will break ranks IMO.

[Mr. Sparkle]

177. momentum will help get us the best possible bill. Im extremely positive after the last week.

Dennis, as much as I like him, has only slowed down the momentum when he should be calling out those congressmen on the floor who are taking money health insurance companies and voting against the wishes of the American people.

Some political theater against the bad guys would be more helpful rather than an doom and gloomy and hopefully, an unlikely outcome. So, i can understand why he was getting flamed.