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Rockefeller worried about subsidy levels--which will evidently be provided in form of tax credits.

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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:10 AM
Original message
Rockefeller worried about subsidy levels--which will evidently be provided in form of tax credits.
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 09:22 AM by flpoljunkie
Perhaps I am missing something here, but if you cannot afford to by health insurance, how is having a tax credit--which is subtracted from the final amount of income tax you owe--going to help you pay for insurance in the current tax year?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203917304...

Our plan would promote healthy competition and put real choices back in the hands of consumers. Small businesses with tight financial constraints would finally be able to offer health benefits through affordable tax credits.

Our plan would take the guess work out of buying insurance so consumers could make informed decisions about the insurance policies they buy. Through state-based "insurance exchanges," individuals and small businesses could shop for plans offered within their zip codes and determine their eligibility for tax credits to buy insurance.



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Love Bug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. Very good question!
How are people going to be able to front the money for premiums and wait for that refund next year? Besides -- a tax credit just lowers your taxible income. It's not a reimbursement by any means.

This is my biggest concern about the current HC bills. I'm against forcing people to buy coverage.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Those families above 300% FPL will face $3,800 penalty if they fail to purchase insurance.
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 10:55 AM by flpoljunkie
And, they will be required to pay 13% of their income for insurance. That's $11,466 for someone making 400% of the FPL--$88,200.

Another number to watch: 13 percent. Thats the share of family income that the Baucus plan envisions middle-class American families having to pay in health insurance premiums before co-payments, deductibles and other cost-sharing.

http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/baucu...

The Kaiser Foundation estimates that 5% of those making 400% of the Federal Poverty Level lack insurance.



Uninsurance in the 300-400 Percent of Federal Poverty Line Bracket

The crude and simple way to make health reform cheaper is to just make it less generousfewer subsidies, for example. Congressional liberals are looking at subsidies for families of up to 400 percent of the federal poverty line. But how much would it undermine the project to be someone less ambitious. According to the Kaiser Family Foundation relatively few people in the 300-400 percent of FPL bracket currently lack insurance:

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/07/unin...

Link to 2009 Federal Poverty Levels: http://ccf.georgetown.edu/index/cms-filesystem-action?f...

For a family of four the 300% FPL is $66,150 and the 400% level for a family of four is $8,200. Baucus will be using the AGI to figure eligibility for subsidies which will include any money earned by dependents.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. Not having a chunch of money to help buy into an insurance
plan is going to hamper/prevent a lot from signing up. They want to keep the costs down. This is a good way to do it. very sad indeed.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. How the tax subsidies (up to only 300% of the poverty level) would work.
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 10:06 AM by flpoljunkie
Page 22 of 223 page Baucus plan:

The individual sends his or her portion of the the premium to the Treasury and the Treasury pays the full premium or the individual could pay the full premium and claim a tax credit when they file their income tax.

http://finance.senate.gov/sitepages/leg/LEG%202009/0916...
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Thank you for finding this - it does show that I understand the problem with fronting the entire
payment.
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. If you do not have a job therefore do not pay taxes, how does
Tax Credit work.

At least you cannot mandate when millions are unemployed???
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Perhaps you would be eligible for Medicaid coverage.
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 10:46 AM by flpoljunkie
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Nope that doesn't work either. My daughter is a college student without a job.She
is not eligible for medicaid because she has no kids. She has often asked them why she is being punished for being the responsible one and staying in school and having no illegitimate kids. She cannot get help any where that we know of.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Thank you. I've always wondered the same thing,
Medicaid is essentially a program for single mothers, as that's who most of the program is going to. If you don't have kids you practically have to be homeless to qualify for it.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. The plans were supposed to allow children to stay on their parents insurance til 25 or 26.
Perhaps that's not in Baucus' plan.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. What a bureaucratic nightmare what with people going in and out of jobs these days.
I'm going to be unemployed (again!) at the end of this month because my position is being eliminated. I should be eligible for unemployment benefits (again!) but there's no way in hell I can afford COBRA. Under all the plans I would qualify for the expanded Medicaid but what happens when I get a job or contract that pushes my income over the limit? Presumably, I'd go off Medicaid and have to sign up for some private plan. Lather rinse repeat when I lose that job or contract. Multiply by millions of Americans and this thing is starting to look very unwieldy. Those of us who are for single payer aren't just a bunch of unyielding liberals. It really is the best way to go if we want everyone to be covered.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. The $3,800 fine is a whole lot cheaper than buying health insurance. Put me down for the fine. n/t
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
8. Co-ops will be prohibited from setting payment rates for healthcare facilities and providers
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 11:09 AM by flpoljunkie
P. 40 of Baucus' 223 page plan.

http://finance.senate.gov/sitepages/leg/LEG%202009/0916...

Does that mean they cannot negotiate payment rates? I suspect it does.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. If true, it will make them very non-competitive.
All of us with insurance have seen the statements showing how much lower the insurance company rates are compared to the "retail" price.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. And that's the whole idea
The co-ops are designed to fail. Which is why they (along with Baucus and Conrad) are useless.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Understood - and they are trying to argue the same criterion for public option
ignoring that the insurance companies negotiate.
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JimWis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. I agree with you. But I did hear the term advanceable tax credits
at one point. This would mean you would get the credit during the year, which would balance against your credit at tax filing time.

Boy - wouldn't single payer just be a hell of alot easier than all these complicated, and in some cases, useless bills. But that makes too much sense.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Single payer cuts out corporate profits. Let them sell supplemental plans, I say!
Canadians pay about the same average income tax rate as we do--a little over 18%. They get health care. We get a military empire.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
16. It doesn't. It does, however, make him look like a tax-cutter, which means votes
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
18. The tax credit applies even if you pay no income taxes.
It is a refundable tax credit. That means that it is subtracted from the taxes you owe, even if you owe nothing or very little. (You would get a refund in that case.)
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