Greenwald: Wilson's remark "juvenile and dumb, but that's all" Digby: "The President is not a king"

[Becky72]

Today progressive blogger and former constitutional lawyer Glenn Greenwald condemns the crazy rhetoric coming from the right, but opines that Wilson's "you lie" remarks during Obama's speech on health care last night is "one of the least significant examples" of all:

Exerpt:

While the Republican Party is absolutely dominated by people who are exactly that, is yelling at the President really such a bad act? Yes, it's "rude" and indecorous, but as Digby says, the President is not a King, even if George Bush was routinely treated as one as people politely wearing critical t-shirts were barred or even removed from various events where His Majesty appeared, including the State of the Union address.

Greenwald went on to address the opinion by Eugene Robinson in today's Washington Post that this behavior was "unamerican:"

"Eugene Robinson today absurdly calls the GOP's disrespectful behavior at Obama's speech "un-American." Right-wing contempt for Obama is often petty, deeply emotional and ugly -- just like right-wing leaders themselves. But the demand that the President be venerated and treated as royalty is far more "un-American" than disruptive transgressions of etiquette. Wilson's heckling was juvenile and dumb, but that's all it was. If only a fraction of the media dismay devoted to his two-second breach of "decorum" had been directed to, say, rampant presidential lawbreaking, or the implementation of a torture regime, or the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people in our various wars, we would be much better off. The American Right is indeed dominated by crazed extremists who often seem barely in touch with basic reality and who are at war with core American political values, but Joe Wilson's irreverence is one of the least significant examples of that, if it's one at all.

Meanwhile, award-winning progressive blogger Digby (2007 winner of the Paul Wellstone Citizen Leadership Award on behalf of the entire progressive blogosphere) also addressed the issue today:

Excerpt:

"He (Barney Frank in the Rachel Maddow show]) also didn't take this too seriously, pointing out that hecklers are a standard feature of the English parliament.


I don't mind it much either. It's rude and stupid, but Obama isn't a king and it isn't wrong to yell at the president."

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

*all emphasis is mine

[Thrill]

1. Fuck Greenwald. I find it funny that throughout the history of this country

we've never seen this happen. Presidents are always treated with respect and you don't yell at them while they are addressing Congress. It's even against the rules to call another member of Congress a liar in the chamber. But long behold here comes Obama as the President and all of a sudden "it isn't wrong to yell at the president"

Greenwald can kiss my ass.

[Cha]

4. greenwald can go

fuck himself.

[Becky72]

9. I assume you would want Barney Frank to go "#@**" himself too

Since he said the tirade was "not a big deal," as seen in this video of his appearance in the Rachel Maddow show yesterday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P83MuQvAtlA&eurl=http://www.videosurf.com/video/barney-frank-w-rachel-maddow-re-obama-speech-77958547&feature=player_embedded#t=77

[Cha]

11. What-ever

you want to ASS-ume, Bec-key.

They're both stupid on this...oh, and gee, thanks for supplying the vid.

[Becky72]

14. I find it interesting that you are afraid of cursing on Barney

Even though you think it was a big deal and he didn't.

[Cha]

15. I find nothing interesting

about your interest. zero, zilch, nada.

Fuck greenwald.

[sandnsea]

12. Yes Barney Frank can go fuck hiimself too n/t

[Blue_Tires]

23. +1

[Cha]

2. Pigs in their stye have more style

than joe the heckler. He's not even worthy to sit in Chamber..it's against the fucking rules, greenwald.

Nobody's talking about Obama being a king except you, greenwald.

It fucking is wrong in the House Chamber..stupid.

[CJCRANE]

3. AFAIK even in the British Parliament it isn't allowed

to call someone a liar.

[Davis_X_Machina]

8. Nor would interjections be tolerated...

...on a state occasion, like the State Opening of Parliament, when the Queen's Speech is read -- and it's a partisan speech, being written not by HRH, but by the PM's party staff.

A joint session, like the other night, or the SOTU, is a state occasion. Noticed that Biden, the Constitutional President of the Senate, and not Reid, the Majority Leader, was on the dais? State occasion.

Sit on your hands, or don't go.

Let them heckle when the House is under regular order, or in the committee of the whole.

[Cha]

10. Maybe Barney should brush up before

he says shite..

"He (Barney Frank in the Rachel Maddow show]) also didn't take this too seriously, pointing out that hecklers are a standard feature of the English parliament."

[Davis_X_Machina]

13. The're not *always* in order, though n/t

[BeyondGeography]

5. Greenwald ragging on Eugene Robinson

[Cha]

7. I know..who the fuck does

this guy think he is?:silly: "The president is not king":silly: Well he's not a fucking punching bag for joe wilson's vitriol, either.

[Bolo Boffin]

6. I get that

But I also think that Congress Critters should be held to a higher standard, especially in a joint session. That's not just disrespecting the actual President, but the office of the Presidency, and both Houses of Congress assembled. The booing that happened right before Wilson's outburst is about as far as vocally interfering with the President's speech ought to have gone, IMHO.

[Becky72]

16. Greenwald's contact info

To give the authors of these remarks a piece of your mind:

[email protected]
http://twitter.com/GlennGreenwald

Digby's contact info here:
[email protected]

Barney Frank:
http://www.house.gov/frank/contact/index.html

[ErinBerin84]

17. I liked Barney Frank's take on this on Rachel

but I disagree with Greenwald's take on the Eugene Robinson article...I think that Glenn usually makes very valid points, but is almost hyper-sensitive to his perception that people are "treating politicians like royalty", etc. Eugene has criticized Obama many times in his articles this year. That said, I get where he's going (and the fact that making these things into controversies distracts from serious questions) , but I still don't think Eugene's column was absurd.

[Becky72]

19. Do you think, like Frank, that it wasn't a big deal?

Many people have found it to be a big deal.

[ErinBerin84]

20. I think that Barney Frank's take

was good in terms of political strategy and not making that the main story (and by saying that it just proves that Obama was effective in getting his points across and that it gets Republicans frustrated because they know Obama's getting through to the public) , if that makes sense, but the Wilson thing did piss me off.

[carpe diem]

18. The 43 previous presidents of this country were able to walk into that...

...chamber and speak to both houses of congress and be treated with respect. Through world wars and the civil war and the vietnam war and the ugliest, nastiest, darkest days of the civil rights movement, nobody dared show disrespect to the CIC in that forum on those occasions. Now, for some reason, with this president, it's no big deal? Oh.yes.it.is!

[Cha]

21. But, Obama isn't King!

:silly::+ :dunce:

[AspenRose]

26. Let me get this straight: Affording the C in C respect = treating him like royalty.

OK.


Got it.

I'm so GLAD these media types have explained it to me, aren't you? It's crystal. clear.





PS-Media types: We fought a war to break away from Britain. We're not in Britain. And dipshit Wilson violated his own party's protocol

http://rules-republicans.house.gov/Educational/Read.aspx?ID=5

[Jennicut]

22. Greenwald misses the mark...it was not merely rude. They hate Obama and want him to be destroyed.

I am starting to think Greenwald really does not like Obama and it comes out here.
Its wrong against any President and sets a bad precedent. Greenwald uses a RW talking point...Obama is the so called "messiah". Whatever.

[Cha]

24. It definetly comes

out here. Way to expose yourself, greenwald.

[KittyWampus]

25. Greenwald is yet another attention whore, AFAIC. Like Sirota. They know what will get their audienc

going.

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. These clowns call Obama supporters apologists

But don't miss an opportunity to stand up in support of idiot Joe Wilson?

Unbelievable.

[Uzybone]

28. Greenwald is coming unglued

[DFLforever]

29. Digby's wrong. The US president is LIKE a king in that he is

head of state. The British PM is merely head of government while the Queen is head of state. Members might heckle the PM in parliament but they do not heckle the queen.

[tomg]

30. I have to admit that I honestly feel

ambivalent about this. There is no question that it was disrespectful, crude, utterly erroneous ( but what else can you expect from a Republican congress person) and idiotically out of place. To me, it was a very big thing and should be treated as a very big deal. Joe Wilson will be held to account for his stupidity and lack of civility, and in the next election, I want to see that moran's ass kicked so hard he has the taste of shit in his mouth for the rest of his life. I also want to see a return to civility ( and by this I mean, the Republican party stops acting like they are all auditioning for spots on Glenn Beck's show "Who Wants to be a Racist Hate Monger and a Millionaire." )

At the same time, I can't tell you how many times I watched George Bush over the least eight years and I just wanted one - just one - elected person and person of conscience - to stand up and call him out for his lies that were destroying this country and Iraq ( and so many other places). When Bush spoke of enhanced interrogation, I wanted someone to call out and say "don't you mean torture."

I am not saying either act would be without consequrences. Like all acts, there must be consequences. He should be censured, and there must be very real penalties ( loss of seniority, committee whatever, and ultimately facing the electorate) so that it isn't simply the "frustrated" tantrums of a spoiled and out of control child and so that in the future such acts are not taken lightly. So that they are acts of conscience with consequences. I don't want to give up that principal up, particularly for a complete shit like Joe Wilson.

[saltpoint]

31. The president is not a king and you and I aren't giraffes, but neither

of those facts obtains against the context of Wilson's puerility.

It was Wilson's call to stick his ass out the bus window. And he did so.

[saltpoint]

32. There are a lot of teenagers who are given to understand that whether

they want to or not, they'll be going to school or church or some civic event or other.

They are given to understand that whether or not they are enthusiastic about having to attend these functions, and even if they would rather be doing almost anything else, there is a code of conduct they are expected to uphold in which a residual civility must prevail, in which other persons are shown respect owed to all persons.

A very significant majority of those teenagers, despite being teenagers, do uphold that code in that zone of conduct, and in so doing eclipse the emotional maturity of Congressman Joe Wilson, Republican of South Carolina, in his puerile outburst of this past Wednesday night on the floor of the U.S. Congress.