What if we trade: creation of a strong public option and drop all the insurance regulations?

[phleshdef]

This is an honest question and one that I haven't quite seen proposed. What if we let the insurance companies do whatever the hell they want, other than cutting out the wasteful fundings for parts of the government side of things, we leave them completely alone. We pass a strong government offered insurance program that is not for profit.

We also go ahead with all the other cost cutting measures such as funding the building of a cohesive electronic medical system and other party neutral, but GOOD areas of the proposed reforms. My guess is the insurance companies would still have to compete with the public option or go out of business.

Thats really the end result I thought we were trying to create, either make the insurance companies act in a manner that benefits society rather than damages it or become something the market no longer desires to have a part of if they don't.

[sandnsea]

1. It might get passed easier, but

it would end up with the public option having to take everyone with pre-existing conditions if private insurance didn't have to. That in itself would make private insurance cheaper and would bankrupt the public option. It wouldn't work in the long run.

[phleshdef]

3. The health care system should be monitored and updated as needed, annually, IMO.

Perhaps that should be another part of the bill, come to think of it.

[gravity]

2. Because you are screwing over everyone who already has good insurance

Insurance can still have act in a manor that benefits society with regulation.

[phleshdef]

4. But they have another option if their insurance is screwing them is what I mean.

[gravity]

10. So you are forcing people to give up their private option for a public one

There really isn't any benefit for lessening regulations on insurance politically. You might win over an insurance company, but you lose the support from everybody who already has insurance.

[phleshdef]

11. Um no, if my car insurance company raises my prices higher than I like, I can go somewhere cheaper..

...in this case, that "somewhere" just happens to be a program created and regulated by the federal government.

[gravity]

14. That is just a libertarian argument

That doesn't work in reality. There is a reason why the current insurance industry regulated as it is.

The only effect off lessening regulation is that most people will abandon it for a public option. If you keep a regulated insurance market, then there will be competition between the private and public options, which gives consumers more choice in the end.

[phleshdef]

16. Um, a Libertarian would advocate the creation of a government ran healthcare program???

[Oregone]

6. No you aren't. You said it. They have "good" insurance.

Itll pay out and its affordable, eh?


If its not, its "bad" insurance, and they would be sensible to switch to an open Medicare option.

[gravity]

12. You can get good insurance if you are young and healthy

The more regulations you have in place, the better the insurance is going to be too. There is no point in having less regulation in the insurance industry. If anything we should be proposing more.

[Oregone]

17. Im just looking at would would produce the healthiest system

One incredibly affordable, progressively funded (subsidised), non-profit public insurance option (Medicare) that resembled what Canada has setup, competing against 400 withering, expensive, shitty, for-profit, unethical companies (which will die if they don't reform themselves).

Or 400 thriving, expensive, shitty, for-profit, unethical companies that worm around regulations, and a shitty option only available to those who are unprofitable to cover conventionally.

Well....hell, Id take Medicare for All and let the fuckers die. If they are "good", they will be fine and serve people well.

And yeah, about the healthy and young thing....sucks to let private companies cherry pick the young (who would game such a system) and burden a public system with the more expensive. Yes...on second thought, ban the fuckers. Medicare for All. Nothing else. Fuck it. Democrats gotta get their heads out of their asses already and stop caving into themselves.

[ashling]

5. My feeling is that the two MUST work together

Regulations will ensure that these protections go in effect across the board now (as in, as soon as they become effective). A public option - even a 'strong" public option is not going to have the market power to compete with the death insurance companies initially - it will take a while of people seeing that it is the way to go.

Just putting regulations into effect won't work either. We have all seen how weak enforcement of government regulations is, in fact, no regulation. Even though I think Charlie Cook and the "experts" are full of it re: the Dems losing big in 2010, they will inevitably be replaced by another group (notie I did not say Republicans - or Republiturds as I call them). And even if there is not a policy decision by a future administration, we all know how the revolving door works and how corporate money gets in there. A strong "public option" - and by that I mean at least a quasi governmental non-profit, not necessarily gov't. run - which returns uses programatic funds for health care rather than for profit for investors or huge salaries and bonuses for executives, is absolutely necessary to keep pressure to follow regulations and to keep prices down.

There needs also to be assertive auditing of the corporate insurers along with the regulations. Not another one of those voluntary or self regulatin schemes - which means no regulation



Disclaimer: Sorry about any typos, etc. My eyesight is for shit and so my proofing sucks.

[phleshdef]

9. I agree that would be ideal. I guess my idea was along the lines of "compromise" that might work...

...I was thinking of a way to compromise and perhaps still win and thats the first idea that came to mind.

[CreekDog]

7. if you think insurance companies are brutalizing their customers now

you ain't seen nothing yet.

imagine insurance agreements written like credit card contracts and no government intervention to rein in the bad actors.

now imagine people with those types of policies going broke and ending up on Medicaid.

we end up with the bill.

[sandnsea]

18. Except for the people who are young and healthy

Although why they would pay for insurance if the public option was available when they get truly sick is beyond me.

[Oregone]

8. Open enrollment Medicare for All....any day!

You wouldn't need regulations if you had this. All the shitty insurers would wither and die.

[Laelth]

13. That would work.

I don't need the end of pre-existing conditions nor the end of rescission and lifetime caps if I can get government insurance that avoids the evils of the health insurance cabal. All the private insurance companies would have to change their policies, regardless, without government regulations. We don't need to "trade" anything. Just opening up a competitor that did not practice those evil tactics ought to do the trick.

I like this idea very much.

:dem:

-Laelth

[sandnsea]

19. And how long until the public plan is bankrupt

If they took all the pre-existing sick people and the private insurers took money from the healthy and then cut them loose when they got incurably sick.

[Laelth]

20. Bankrupt? It will be bankrupt as soon as the Federal Government is bankrupt.

I have no use for those who argue this plan must be revenue neutral. That's nonsense.

We passed Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy, and nobody cared.
We invaded Iraq and wrote a blank check to cover the costs, and nobody cared.
We wrote a blank check to AIG and the banks through TARP, and nobody cared--not much, anyway.

Now that a Democrat wants to do something good for the American people--now, all of a sudden, we're concerned about the deficit? That's just typical Republican whining. They don't want Democrats doing anything that might be good for Americans because, as Bill Kristol argued, that would hurt Republicans at the polls.

imho, if we have enough money to kill Iraqis, we have enough money to provide health care to all Americans. And I don't care what the irrelevant Republicans think. Nor do I have any interest in balancing the budget or tackling the national debt during a recession. Now is the time for the government to spend money, not collect it.

The public plan needs to be backed by the full Federal treasury. The public plan, then, will go bankrupt when the Federal Government does.

:dem:

-Laelth

[sandnsea]

21. So let the insurance companies get obscenely rich

And let the taxpayers pay for all the injuries and illnesses. That's your plan?

[Laelth]

22. If need be, yes.

Frankly, I don't think the insurance companies will get obscenely rich if we were to adopt the plan described in the OP. I think the insurance companies will either voluntarily give up rescission, pre-existing conditions, and life time caps (in which case their profits will go way down), or they'll keep these policies and 90% of Americans will voluntarily choose to participate in the public plan instead (in which case the insurance companies' profits will also go down because they will lose their customer base).

Really. I think this proposal merits consideration.

:dem:

-Laelth

[sandnsea]

24. Why would they?

If you were a mechanic and people paid you $50 a month to cover car repairs, but you could cancel that client the second the car needed an overhaul - why wouldn't you?

Do you know that that's what happens with car insurance now? If you have too many claims in a certain period of time, they cancel you. And yet you have to have insurance, so they stay in business.

There will always be people looking for the cheaper way so as long as there was an insurance company out there, there'd be people paying them.

Meantime, more and more of the cost would go on the taxpayer and in THIS country, that means Republicans in office who would immediately end all government health care.

[Enrique]

15. there would be a mad race to steal billions of dollars

all the insurance executives would know the private system was headed for collapse in a few years of no regulations and they'd all trample each other to loot the companies as fast as possible.

[TheCoxwain]

23. That is a crazy idea my friend ..

the Private insurance would end up with the healthiest people while the public option will be saddled with the sick ones and will consequently implode.