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Right, Joe (Scarborough). Repubs. are innocent in this-it's the DEMS.' fault that the bill is

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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:45 PM
Original message
Right, Joe (Scarborough). Repubs. are innocent in this-it's the DEMS.' fault that the bill is
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 02:46 PM by jenmito
having problems passing. "The Dems. have 60 votes in the Senate and a huge majority in the House! If they can't pass it it's THEIR fault!"

What Joe is missing is that if the Repubs. hadn't gone out LYING about "socialism" and "govt. takeover" and "death panels" if this passes, we WOULD be able to pass this with 58 Dems. in the Senate and a couple Repubs. (since Kennedy and Byrd usually can't be there). To act like the Repubs. had nothing to do with this and that now the possible failure of Dems. to pass a bill (with a public option) is the Dems.' fault is a lie.
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quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. The MSM has been in a frenzy reporting bad facts which scare the living Bajezus out of the Gullable.
But YES the democrats ONCE AGAIN are the wusses that they are that are making this more difficult than it needs to be.

Like bad tasting medicine it comes a time when a parent has to act like one and force feed the child to getting better. This is one of those times.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's right...
but BECAUSE of that, there are now some "Blue Dogs" who are scared of not getting re-elected since their constituents are believing the lies. That's why we need to do this through reconciliation.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Since DU and the left is already blaming it on Dems
it was only a matter of time before Republicans picked it up and ran with it to create more division. It's all they've got, it's all they do.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. The Repubs. started with the lies first and that's when everything went awry. n/t
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Sure, the death panel lies
But blaming Dems for the resulting chaos didn't originate from the right.

And honestly, a lot of the complaints the right made, I saw here at DU first. Specifically cutting Medicare, which someone posted within about 24 hours of the announcement of various savings universal health care will give to Medicare. They turned around and called them cuts, and after that the right started in.

wsws.org starts an enormous number of attacks on Democrats that the right picks up afterwards.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Oh...
I didn't see those comments here. I defer to you. Thanks for the info.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Check this out
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Sure this is just a bitchy rant, but I've seen several criticisms of Democrats from liberal blogs that sound exactly like that Joe Scab nonsense.

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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Yuck...
thanks for that. I didn't see it before.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Democrats set the scenario, and they chose an uphill one for themselves.
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 04:55 PM by quakerboy
The lies are just boulders the pugs are rolling down the hill that Democrats created.

I think that things went awry in the original framing of the issue, and the initial offer in the negotiating process. If we had started with making sure our own team was lined up and ready to go, with a solid specific plan, I think there would not have been nearly the opportunity for these lies to be taken seriously. And if we had started from a demand for a single payer or even socialized health care system, the public option would be major compromise and a potential middle ground, rather than the idealistic goal that might have to be abandoned.

Edit to fix cut/paste problem
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. I think if the Repubs. hadn't started with their outrageous campaign of lies,
the support for the plan including the public option would not have fallen at all and would've even risen since the Dems. would've been able to get their message out instead of having to knock down lies constantly instead.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. And if Dems hadn't set the stage for those lies
by leaving gaps in their defense and not having a coherent single plan ready to go, there would be no fertile ground for the lies to fall into in the first place.

Democrats are the initiators of this. They did not come to it unified, nor did they approach the arguments smartly or as a team. Instead, they allowed a situation where democrats are fighting democrats. The republicans are happy to throw in their two cents, but if the democrats were unified, it would have no effect.

Or, if you prefer, if the president had set out a specific plan, the Congress would have had a template to work from. Details would be tweaked and bartered around, but there would be one plan that we could point to whenever a lie was set forth. Instead, we have to look at half a dozen different comities and plans, none of which is is even settled on as a real option. As they say, the first draft of a document is the most powerful. And our first draft is 6 different bills times a thousand pages each.

If you have horse, there's not much point in arguing whether the right wheel is wobbly or not, you still aren't going anywhere.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yes! I want the Repubs' healthcare reform plan. Lower taxes for the wealthy!
:sarcasm:
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. Sadly, He's right. We don't need them and never did.
The Dems should have known the Repugs were going to go out lying. We did. Keith & Rachel did. Malloy, Rhodes, Hartmann and Schultz all did. Why didn't they?
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. But the Repubs. weren't innocent in all of this. Without them, we would've gotten
every Dem. vote and a few Repubs., too.
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Repubs are never innocent, of course. Dems should have known that by now.
If Impeachment over a blow job didn't convince them, then certainly "Questioning the President in a time of War hurts the troops." should have at least fixed the tone deafness.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. He has a good point and they've been great in making it. ReThugs haven't been innocent...
...but even reThugs know now they're not even needed.

Way to go DLC, you're hurting America and getting paid for it like good capitalist
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cleveramerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. the circular firing squad is alive and well
I didn't need him to tell me
Its painfully evident.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
16. There's no way "innocent" would
EVER be a description of repubs. EVER.
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
17. Joe is nuts.
He is being promoted by the Republican NBC war lords. Gregory is a big fat head. I do not watch Meet the Press nor This week with the idiot George. I am fed up with the nonsense they spew. I like Sunday Morning.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. The inescapable truth is that he's exactly right
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 05:40 PM by depakid
The Dems can do this by reconciliation if they choose.

All that's lacking thus far is the political fortitude.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. He's exactly right that the Repubs. are innocent in this? That's part of what he said. n/t
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Republicans are just doing what they've done for almost 30 years now
What did anyone expect? That they'd up and change their stripes and become reasonable?

That they'd engage in a full and fair debate using actual facts and honest analysis?

That the corporate media would stop elevating their outright lies to the level or truthful statements?

Or stop promoting outlandish allegations while refusing to cover serious issues and responsible solutions?

Nope- that was all a given. Can't blame Republicans for that anymore than you can blame a crocodile for eating Fido, given half the chance.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
23. Do I have to say this again..
Scarborough is a squinty eyed,beady eyed,lying ass,asshole with an anger management problem. I get just as angry looking at him as I do when I see Bush...
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