Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Do you know what's sad?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:02 AM
Original message
Do you know what's sad?
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 09:24 AM by babylonsister
The President is getting all kinds of bad press because he's been too civil. What's wrong with Americans and the media? I just saw a segment on m$nbc to prove the point. He's too nice. :eyes:

Everyone would approve of President Obama more if he'd bash a few heads, or act more like a rethug?

I wish he'd criticize the rethugs more, call them out on their b.s., but I hope he doesn't lose his civility. I think he shows a distinct difference from the rethugs by being nice. Now he has to start disagreeing vociferously. But I don't want him to use rethug tactics either.

Hopefully we are better than them, because I sure don't want to be like them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. It was his civility that won him the election IMO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. He has always been civil, but it was his strategy that he won.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes. Very true. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. As is much to common they mistake civility with weakness
Hopefully like most people who are strong but who choose to be nice about it, he'll come up with a way that takes their power without making them lose face. It's the way diplomacy works and I believe he's truly diplomatic. This aspect of him tends to make me think he's giving them plenty of rope to hang themselves with. It's pretty obvious to me anyway, and it would really surprise me, no, shock me if he turned out to be as naive as he appears to be sometimes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. We are better, in humanity, than THEM. But if we don't use EMOTION vice PRAGMATISM ...
right now and until the vote on the Health Reform Bill, we'll LOSE.

We'll be morally right yet crushed under the jackboots of FOX and Friends, etc.

Oh well, at least when we pass unto the next world, we'll be sure to "inherit the earth."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
39. Not sure how to respond to you but please know the public option
is still on the table!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. Its the moral decay of the media and Rethugs that being a total prick
is considered a good thing. I do think Obama can be more forceful on what he wants and turn his back completely on the Rethugs but I never want him to be like them, ever. I don't want any Dem being like that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
6. He is truly inexperienced in the ways of Washington
And that's a good thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
41. how can that possibly be a good thing?
the guy is getting owned because of his inexperience.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
State the Obvious Donating Member (561 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
7. The media need CONFLICT in order to create their "stories"...
We, at last, have an example of ADULT leadership in President Obama. He is an adult leader who is forced to deal with childish behavior.

The media depend on the adult v. children squabbles that keep them going. How could they survive with facts...... minus the drama? The conflict is what keeps them in business. If they don't have it, they create it. And are there any creators of conflict BETTER than the Republicans?

(The media and Republicans feed off of each other. Neither could survive without the other.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
8. Civility is not the American way. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
9. They want him to bash heads so that they can criticize him MORE. Or they want a smarmy LIAR like
* so those who want Plausible Deniability can sign-on with him and others who want an enemy can call him a "Liar" and make it stick for real.

He's not playing their fucking game and that pisses them off even more.


* he-whose-name-is-so-profoundly-disgusting-that-not-even-someone-who-will-say-fuck-and-shit-and-damn-and-any-and-all-other-manner-of-obscenities-will-NOT-say-it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. Exactly. Damned if he does... nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
10. At least on health care, he comes off as not caring all that much;
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 09:49 AM by leftofthedial
he's more interested in playing nice with repuke assholes than in saving American lives

To the left and to people who *do* care about health care, it makes him seem as though his loyalty is to his elitist cronies.

To repukes, who will hate him undyingly until the end of his last term (probably in 2012 at this rate), it gives them ammunition to call him weak.

That leaves only the 5% or 10% or so of hardcore DLC-ish "centrist" neodemocratic loyalists who think he's doing the right thing.

He's pretty thoroughly screwed the pooch on this one. He has played a major role in ensuring that meaningful reform won't happen. 70% of Americans expected him to lead efforts to drastically change health care; he abandoned them early in this process, and they know it. 20% or so will hate him no matter what. It's hard to look good in polls when you only have 10% of the people left "with you."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. If he didn't care, we wouldn't be in this pickle. He'd never have
brought it up and given himself this headache.

I don't even know how you could say that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I don't have any evidence that he cares more about health care than he does
about his Senatorial, old-boy's-club desire for "bipartisanship."

Do you?

Don't confuse his campaign rhetoric with his actual record so far.

He didn't bring up the health care issue. It was there before he ever even ran for the Senate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Then you'll hate this take, which seems logical to me...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

snip//


This man is, like FDR, a genuine liberal, but also a serious politician. He is not interested in moral victories or noble defeats. He wants to win. What hes figured out, however, is thatparticularly after two full decades of Bush/Clinton/Bush warsthe American people feel more comfortable with a politician who appears to reach out to the other side, who gives them a chance to play ball. This works both as an electoral strategy and a governing strategy. He gave in a little on the stimulus, but just enough to keep the ball rolling. He could always come back for more, later if necessary.

Whats more, that concession strengthened the necessary narrative for this, far more significant one. And given that the Republicans have all but admitted that they are acting in bad faithand their supporters are showing up at health-care meetings as if armed to fight the War of the Worlds, and spouting Nazi-style slogansObama can certainly go to the country and swear up and down that he gave this bipartisan thing every possible chance but these folks are, um, more interested in defeating him than solving the health-insurance problems that Americans face every day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. I read that thread. I agree. He is a clever professional politician. No dispute here.
It also is clear that America will not get the real health care reform we deserve.

It also is clear that, despite your claim to the contrary, he can NOT come back for more, either on stimulus or on health care. He has lost the political momentum.

What you describe in the other thread is the triumph of politics over statesmanship.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Your negativeness aside, you should try to prove all your
assertions. If health care reform gets passed, watch how much political momentum he has. I know, you'll be disappointed, but that's too bad.

No one thought he'd ever succeed in winning the election either, until he did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. Again, I disagree with your assertion.
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 10:23 AM by leftofthedial
It was pretty clear he'd win the election from about midway through the primaries. Sure, he could have screwed it up. But he was clearly the front-runner from Iowa on for all but about three weeks after the repuke convention.

He has worked hard to find the lowest possible degree of deck chair rearranging that he thinks his base will let him call "reform." I think enough of us see through this that the kind of momentum he had in February or March will never come back. He has alienated much of his own base.

(This is the inevitable outcome for a right-center corporatist who relies on left-wing support; in order to be who and what he is, he MUST sever his connections with the left. After 30 years of disastrous neocon rule, the left is in no mood for more cynical "lesser-of-evils" triangulation by yet another neocon in Dem clothing. Unfortunately for Obama, the left is nearly half of his base. Strike one was escalation in Afghanistan and failure to exit Iraq. Strike two was devoting 90%+ of the "stimulus" to giveaways to banks, with zero reform attached. Strike three is health care.)

If, by some miracle, real health care reform is passed, I will be ecstatic, not disappointed. You see, I care about America and Americans, not about which politician "wins."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Well Said. Recommending this post.
:patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:54 AM
Original message
Excellent post, I wholeheartedly agree with! eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
14. Sorry, but being civil to people who want you dead isn't smart. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. So he should act like the idiots on the right?
I'm not surprised you think he should. I, as usual, disagree.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. He needs to WRITE THEM OFF not kiss up to them, as he has been doing. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. And I bet he will in September. That doesn't mean he has to act
like them.

White House may push through health care without Republicans

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/19/health.care/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Nowhere did I say he should act like them - ignoring them completely would be smart...
Your constant put-downs of people who dare to think instead of blindly cheer are way out of line.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Suck it up. You said he shouldn't be acting civil to people who want to
kill him, did you not?

And oh so sorry if you think that was a put-down. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings. :cry:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Again you got it wrong - your head is as far up your ass as the town hall screamers'. nt
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 10:24 AM by polichick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Hahaha! This thread is about civility. Look in the mirror
if you want a vision of what the town hall screamers look like! :rofl:

And i quote, from you, so I guess I didn't get it wrong after all:

Sorry, but being civil to people who want you dead isn't smart.

Look up a couple of lines, I can't make it up!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. You look in the mirror, a few posts back. I call you on it and you're rude again...
You refuse to think, only cheering mindlessly (head up the ass).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #29
45. Not a fight you can win.
It's easier to churn out pom-poms than rational thought.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
19. Media trying to goad the President into becoming the "angry black man"
Didn't happen during the primaries when they called him a traitor.. not going to happen now that they are calling him a Nazi... He will just go out on the stump and make these small-minded people look foolish. when Pres. Obama goes out and about and talks and eats a cheese burger or buys his kids ice cream, these idiots look more nuts to the majority of us because he's just a nice, normal man.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. Exactly. The MSM is full of sh*t; they'll bash him any way he moves. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. And, through it all ..President Obama
continues to be who he is no matter how many others call stupidly for him to be just like they are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
38. Yeah, they are...and so are the fucking fail
pushers who want him to be just like them :silly:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
22. Rec 4. I partially agree. He definately should call out the lies and liars. But he shouldn't get
down in the mud where they want to drag him and where they excell. But he certainly should have his "Rove'er".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
30. You CAN be civil, and STILL dismantle your opponents.
Witness Jon Stewart's total destruction of Willy Crystal and Betsy McCaughey.
Never raised his voice or said a bad word, and yet completely exposed them.

There is a difference between being civil, and helping them retain credibility (enabling).
Obama should be politely kicking their legs out from under them, not pandering to them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. I agree. I think he needs to do that. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
32. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##



This week is our third quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
35. "I sure don't want to be like them."
How about being a bit more like Lyndon Johnson, then?

Certain things are just inescapable realities if one wants to win policy fights, rather than be a principled martyr for a cause.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
36. babylonsister, he is black hence the atrosity against him. I so want him
to stand up and fight against the morons! Makes me want to cry how assholish some white people are!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
40. nice guys finish last
politics is a blood sport, didn't Obama realize that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Not always but this is a political site not eharmony!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GivePeaceAchance Donating Member (950 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
44. Yes, the argument to take their tactic is the debate to one day see our party losing all rationality
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 10:55 AM by GivePeaceAchance
in our debate too and we really don't want to go there. We're just smarter than that and we can outwit them if we put our heads together, than to get into their screaming matches. It's all about dignity. The GOP want us to believe politics is about werstle mania and that's simply chaos. President Obama is simply aiming for a higher level of discussion, and to work things out in the arena of ideas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Oct 01st 2014, 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC