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It's 3 a.m. Do You Know Where Hillary Clinton Is?

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 01:45 AM
Original message
It's 3 a.m. Do You Know Where Hillary Clinton Is?
She's not answering those crisis calls at the White House. But she's quietly revolutionizing American foreign policy.

By David Rothkopf
Sunday, August 23, 2009

When it comes to Hillary Rodham Clinton, we're missing the forest for the pantsuits.

Clinton is not the first celebrity to become the nation's top diplomat -- that honor goes to her most distant predecessor, Thomas Jefferson, who by the time he took office was one of the most famous and gossiped-about men in America -- but she may be the biggest. And during her first seven months in office, the former first lady, erstwhile presidential candidate and eternal lightning rod has drawn more attention for her moods, looks, outtakes and (of course) relationship with her husband than for, well, her work revamping the nation's foreign policy.

Even venerable publications -- such as one to which I regularly contribute, Foreign Policy -- have woven into their all-Hillary-all-the-time coverage odd discussions of Clinton's handbag and scarf choices. Daily Beast editor Tina Brown, while depicting herself as a Clinton supporter, has been scathing and small-minded in discussing such things as Clinton's weight and hair, while her "defense" of Hillary in her essay "Obama's Other Wife" was as sexist as the title suggests.

Indeed, sexism has followed Clinton from the campaign trail to Foggy Bottom, as seen most recently in the posturing outrage surrounding the exchange in Congo when Clinton reacted with understandable frustration to the now-infamous question regarding her husband's views. Major media outlets have joined the gossipfest, whether the New York Times, which covered Clinton's first big policy speech by discussing whether she was in or out with the White House, or The Washington Post, where a couple of reporters mused about whether a brew called Mad Bitch would be the beer of choice for the secretary of state.

Amid all the distractions, what is Clinton actually doing? Only overseeing what may be the most profound changes in U.S. foreign policy in two decades -- a transformation that may render the presidencies of Bill Clinton and George W. Bush mere side notes in a long transition to a meaningful post-Cold War worldview.

The secretary has quietly begun rethinking the very nature of diplomacy and translating that vision into a revitalized State Department, one that approaches U.S. allies and rivals in ways that challenge long-held traditions. And despite the pessimists who invoked the "team of rivals" cliche to predict that President Obama and Clinton would not get along, Hillary has defined a role for herself in the Obamaverse: often bad cop to his good cop, spine stiffener when it comes to tough adversaries and nurturer of new strategies. Recognizing that the 3 a.m. phone calls are going to the White House, she is instead tackling the tough questions that, since the end of the Cold War, have kept America's leaders awake all night.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary. Is. Awesome.

That is all.
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Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. I do not know, nor do I care.
That is all.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Shoo, go spoil someone else's thread.
x(
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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
44. Wow, she is the sos, but Obama is the President, what is your point?
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. Is not caring the new caring enough to reply?
Irony confuses me! Are you bitterly clinging to something bitter? Do you need a hug?
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
41. I love your entire post and will shamelessly steal it and use it
as soon as I can....
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #41
51. Why, thank you!
:hi:
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. I have no idea how she would have done in the White House, but...
she has certainly found a great calling at Foggy Bottom.

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Oh, she would have been great there too.
She's always been a hard worker, and after 8 years in the WH and 8 years in the Senate, we would have had a person in the unique position of having served at both ends of Pennsylvania Ave. She knows how both places work and how to get things done. We never had anyone with that kind of experience before, I only hope that we get that chance some day in future years.

:-)
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. I think that Hillary is engergizing the State Department
and placing the right people in the right positions.

It was reported that when Condi was anywhere in the building the environment was hostile....employees were extremely unhappy with the policies she was pursuing.

Bravo Hillary!!! This is change we can believe in!
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. I think some of the recent reports on Hillary Clinton are to create a rift in the democrats.
It seems there is an intent to paint Hillary as big, and doing that paint the blue dogs, or further right democrats bigger. It almost seems to be trying to beef up the conservative democrat coalition that after the primary still supported Hillary for a few weeks. Remember how some were discussing super delegate issues.

It would be interesting to hear what Bill and Hillary Clinton think about the public option. Where they stand on it. If they do not support it, I would be interested in hearing their arguments.


It seems this is a continuation of trying to make it look like a split in the Democrats over health care. And also the way the articles I have read lately are phrasing it they are really speaking about Hillary as separate from the administration. Of how she is making policy, about what she is doing. It seems they are promoting the same conflict between President Obama and Clinton meme they have tried to use many times.

Again I say this because I have been seeing alot of Hillary articles that have her quoted on foreign policy while not mentioning President Obama. There seems to be some illusion creation in the process. Although I do think Hillary Clinton does a good job as Secretary of State, her policies are part of a bigger administration and it seems the news articles are not phrasing it that way. Since it is a recent trend at least on posts here, it seems to be a PR attempt with another purpose.

Also the repeated comments about her gender seem to be trying to match some meme or comments.

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Hillary is one of the most recognizable and powerful women in the world.
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 02:18 AM by Beacool
Therefore, more than as a politician/diplomat, she is treated by the media as if she were Madonna or any other super celebrity. The media loves to create fake conflicts because they produce ratings and move newspapers. Both Clintons have made millions for the MSM over the years. The ridiculous overreaction to her response to the student in Congo is the most recent example. This nonsense took up the entire front page of both the NY Daily News and the NY Post.

:eyes:
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. There's a lot of phoneyism in the notion that Hillary's one of the more conservative Dems.
I'm to the left of either her or Obama but there isn't much ideological space between the two. True, on foreign policy she was more hawkish than Obama, especially regarding the Middle East, but that's largely a matter of New York ethnic politics. Media like to make races about ideology, even when there's not a big ideological difference. If Hillary had been the presidential nominee, you can bet your life that righties would have gone back to their wailing from the 90s that Hillary was a Maoist lunatic femmunist hellbent on raising everyone's taxes to 120% and lopping off every guy's pecker with a cleaver.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. New York ethnic politics??
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 06:02 PM by karynnj
She did represent NY, but she is not from the NYC area and really didn't live much - at best half time for 9 years. Lautenberg, who is not just a native born New Jerseyan, but Jewish is far more liberal. (Not to mention both Clintons were in favor of aiding the Contras in the 1980s.) If you look at the small number of places where HRC and Obama have shown fp differences since he was in office - he was always to the left. (The ones I saw were Iran, re-establishing relations with Syria, and in dealing with Honduras.)

The Washington Post had an article on some rankings. Obama was more liberal on foreign policy, but they were both very liberal on social issues. The comments comparing HRC and Obama were just from 2006, but there were more detailed comparisons of Biden, Dodd, and Clinton using their entire Senate career.

Hillary was very liberal on social issues, but among the 5 least liberal on foreign policy. (The other dimension was economic and I don't remember it.)
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. I'm not equating Jewish with Likudnik or hawkish.
However that is the subsection of Jewish folks with which lots of pols in New York align. I think it says more about how lots of pols in NY do ethnic politics, than it does about Jewish folks.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Agreed
Though HRC was not really a NY politician. She had already been First Lady and had never lived in the area. Everyone thought that her goal was President. My point is that well before she was a NY Senator, she favored a more hawkish foreign policy than most NE Democrats. It is a position very consistent with a Southern Democrat.

I am Jewish - and know that in 2002, 2003, there was a higher % of anti- war Jews than the percent of non-Jews. But, you are right there is a segment of elite Jews who are neo-cons.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
8. Instructing her publicist to get articles like this written so people won't NOTICE that she didn't
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 07:53 AM by blm
handle North Korea, Syria or Pakistan......John Kerry and his SFRC team did ALL the heavy lifting.


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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Your assertion is so laughable that it doesn't even merit a serious response.
:7
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Laugh away - you CAN'T respond because you don't have the goods...laughing is ALL the cover you have
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 10:52 AM by blm

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/04/clinton.anal... /

By Elise Labott
CNN State Department Producer

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Bill Clinton's trip to North Korea was the culmination of weeks of quiet diplomacy with Pyongyang and subtle public statements aimed at freeing American journalists Laura Ling and Euna Lee.

Having secured the journalists' release, will the trip eventually coax North Korea back to the negotiating table?

There was no shortage of envoys ready to travel to North Korea and negotiate the women's release.

Some heavyweights were turned down by the North Koreans: former Vice President Al Gore, a co-founder of the media outfit the women were working for when they were arrested, and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, a former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations whose previous missions to North Korea included negotiating the release of a detained American.

Lower-level envoys like former U.S. ambassador to South Korea and current Korea Society Chairman Donald Gregg, Sig Harrison, an expert on North Korean nukes who has traveled there several times, and Han Park, a scholar at the University of Georgia, all offered their services.

Sen. John Kerry, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, was also closely involved in coordinating efforts with the White House and State Department to free the women. According to sources intimately involved with the efforts, Kerry received an official invitation to visit Pyongyang to facilitate their release and open a larger dialogue on the nuclear issue after several weeks of quiet direct diplomacy between Kerry and his aides and North Korea.
>>>>>>>

Both Clintons sided with Bush on Syria and Pakistan - they are NOT considered honest brokers by them, no matter what spin is published. In fact, Bill wrote such an UNFAIR, incendiary blogpost about Syria's leader that he had to scrub it before Hillary's confirmation hearing. It was posted a few times here before it was scrubbed - on threads you were on...so, I know you read it.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. You never HAVE serious responses because you don't bother to read articles not puff pieces for HRC
Want to go down the road with Syria, again, Bea?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. +1
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
79. I don't require that a SecState do all the heavy lifting.
Sometimes its enough that she get out of the way. Senators and ex-presidents are supposed to be heavily involved, too.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #79
92. Except the article ignored the ESSENTIAL efforts of those who DID do the work in order to
credit Hillary.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #92
95. That would seem to be more the fault of the article than of the SecState. n/t
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #95
99. Sure, if you think this article happened in a vacuum and without the input of her office.
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 12:04 PM by blm
But, by the tone of it and the excessively sympathetic conclusions drawn by the writer, I highly doubt it.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. I don't mind so much whatever input you believe State had.
The more serious problem, IMO, is a paper of record that fails to question whatever-it-was.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. heheh....a pare that is supposed to be 'of record' but hasn't been for at least a decade....
unfortunately.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
90. Just remember that she follows WH dictates.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
96. Anger has a tendency to wear people down and make thieir immune
system not function right. Just saying.



Oh, btw, it also tends to make them bitter.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #96
101. I wouldn't call Hillary bitter - I just call her one of the establishment tools that Dems are stuck
having to endure and deal with for a while longer while she and Bill play lip service to us....yet again.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #101
103. Hey, I think that they are calling YOU angry and bitter, not the SOS.
:rofl:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #103
108. just turning it back because of its inaccuracy...or did that obvious notion escape you?
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 01:23 PM by blm
You know - the way every SERIOUSLY written article about the heavylifting going on by OTHERS manages to escape your notice and gets ignored by the fluff reporters, readers, and repeaters.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #103
109. I've met BLM in person
BLM is not angry or bitter, but impassioned about America being America again. Any anger is directed to things done in our name that were wrong and towards those who did them, covered for those who did or worked against those really working to right those wrongs.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #103
119. Says the one still not over the primaries.
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #101
110. Hillary works for our President and does what she is
asked to do. And i was referring to you.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #110
114. You based your conclusion on your opinion. I base mine on actual events and historical record.
I'm not 'bitter' towards HRC - I don't appreciate her role in protecting BushInc and supporting the war agenda and the secrecy and privilege of the powerful elite.

Shouldn't I call out closed government and its protectors in my duty as a citizen?

Shouldn't I call out those who would betray open government's protectors?

Shouldn't I call out those who stood with Bush's agenda?

Shouldn't I hold both Clintons accountable for their roles in protecting Bush's agenda throughout the years?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
10. What?
"Indeed, sexism has followed Clinton from the campaign trail to Foggy Bottom"

Just say anything and claim it as fact. What prompted this article? Seems the writer just decide Hillary wasn't getting enough coverage so why not write about sexism.

What about this article on Michelle Obama?

There is sexism in the media, they suck, but the constant whining as if Hillary is the only person to suffer the idiocy of the media is tired BS.

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. What is it with some of you?
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 10:31 AM by Beacool
You can't stand to see a positive article on Hillary, can you? Michelle is the First Lady, not the SOS, there is no competition between the two of them. Same advice as to the other nasty ones that came to spoil this thread, go away!!

Forgot to add, Hillary is not "whining" about sexism, as you so dismissively put it. The reporter wrote it, not her. Although it's nice to see the same meme as always from you. I guess sexism is only important if you like the person. Otherwise, any woman is fair game.

I had enough of you. I'm on my way to church, don't even bother responding.

;(
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Stupid articles.
Did every article about Madeline Albright and Condi Rice or articles about Michelle Obama emphasize sexism in the media? Anyone of these women is subjected to a lot of ridiculous sexist crap.

The longer they keep using this to define Hillary, the more it detracts from what she's actually doing.


"When it comes to Hillary Rodham Clinton, we're missing the forest for the pantsuits."

That describes 90% of the post here at DU about Hillary by her self-identified supporters.


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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Say hello to Doug Coe and the rest of Hillary's REAL Family for us, eh?
.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
53. My jaw dropped when I read about her involvement with The Family.
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. church?
Are your friends that celebrated Ted Kennedy's diagnosis there with you? :eyes:
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Baltoman991 Donating Member (869 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. Remember this post
the next time you decide to come on to a positive Obama thread and piss all over it like you've done in the past.

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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. The fewer articles I see on Michelle Obama, the better.

What politicians do and say is the public's business.

What family members of a prominent politician do and say is not the public's business.

Every laudatory article about Michelle opens the door for gossip and scandal about her and other members of her and other politicians families.

Politics should be political, not personal. And that, in my view, means paying as little attention as possible to the families of politicians. If Michelle Obama chooses to enter politics as a career, then will be the time to look at what she has said and achieved in the past; for now, though, I wish the press would respect her privacy.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
80. So, someone can't write an article about Hillary and mention sexism unless they mention
every other woman, even closely tied to politics and the sexism they experience as well?

If there's an article about Michelle Obama and mentions sexism, does the same apply? Would it then be okay to mention the sexist attacks against Hillary? Or is it never okay to have sexism and Hillary in an article ever?

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #80
81. Meet DU, when it comes to the Clintons it's just the reverse side of the Freepers.
Same vitriol, different forum.

After a while it's just tiresome and inane.

:eyes:
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #81
83. No kidding n/t
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
98. As soon as I opened this thread I hit ctrl+f and searched for your name
Sure enough, you were here! The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. Please seek help.
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
17. Thanks for the article, Bea! And as someone else said, "Hillary.Is.Awesome"!
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. Hi, Jesus.
Thanks for posting. I have chosen to ignore the coven of nasty people who crawl through this thread like bedbugs on flesh. They can just crawl back into the dark, I'm impervious to them.

:7



:hug:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
18. at 3am Bea, she's probably fast asleep with one of these;
:hi:
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. Hello, my friend.
Nice to see you and banky, as always. Yes, I hope that after her long days she has banky on one side and Bill on the other.

Hugs!!

:hug:
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
19. Interesting - This article is belittling her by making a big deal of her doing her job.
What did the writer think? That it is amazing she is a good secretary of state?

I am not getting it. Rehashing the stupid primary rhetoric does not do anything for her. Most women at this level of power encounter sexism. Nothing even remotely interesting in it.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. I don't mind positive HC articles, but I am tired of the sexism card being played all the time.
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 12:55 PM by wisteria
Show me one woman who has not been the victim of sexism. Other female SOS didn't complain about sexism. HC probably has had more advantages than most other women and unfortunately the criticisms that she is where she is because of her husband's status are not without merit. I would advise SOS Clinton to focus on proving herself in this position and work around the sexism.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. I agree, especially with the last sentence
The best thing Hillary Clinton can do to is to do serious foreign policy work, in a professional, diplomatic way. If she has major accomplishments, then people will speak of those instead of who her husband is.

I actually wonder if the reason for some of the negative press is that it is in response to overly positive fluffy articles claiming she is setting a new foreign policy (her CFR speech contained nothing Obama had not already said and didn't articulate any new ideas that I hadn't heard before.) or that she was the most successful Secretary of State ever. Now, I hope that she will be seen as that, because it would mean our foreign policy is working. It is premature at a point where she has not yet had a major success. Major successes for any Secretary of State are few and far between, but until she has one, articles like this are not convincing to anyone who was not already impressed.

But the detractors and the supporters need to give her time to do her job before saying she is marginalized or incredibly successful.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
60. Good points. n/t
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Becky72 Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. So sexism is ok because it happens often?
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 07:58 PM by Becky72
Great logic there.

You heard that, black people: Just work around racism and shut up!

</sarc>
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. No, sexism is always OK here for those who never liked Hillary.
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 09:48 PM by Beacool
The sad part is that some of these people are women. The article is not even about sexism, it's only one paragraph of it, but leave it to the same crowd to not bother to read the entire article and focus only on that point.

Very progressive around here........

:eyes:
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Captain_Nemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #36
49. Liberal sexism reared its head in this election. Sad state of affairs for progressives.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #49
82. Yes, it did.
They lifted entire articles from RW sites and it never occurred to them the irony that a group of so called "progressives" were as fiercely sexist and misogynist as the extreme right.

Since the party leaders didn't address this issue either, at least not until Hillary was safely out of the way, they can go to hell too. The DNC will never see another penny from me or my family. They can go ask someone else to fund raise. From now on, I only support those candidates who I personally know.

:(
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #33
57. Oh brother, first, we aren't talking about racism and second no one told her to shut up.
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 12:31 AM by wisteria
Can't she do her job and deal with the sexism to without having to use it as an excuse? Are we women expected to rally around her and demand that she be treated fairly as SOS? Who in fact is treating her unfairly? As SOS she will encounter cultures where women are not seen as equal. Do you and she expect these countries to change their way of life overnight just to accommodate Ms. Clinton?
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #57
62. The MEDIA is the one bringing it up, not Hillary.
A point that seems to have been lost on you and the others here who continue in your efforts to belittle her. Women are sometimes their own worst enemies.

How sad........

x(
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #62
69. The media who is SITTING DOWN with someone from her office to CRAFT these puff pieces.
If this was a real article it would be describing the events of the last 4 months ALOT differently and distributing credit where it belonged.

I'll give Hillary the credit she deserves - she is managing the State Dept. offices competently and staying out of the way of the few REAL pros who actually FOSTERED trust with other leaders instead of carrying Bush's water the last 8yrs.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #69
78. She's staying out of the way of the real pros??????
That's your assessment of the Secretary of State???????????

:wow:


Why, you condescending piece of $*%#!!!!!

x(
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #78
85. If you think Hillary smoothed things over wih North Korea, Syria and Pakistan then you're easily
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 10:47 AM by blm
snowed by lightweight fan fodder or deliberately avoiding the articles about the REAL behind the scenes negotiating being done by others.

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #85
88. The negotiating was done by quite a few people.
Your dismissive tone of our SOS is not only condescending it is also untrue.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #88
94. I know she is not considered an honest broker by Syria, NK, or Pakistan because she supported Bush's
agenda throughout his terms. You manage to avoid the facts behind the distrust of Clintons. Want me to post that CRAZY rant Bill made against Syria again in 2005, Bea? Do you need HRC's I'm-a-tough-hawk lines posted again?
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Becky72 Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #57
71. Why don't you want to talk about racism? Why the double standard?
You say that women have to deal with sexism and columnists shouldn't complain; but why don't you apply the exact same rule to racism? What is it about racism that merits more outrage than sexism?

Yes. We are talking about racism, because I brought it up. If you wish to ignore my question it's another story.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #71
84. Ohhh, that's a no-no for these hypocrites.
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 10:35 AM by Beacool
Any tiny whiff of racism was decried by all: the party, the media and every politician who would fight to be the first in line to thump their chests in sheer horror. On the other hand, attack any woman not on policy but on a purely personal manner, and it's A-OK as long as the left and the MSM don't like that particular woman. The Dems had Hillary and the Repugs had Palin.

x(

PS: Racism should always be confronted and decried, but so should sexism.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #84
122. My opinion is that for every media type that isn't fair to Clinton there are at least two who are.
You seem to suggest that all of the media is against this woman when that is not the case.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #122
123. ALL of them should be fair to Clinton and to every other subject of their articles.
There is simply no good argument to be made about tolerating sexism 1/3 of the time, even if your 1/3 is correct, any more than it is OK if racist, homophobic, etc., comments are made 1/3 of the time.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #123
125. In a perfect world. And, who is accepting it some of the time?
I just don't think Clinton should use it as an excuse for not accomplishing goals. Sexism exists true, but is Clinton really a victim of sexism as SOS? Can you give me some examples of where sexism has held her back? Oh, and don't use the past election or the incident with the young student as examples. I don't see any truth in the assumption that Clinton didn't make it out of the primaries as being due to sexism. And, as for that student, if what he said was sexist, I consider him a victim of his culture and I don't think he meant to purposely insult her.

Oh, and I don't need a lecture on sexism. I have experienced it first hand and have delt with it as a member of NOW.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #125
129. You've just contradicted yourself. On the one hand objecting to a 1/3 sexist media
corps (and I suspect the # is higher) is hoping for a "perfect world." On the other hand, you deny "accepting" sexism.

I call a spade a spade. If you don't like being "lectured" then don't behave in a sexist way and don't ignore sexism directed at others.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #71
87. Most of us will object to both blatant racism and sexism
I think it was absolutely beyond the pale for a comedian to speak of B*tch Beer. It was also not funny.

However, all criticism of Hillary Clinton in 2008 was labeled "sexist" by some - when most of it wasn't. To use an easier to see example, some criticism of Joe Lieberman is overtly anti-Semitic, but there are MANY, MANY reasons to criticize him. It is wrong when that criticism showed itself as anti-Semitism, just as it was wrong when criticism of Clinton came out as sexist. (NOTE: I am not equating Lieberman and Clinton) Some criticism of Obama, is expressed with racial overtones, but I think it is rarer, which is a pleasant surprise.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #87
91. I have no problem with a fair assessment of anyone's policies, regardless of gender.
But much criticism directed at Hillary, then and now, was and is sexist. Such as this B.S. overreaction to her response to the student in Congo by bringing up crap like she was having a "bad hair day" and she was feeling "fat". Who would have dared to make similar comments if the SOS had been male?

Please.........

;(
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #91
97. Actually, a "bad hair day"is possible for either sex
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 11:17 AM by karynnj
As to feeling or being fat, have you read many comments Al Gore gets? In fact, even the mainstream press fostered the idea that the fact that he gained significant weight and grew a beard was a sign that he was depressed or troubled or out of politics. (That that was more about weight, note that there were no similar comments on Kerry's recent beard.)

I think the question got way too much coverage, but that was because our ADD media found the clip more interesting that the purpose of the trip or other things in the thread you posted on what she did. The fact is Howard Dean got on the hour coverage of his red faced angry telling an obnoxious heckler to sit down, to the exclusion of any other question. Give me the name of ANY politician and I will give you an angry comment or a misstep that was given excessive coverage.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #71
121. Is it being suggested that SOS Clinton is a victim of racism?
We were speaking of sexism not racism-two entirely different subjects as far as I am concerned.
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Control-Z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #57
104. 'Are we women expected to rally around her and demand that she be treated fairly as SOS?'
Yes. As we should for any man or woman who is treated unfairly. It is what we do. It is up to us to stand up against sexism and racism.
I don't hear Hillary using sexism as an excuse. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exists, or that it should be tolerated or endorsed.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. I would put it the other way around.
Bill would probably have never been president without Hillary.

;)
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
28. Just another indication of how sure footed Obama is that he did select his chief rival for SOS
and together they have worked well in changing the climate in the world in this short time from what they inherited.
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. They do work well together!
---Pres Obama choosing her (because he knows how politically talented she is - not to mention professional)

---SOS Clinton using her husband and others to maximize her position for the best of the country.

They both show maturity and leadership.... something we had not seen in the past 8 years.
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Control-Z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #38
105. This is what should be
recognized and appreciated. It has been a great change after the 8 upside down years of Bush.

Some people just can't give up the fun in conflict.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
32. Nice piece from WaPo, but I still want Cillizza's & Milbank's heads on a plate.
Glad to see you out and about, Beacool. I miss you when you don't post. :hug:
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. I've become somewhat tired of this board.
And I won't wage into the the health care drama until there is an actual bill. Right now I can't even sort out what the hell is going on.

Thank you for your kind words.

:pals:
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. The board hasn't become tired of you.
Just the vultures.

And none of us know what's going on with healthcare... we just pray that we get a SOLID public option for ANYONE who wants it.

Pres Obama asked us to hold his feet to the fire, so we need to do it!



:pals:
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Thank you, Jesus.
Like a dear departed friend used to say: "You are a gentleman and a scholar."

:hug:
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Around here, holding his feet to the fire is interpreted to mean
bathing them with passionate kisses.
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akbacchus_BC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. Then leave, who asking you to stay?
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I sure hope she stays.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #45
63. E Che, ya que sos tan piola porque no te vas a vivir a Cuba?
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 01:20 AM by Beacool
Otra patetica.......

:7
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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
47. Late night posting on DU?


Please forgive my sense of humor.
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Captain_Nemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
48. Her work with women around the world shows her principals
The "woman issue" is the issue for us right now. Revolutionize women's lives and we transform the world. We need to do this in our country, too. We need gender parity in government.
As part of the 51% of the population, being underrepresented in government doesn't help us either.

Go Hillary.


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PM Martin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
50. k/r
Strange how there is only a single rec'd on this post.
Telling.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #50
59. Naaahhhh, it's par for the course.
It's not a board anymore that supports all Democrats, it's become a fan club for only one Democrat in particular. The rest of them get trashed regularly (ask the Kucinich crowd).

:eyes:
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
52. I love Hillary; she is one fantastic woman. She is by the way more liberal than
Obama. Bill and Barack are pretty alike, but Hillary is to the left of them in most areas.
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Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Her comment about annihilating Iran and voting yes on the IRW & Kyl-Lieberman qualify her as a hawk
She was the furthest right of all the dem. primary candidates ---
right where she intended to be confusing 2008 for 2004.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Not on foreign policy
Every time there has been a visible difference, Obama has been on the lsft, though likely less consistently than say Senator Kerry. Some examples are Iran, both before and after the election; Honduras, where Obama's initial comments were a major shift from the US accepting every RW coup - where the Clinton's have not taken that position; and on the middle east. I think Obama IS very different than both Clintons on foreign policy. Obama is closer to Kerry on how he views the world - though I wish he were even closer.

They are very similar and liberal on social issues. I really saw no economic issue where there was much difference. Hillary was a centrist Democrat on those issues - not a Ted Kennedy, Bernie Sanders or Sherrod Brown
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #52
56. How many "Liberals" are members of "The Family"?
:shrug:
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. Oh, the batty left, just as cringe inducing as the nuts on the right.
It must be the humidity, all the vermin are coming out of the woodwork tonight.

:scared:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #58
70. The left is cringeworthy to you but, The Family and Iraq war are NOT cringeworthy to you?
Left is vermin and The Family is what.....mink?

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #70
76. It's hilarious how some of you are grasping at straws to attack Hillary.
The meme:

1) She's doing nothing much, everybody else is doing her work. She's just a "ceremonial" SOS, not much more than a glorified First Lady.

2) She's a warmonger who is out to blow up at least half of the Middle East.

3) She belongs to some secret sect of very powerful people who have ruled DC for generations.

Ohhhh, that Hillary, what an evil vixen.

Remind me, am I at DU or Free Republic?

PATHETIC!!!!!!!

:crazy:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #76
86. Free Republic is FOR war and has NO PROBLEM with The Family and its agenda, just like HRC
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 10:29 AM by blm
so, while many at DU despise Hillary's support for Bush's war agenda and her fondness for The Family and its leader, Free Republic should be pleased with her - that they target her anyway just because she has a D after her name is just more of their utter hypocrisy. She's Lieberman in a dress and they LOVE Lieberman.

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
61. Hillary is one of the best things about this administration.
And that's coming from someone who has never been a huge Hillary fan.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. Well, definitely in one way.
As Secretary of State, she's got nothing to do with health care. Thank GOD for that! The last thing we need would be a voice in the cabinet who supports Romney style mandatory corporate insurance for all.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
65. She's Serving the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, following HIS PLAN.
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 01:31 AM by berni_mccoy
Don't get me wrong. She's great. But this is a total puff piece on her. She's doing a good job, but she serves at the pleasure of the President.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. I think that everyone is aware of it.
:shrug:
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Becky72 Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #65
72. The writer said the exact thing you just said; unfortunately, you didn't read past the title
The writer gave credit to Obama for picking her, and said Obama is making the ultimate "3am" decisions. He also said Obama's and Hillary's ideas are very similar.

But when people hate Hillary, they will attack her no matter what.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. You mean we're supposed to read articles *before* commenting on them?
Whoa, dude!
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. This is how it breaks down for some:
They first read the title, then they see who started the thread and then they either decide to praise or go on attack mode. They are actually quite entertaining if you think about it.

:D
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. It's all very Pavlovian. n/t
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
67. Wonderful article. Hillary is
doing such a good job at State. She and Obama work well together. She is by far the best pick in his administration. :hi:
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #67
77. Hi, Autumn!!
Nice seeing you, as always.

:pals:
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
68. Wherever she is,
she is undoubtedly being FABULOUS! Love her! :loveya:
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joeycola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
89. a big REC
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #89
93. Thanks!!!
:hi:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
106. With Hillary and Obama we can gain back our standing as a normal
country in this world, and probably already have.

I also liked her snapping at the reporter - those reporters ask such inane questions they deserve it, and most of the time the politicians are too polite to point out just how damn stupid they are. Along with Barney Frank, I say, go Hillary!
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. Yes, they make a good team.
BTW, it was a student not a reporter who asked her that question. At first they reported that he had meant Obama and not Bill, but French speaking reporters and the translator disputed that assertion.

;-)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
111. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. And remember whose cocaine it was?
Jeb and Chimpy were personally in charge of that operation.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #112
118. I don't think Poppy trusted that operation with the dunderheads - especially since aWol was a user.
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 06:03 PM by blm
The hearings on that are in National Security Archives - Gary Webb was able to piece alot of the CIA drugrunning story from those records and hearings transcripts.

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #112
124. I don't think they headed it or that they were involved - one person involved was Oliver North
Edited on Mon Aug-24-09 11:41 PM by karynnj
who lied about it to Senator Kerry under oath - that is what he was indicted for and what he was pardoned for after he was kept out of jail because the joint House/Senate investigation, which excluded Kerry whose small committee had broken the case open, gave him immunity. The fact is Kerry risked his career and possibly his life doggedly pursuing what was happening after he was clued in by Vietnam Vets, who had been recruited. These vets trusted John Kerry with information that could lead to their death. Their trust in Kerry was from their shared history and what they saw of him in 1971. Kerry, then a Senator for just 3 months, was both one of them and seen by them as having some power.

The CIA conceded that they had looked the other way allowing gun and drug running to support the Contras. They wanted to avoid another investigation. They verified that John Kerry was correct in his final report on the Contra drug running. The fact is there was drug running and our government allowed it to happen. Something that still amazes and horrifies me. I have a sister who teaches in a moderate size town with an inner city. It was heart breaking to hear of the difficulties of the crack babies in school. They were willing to destroy the social fabric for people already struggling to survive -- just to arm right wing thugs.





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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #124
127. Oliver North is scum and it is just beyond belief that Fox makes a hero out of him.
He should be in jail.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #111
113. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #111
115. Deleted sub-thread
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
116. But...but...PANTSUITS!
OVER HERE! LOOK AT THE PANTSUITS! AREN'T THESE MORE INTERESTING?!?!?!?!
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #116
117. Yeah, her clothes, hair, etc. are far more important than the performance of her job.
Then again, read the responses to this thread. At the mere mention of a Clinton the bashers and the just plain nutty folks come out in full force.

What's even more scary is that this is supposed to be a Democratic board!!!

It's just plain crazy, that's why we can never have unity as a party. One half hates the other half.

:scared:
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #117
126. I don't mean this offensively, but I sometimes wonder if she doesn't travel well,
she often looks tired and unkempt-at least in the beginning of her travels. You may not like it, but people do judge others on appearance first.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #126
130. Unkempt???
Travel 18 hrs. or more on a plane, while studying briefs for most of the way, and see how fresh you look when you get there.

She tries to book a hairstylist at the sight. Maybe the State Dept. should pay for a stylist to accompany her on her travels.

Did you read this Sunday's NY Times magazine? The whole issue is on women. I suggest you peruse it, it's quite an education. Hillary could shave her head as far as I'm concerned, just as long as she continues to bring the plight of women and girls to the forefront.



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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
120. Great job!
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girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #120
128. Whenever I think of Hillary and compare her to Palin
I am so grateful she is on our side! She makes me proud. She is doing a great job, and that's just what I expected of her.
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