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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:09 PM
Original message
For Those Who Rushed To Blame Obama regarding the Gates Issue
Now that you know Obama was right and Crowley falsified his report, how do you feel?

Does the fact that Crowley is the one who injected race into this change your perspective?

Do you feel misled by the media?

To be honest, based on the vocalization here, I was starting to think Obama was going to have to apologize (and he somewhat did). Now that it turns out Crowley has done wrong on this incident and the media failed to investigate the truth before making it appear as if Obama had done wrong, do you feel that you will be less trusting of what the MSM "reports" in the future?

Do you feel you may give Obama the benefit of the doubt before jumping to conclusions?

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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. What did Obama say about the cop falsifying his report. I thought that
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 01:17 PM by xultar
Obama said that the cop acted stupidly.

Which is true.

But that didn't have anything to do with the cop's report.

The cop falsified his report cuz he knew his ass was on the line because Gates had connections.

What did Obama say about the cop injecting race into the issue? I didn't hear that either.

I think you are trying to combine two things together like oil and water.

I don't see how these two issues go together.
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benddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I don't think
you read what the poster said. The 911 call and the tapes proved the cop was wrong.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. No I got that. What did Obama say about that? Honestly, I don't know..
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 01:22 PM by xultar
What did Obama say about the caller, not mentioning black people and the cop injecting race.

I don't remember hearing a statement where he discussed that. Seriously, I didn't hear what Obama said at the press conference or press briefing later in that week.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Re read my post, there is stuff in the body of the post as well not just the
first line.

Help me I'm trying to understand.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. I think you missed my point
I agree with everything you are saying.

I just want to know how people feel for jumping all over Obama without knowing everything that happened, only to find out the cop actually did wrong here and injected race into it.

I think people here react far to quickly and in a 'knee-jerk' fashion without looking deeper at what is going on or with blind trust for sources like the AP.

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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I don't think people disagree with what Obama said...the arguments are that
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 01:46 PM by xultar
maybe he shouldn't have said it,
or that he spoke too soon,
or maybe he should have chosen better words,
Not that he was wrong.

The fact that he was right...I don't think people disagree with. I mean think about it he was speaking without the facts and really a President shouldn't do that whether he was right or not isn't the issue.

That is why I didn't understand your post.

I don't think people thought Obama was wrong.

I think they may have thought that his choice of words, speaking too soon, or the fact that he spoke at all may impact things like Cop Union and Fire Union endorsements...which we will need in 2012.

I mean think about it. If Obama had waited till this week, he could have even mentioned that race wasn't even a part of the callers report to 911.

Personally, I think Obama should have waited. Met with Gates. Then made a statement after his staff did the research...then he could have called for a broader discussion on race and class issues not just based on Gates, but based on all the occurrences in the country. That would help with fixing this problem once and for all.

So, I don't think I missed your point. I was trying to see how your points fit together.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Ah, well, I guess I was seeing some strong anti-Obama statements during the reactionary period
that is what is driving my response. And I can see the disconnect my post presents now.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. Exactly...
Obama didn't have all the facts when he spoke, yet the OP somehow expects DUers to be better in that regard than the president.

And funny how people still don't get that Obama said both men overreacted. In his "teachable moment" comments, Obama admitted that less talk was in order... so what do DUers do? You guessed it!

This is getting really stupid... and frustrating. It's very scary to me that so few DUers get the whole picture. You do. Thanks for that!




ARGH!!!
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. "jumping all over Obama without knowing everything that happened"
Why should anyone here be any better than the president? Obama didn't know exactly what happened when he opened his big mouth. If we can't expect better judgement from our president, why in the hell would we ever think we should expect it from Joe DU?

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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. Amazing, isn't it?
DU is becoming the new idiocracy.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. IMO, Obama spoke too soon. I'm glad he turned out to be right but it might have gone differently.
And I'm pretty sure I'm a cheerleader.

I don't think it's unfair to say that the president didn't have all the facts when he said the police "acted stupidly".

The odds were that they had acted stupidly, but this might have turned out to be one of those cases in which they had probable cause to arrest.

I don't think President Obama had access to enough of the facts of the incident to be sure they had "acted stupidly".

I am, of course, pleased with the outcome.

NYC_SKP
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I agree. Though it is Boston area police and they even arrested Lawrence O'Donnell
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 01:20 PM by xultar
I think they like to show rich people who's boss.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. There are good cops/bad cops...me thinks Crowley is a Bully Cop
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. That's the problem with Boston area cops and it has been for a long ass time.
Boston, a working class city, where jobs on the FD and PD are handed down in families practically.
Seems to me they like to throw their weight around because there they feel some type of entitlement.

And if you mess with them, they'll show you who's boss.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Not all but many fall into this category...perhaps too much...They need a Bully Reduction Effort
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. I'm pretty sure you
are too. :) Maybe that's why they're all having a :beer: :party: Thursday evening at the White House.

..To try and straighten it out without the freaking "media"..there's a lot of fences that have been broken for a long time that need repair and walls built up that need portals. It could be a start anyway.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. Obama isn't rushing to judgement now either
even after the new information, he's not coming out and calling Crowley a racist or accusing him of anything.

In fact the beer meeting is still on.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Exactly, cops being stupid doesn't equal racist...though they can be both.
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 01:44 PM by xultar
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Excellent point.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. But inventing two black suspects is racist.
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 05:20 PM by EFerrari
Maybe the default for this guy's stupid is, too.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Well as a black woman I don't see it that way. The report was written after
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 06:15 PM by xultar
he was at the scene...when he was in CYA mode.

In my eyes, if he'd invented black suspects and no one was there then that would be racist. Like that woman that drowned her kids in the car...or that other guy who said black men shot his wife when it was really him.

So from my point of view he's still an asshole and an idiot.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. He not only invented a report about two black suspects,
he invented a white woman to tell it to him.

lol

But, he is an @sshole and I feel for the family that depends on him for their wellbeing.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. Even before these revelations, the President was right that the PD acted stupidly.
Now we see that it also acted illegally in a stupid manner.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
18. Don't bother. They're like cops - never admit any wrongdoing.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Who?
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Cop defenders.
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GivePeaceAchance Donating Member (950 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
21. For me never thought Obama was in the wrong just could of used more careful wording, so the right...
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 04:25 PM by GivePeaceAchance
couldn't make hay. But other than that he did nothing wrong at all.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
22. I thought he handled it perfectly.
the MSM tried, but couldn't really stir shit up for more than a day and a half.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I agree. He was brilliant. He took a clear and reasoned position,
he softened his language without retreating from that principled position and just waited while the inevitable dirt on Crowley surfaced.
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. As a black man in America, I can tell you, I was damn
glad he said what he said and when he said it. And I'm convinced he meant to say it.

Enough is enough. If I can't be secure against abuse in my own home, then I got nothing. It had to be said. We can't be having the cops think open season like that.

And I don't think it just reverberated among people in America, but all over the world. Enough of this shit. Fucking with somebody in their own house is just going to damn far.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. I was once arrested for crying in my livngroom. My ex, who was using
at the time and had just snatched my whole pay check, called the police and told them I'd been violent and possibly psychotic.

lol

He's a big white looking, cop looking guy. When they showed up, he takes them off into a corner, whispers to them and bingo, I'm in cuffs. He bet I wouldn't turn on him and I guess, he was right. And later, I found out that more than one study shows that 40% of the cops polled are involved in some form of violence against their spouse in the last year. So, if you dial 911, you have a 2 in 5 chance of getting an abuser responding to your call . . .

It took them longer to process me in than to let me go and dump the arrest but, I'm intimately familiar with cop home invasions that cost you and no one else.

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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
25. Obama was right: both parties overreated...
That's the only part that really matters in this whole fucked up, dumbass, overly discussed argument. Once you determine BOTH men had a "my penis is bigger than yours" fight, the whole thing looks stupid and it doesn't deserve this much dissection.

Jesus Christ on a cracker... we need to move the fuck on.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
30. The arrest was wrong. Crowley's not a racist. Obama's "stupidly" remark was "miscalibrated"
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 06:17 PM by Political Heretic
That's what I said in the beginning, its what has been borne out to be true so far. The President agrees with me on each and every point.

So, I'm feeling pretty good about the conclusions I make. :hi:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. The President has never said if he believes Crowley is a racist or not.
In fact, he brought up racial profiling, too, and he has never withdrawn that part of his comments.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Actually, he most certainly did.
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 08:27 PM by Political Heretic
He said and I quote, "Crowley is a good police officer and a fine man."

Now you can say "he didn't really mean that if you want" but then you're interpreting his words while I'm simply taking exactly what he said at face value.

Unless of course somehow you believe one can both be called a racist and a good police officer and fine man at the same time.

Crowley, by the way, is considered an expert on racial profiling and actually teaches other cops on avoiding racial profiling.

He's just an egotistical cop, not uncommon, who went on a power trip. Like I said, the arrest was wrong, that doesn't make Crowley a racist and Obama's words were poorly calibrated (i.e. it was a mistake to make the statement in the way, and at the time he did, which is not at all the same thing as saying he was wrong to make any statement about it at all.)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. I believe that had Obama wanted to retract his comments on racial profiling
Edited on Tue Jul-28-09 09:33 PM by EFerrari
he is a good enough speaker to do that. And of course, Obama is not going to weigh in directly on whether this racist asshole is a racist asshole.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. Obama never suggested that Crowley was profiling.
:shrug:

He did say that profiling is one of the reasons for the tension between the black community and the police, as a broader statement.

Look, Obama said he's a good cop and a fine man. You're saying "yeah but that's not what he meant!" If he though he was a racist he would have stayed silent or said something else. I take his words at face value that they reflect his opinion, rather than reading tea leaves and trying to read in what ever I want to read.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Obama brought up racial profiling. He's a good enough speaker to know
that he was making a point simply by bringing up the topic in the context of his remarks on the case.

And you know, he hasn't done anything that I admire as much. He made his point, he played it beautifully. Later, he did say some nice things about the officer in question but, his point was made. That's why the police union and why Cambridge freaked out. They know they have a problem and they know they were pegged for it on national teevee. :shrug:
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. your making asumptions
Obama never said he was a racists and the only inference from the "stupidly" remark is not racism. The fact is that arresting a man at his own home when he has done nothing wrong is stupid. This is actually what obama said and turned out to be true. Obama was speaking truth to power and i salute him for it.

Your application of race to these statements is an assumption on your part.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Um... you're replying to the wrong person.
I'm not assuming race at all.

The person responding to me however, is.
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cleveramerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
32. what was falsified/ wheres that story
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
36. K&R. Funny. Mika Brzezinski took the 911 call/report to show it wasn't racial on CROWLEY'S part.
She really is stupid.
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krawhitham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
40. no, he handled it wrong
either say the cops acted stupidly or say you do not know the facts surrounding the case


DON'T SAY BOTH
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Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. no he handled it correctly
Edited on Wed Jul-29-09 06:07 PM by Bodhi BloodWave
He stated his view might be biased since gates is a friend of his, he stated he did not know all the facts 'but' then he went down a list of the facts he thought he knew(i think only how gates entered the house was off there). And based on the list of facts he knew, the arrest of gates was a stupid move, not Crowley was stupid(even tho later reports points toward him being both stupid and a liar in regards to this situation atleast(I'll make no comment on his behavior outside this since i don't know)), nor that the police overall are stupid. The only stupid thing was the arrest.

The way Obama started it all shows he was giving his personal opinion on what he knew(even tho he has become president he is still entitled to personal opinions), and for those saying he shouldn't have said anything to the question, well that would have caused just as large a story as the news people would have focused on how he avoided any answer to it.
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