My absolute last thread ever on Gates and Crowley.. ever ever ever

[Peacetrain]

I may respond in someone else's thread, but I will never start a new one..

This is the rub for me.. Gates, Crowley.. Crowley being a profiling instructor, should have recognized what was going on.

Like a doctor is at greater liability than a layman when giving help at an accident.. and they are, because of their knowledge base, Crowley of all the police people should have understood the full implications of how this looked to a person of color.

Gates I am sure was madder than an old wet hornet, who would not be.

There was no reason to arrest him.

[kid a]

1. a good post to end on: rec (+1)

[cleveramerican]

2. two warnings ignored

your going to jail
even if your a bigshot friend of the president

[Peacetrain]

4. Like Crowley knew he was a bigshot friend of the president?

Do you have any idea how if that were true, it would get Crowley kicked off the force? Are you sure you want to make an implication like that?

[cleveramerican]

16. it didn't matter/ is the whole point

You May disagree
but I just think given the circustances,
if the cop asks you to calm down/ warns you twice,
you are under some obligation to comply.

[Cha]

5. Yeah, it's rather obvious you back the

the fuckups of crowley.

[cleveramerican]

19. What do you teach your kids if the Police come to the door?

Do you teach them to get angry and yell at the cop?
Of course you don't cause
that would be stupid.
You teach them to do the right thing.

[Cha]

20. The cop fucked up..I

don't care that you don't see it.

[Leo The Cleo]

23. You teach your kids to verify that it is a police officer

In the late 90's there were a string of rapes alongside highways by police officers and some people who were posing as police officers. There were also some rapes in low income black communities by police officers and people posing as police officers. So, you tell your kids to verify that it is an actual cop. And if the cops is as brazen as Crowley and won't initially give his badge number, then you don't let him in.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. I taught my kids to never automatically trust any cop

As my dad taught me.

[noiretextatique]

6. there was no need for "warnings"

the cop should have left after he verified it was gates' house.

[Jade Fox]

14. Warnings? Gates was breaking no laws....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x466719

[Cha]

3. We so

agree on this and it's a primo learning lesson for the whole country that hasn't ended yet. There's a :beer::party: to be had in the White House involving all three plus who knows who else?

Are you absolutely sure you won't want to weigh in on this via an OP?:party:

[Peacetrain]

9. On someone elses thread I will..

I guess I have said my piece on it five different ways. I think this will be a teaching event in the long run. It is a good thing, that all three can get together and hash this out. That makes me very hopeful.

[Cha]

11. Exactly, very hopeful..

It doesn't just leave at open wounds with this Prez..there's healing to be done.

[Leo The Cleo]

7. BINGO and then some

However, this attempt to blame Gates for his arrest is ridiculous. Gates committed no crime. Secondly, the officer abused authority to arrest Gates. Gates didn't attack him. Gates didn't lunge at him. Gates said what he had to say, which is not a crime. Republicans argue about government abuses of power. They say that universal health care would be socialism. The government would be infringing upon our rights. They call it an invasion. Yet, some DUers must agree with the republican sentiment if Government can come into a person's home and do this.

[Duke Newcombe]

8. Correct: Crowley was supposed to be the professional...

...in the room during the situation. Unless Professor Gates physically attacked him, or refused to cooperate, after positively ID'ing him, the next word out of the Sergeant's mouth should have been "goodbye".

Unfortunately, Prof. Gates, being angry, shot his mouth off...and Sgt. Crowley's "professional" switch was set to the "off" position, and he decided that the Profesor was guilty of "Contempt of Cop", and would teach him a lesson.

In addition to understanding racial profiling, police are also aware that people they're interracting with aren't always happy to see them, and learn "verbal judo" techniques to diffuse hostile situations. Regardless of the hostility that an individual displays, unless he puts the officer or public in danger, or is totally uncooperative, the onus is on the LEO to be professional, even when others are not.

Perhaps some training for the officer is in order here.

[noiretextatique]

10. crowley got pissed off and forgot all his training

and reverted back to a white man with power over a black man. it would have worked perfectly fine for crowley if gates wasn't who he is. that's another we need to remember about this incident.

[Leo The Cleo]

13. BINGO BINGO BINGO

If I were in Gates situation I would have been arrested without bail. In NYC I would have been put in the tombs with people who have actually committed crimes. And for what? For talking. For asking questions within my rights? Why wasn't Crowley forthcoming with his badge number through the door? A person has a right to that. This whole thing is a mess, but worse happens to people who do less than Gates.

[noiretextatique]

15. indeed...it happens every single day

and the saddest part of this is that too many people believe police have the right to arrest someone because they exercise their rights. or because they don't cower and defer. i know exactly how gates felt, and i would have been in jail too :hi: i have no obligation to defer to someone who is violating my rights, even if he wears a badge.

[Leo The Cleo]

17. This Is Why Police Hate Cameras, But Don't Care

It seems that every few months police officers get caught on film doing the most horrendous things. They get caught doing things that only "thugs" are supposed to do. And every few months they get off. Funny how we see them doing wrong every day. We see them run through lights. We see them in unflattering videos, yet and still we don't question their authority. Those who do are deemed "obstructionists." Those who do are "trouble makers." Funny how that works.

[noiretextatique]

18. stockholm syndrome

our expectations of government and its agents has been so lowered that some not only except thuggish behavior as the norm, but they also condone it. especially when it perceived as taming some hated "other." i hate the rw...they have done so much damage to the psyche of america.

[Leo The Cleo]

21. Culture Of Hate

Well, there has been a culture of hate in this country for a long time. It's in the laws. Hatred for Women's choice is in the penal code. Abortion is in the penal code. That means it is a question of criminal behavior versus being a question of health code. Housing codes and regulations expressly had race written in them until recent history. The bogus "sodomy laws" that talk about anal sex and such are government regulations that abridge a person's right to act consensually with another adult in their own home. Hate is in the DNA of the law and is expressed in the actions of the government and the people.

[noiretextatique]

25. i totally agree

that's why the rw is so dangerous, including the blue dogs. i have spent my entire life fighting these people and their hate-filled ideology.

[Leo The Cleo]

27. Not Just The Blue Dogs

There are people here who wouldn't consider themselves "blue dogs" that carry the same sentiments. The problem is that when you want hate there is not room for peace. The system has been devised to promote difference, so even those who claim empathy still fall into the normative behaviors and mindsets.

[Jade Fox]

12. Crowley should have also known the law......

as laid out clearly in this article.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x466719

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. You can't be arrested for being disruptive in your own house

That's why the cop called Gates outside. Someone posted that last night and I got angry again. LOL

Dave Lindorff wrote about the best piece I have read on this story:
http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/?q=node/343

[uponit7771]

26. Yeap, I found that out here lately and I got pissed again too....