Obama is going to make GOP look like morons if they don't vote for health care

[Cant trust em]

He said that over 160 republican amendments have been added to one of the health care proposals. He said something like "They need to vote for this if they are serious about bipartisanship." If they don't vote for this proposal, they're going to look like even more of the obstructionist party. The administration is playing this very well.

[hobbit709]

1. They already look like morons

[aquamarina]

2. When has looking like a "moran" ever stopped the GOP

from flapper their gums?

[BlooInBloo]

3. Subject line typo: I think you mean "when".

[Cant trust em]

5. +1

The GOP misses the boat yet again.

[LiberalAndProud]

4. If they vote against the proposal, can we strip every

Republican amendment? -- every single one. And then pass it without them?

[Cant trust em]

I wish we could do that retroactively

I think that going forward this will give us the opportunity to exclude them even more.

[dflprincess]

9. If they're not going to vote for it anyway,

all their amendments should be voted down before final passage.

[babylonsister]

6. Apparently they don't care...

I'm glad Rahm and Axelrod called off efforts at bipartisanship...

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/15/axelrod-rahm-health-care/

snip//

The Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee has just passed health care reform legislation that contains a public plan option. Despite the fact that 160 Republican amendments were accepted, the bill still did not garner any Republican votes.

[madmom]

13. Then the 160 republican amendments should be removed.

[Political Heretic]

7. GOP is not our problem.

Democrats not playing ball, are.

Reported at DU today that Obama's campaign wing is launching TV ads attack obstructionist Republicans AND Democrats who are stalling or attempted to water down health care reform.

I think that is excellent.

By the way, for all the idiots who tried to argue that Obama "did everything he could do" on EFCA by staying dead silent, THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE WHEN YOU DO ALL YOU CAN DO to fight for an issue.

[Cant trust em]

8. In terms of doing everyting he could do, I think the better question is

How often do you play that card? I guess that speaks to the issue of political capital. How and when do you use it?

[Political Heretic]

10. The whole "frame" of political capital is establishment bullshit.

It's time we throw out the old "wisdom" and re-frame the theory of how presidents lead. The idea of having some fixed, limited political capital that you must "spend" wisely is establishment bullshit designed to stall or derail substantive change of an entrenched system that benefits a bunch of insider cronies.

You can earn a replenishing, endless supply of "political capital" by simply having the guts to lead and fight in a way that ordinary Americans recognize as substantive rather than transparent bullshit. Our greatest presidents weren't carefully, timidy reserving "political capital" as though they only had enough for one issue. They were leading on issues and earning the support of the people they needed. FDR, Kennedy, LBJ, even presidents we didn't like such as Ronald Regan.

Ronald Regan's popularity as President was never as high as Obama's has already been, but he pushed through massive social transformation (all bad) and you never heard his people whining and wringing their hands about "limited political capital"

The language of "Political Capital" simply means "I'm a politician who places my own political career above fighting for the best policy for America."

I'm sick of people accepting this shit rather than demanding we change it.

[Cant trust em]

11. Governing is all about prioritizing.

Which issues do you dedicate all of your capacity and call in favors to achieve.

[Political Heretic]

12. That's what THEY say.

It's not actually true, its what's said as political cover for maintaining the status quo.

I explained already how and why its not true, and how it could be framed differently. So-called political "capital" is EARNED throughout a presidency, not just spent. And part of the way its earned is by showing the American people that you're serious about pursuing their interests - fighting hard.

You get an American president that puts delivering full-scale on promises to the American people without playing politics with the issue, and I'll show you a president that gets reelected against the conventional wisdom of Washington insiders who will cry that he (or she) has spent "too much political capital."

[PretzelWarrior]

15. no it isn't. Health care reform is arguably a much bigger nut to crack

and he would have been foolish at this point to focus his efforts and use the bully pulpit to talk about EFCA.

[Political Heretic]

16. Hey! You didn't leave!

Your goodbye thread was just at the top of the board a min ago...

Anyway, read the other post I made in response to the above poster. I'm saying that the frame of "political capital" is frequently used as excuse making to reinforce establishment politics. Particular because it is frequently used to imply that political capital is a fixed commodity.

It is not.

Political "capital" if we must accept that term, is earned throughout an administration. It's earned more effectively, in my opinion, the more presidents stand on principle and are seen to be candidly supporting the interests of American people without gamesmanship, than it is when politicians try to play sophisticated "insider baseball" with the issues.

So the excuse that "he can't engage on x issue because of political capital" sort of implies that political captial is a fixed commodity when it isn't.

[Cant trust em]

21. I think you're getting hung up on the term "political capital"

Call it whatever you want.

But I think that it's important to prioritize issues and asy that before I get out of office, I want to pass X, Y, and Z as my main priorities. In order to do that I am going to have to open up the playbook of focusing congressional attention, controlling media narrative, developing public opinion, etc. around those issues. The issue might determine to what extent those tactics might be used. It is difficult to maintain ultimate use of those tactics for all issues at the same time.

"Political capital" isn't fixed, but it does depend on winning the issues that you choose to champion. The more you win, the more you have.

[SidneyCarton]

20. fair enough.

I am deeply disappointed about EFCA, If this gets passed (health care) the issue needs to be revisited.

[Sebastian Doyle]

14. The Repukes know they look like morans, and they don't care

The real problem is the fake "democrats" who make US look like morans, because we allow them to remain in office, despite the fact that they refuse to do their fucking jobs.

[zbdent]

17. how? the "media" will keep him from appearing good ...

look at how Faux made it so that they can claim damn near anything about Obama's pitch at the all-star game ...

[GeorgeGist]

18. Stop playing games ...

The GOP are morons.

[bobbolink]

19. The GOP???? Have you forgotten that our major problem is the DEMS who won't vote for it????

The GOP are no longer in power.

It's time to stop blaming them for everything.

[vaberella]

22. I have to fully agree with you. n/t

[bobbolink]

24. Thank you for some rationality. NOW.. if we would STOP focusing on RW and grow up,

we could put our heads together and come up with ways to reclaim our party, and THEN, maybe the NATION.

What a concept.

So... here's a thought... how 'bout looking at these lists of Blue Dogs, and specifically the ones who have come out against even the minimum...a public option.

THEN, research how much each one has received from the "Health industry"

THEN, raise the $$$ to put up billboards, buy ads, etc., in their districts.

FOCUS ON OUR OWN PROBLEMS, AND BUILD AWARENESS!

Really, this continually bashing the GOP when we have just as much idiocy in our own damned party is silly to the max.

Or, it would be silly if it wasn't so tragic how many people are suffering and dying because of it.

:cry:

[vaberella]

26. Agreed. The Dem party has work to do to it self.

And many of them are fucking us up.

[bobbolink]

28. No responses to my idea?

[vaberella]

40. I thought your idea was brilliant.

I've been stating the same on this board in regards to health care. People want to whine and complain more than getting active and when it comes to republicans they like having the enemy and making the enemy suffer. So retribution is more important than fixing our own house. Don't get me wrong, I realize they are a problem and there's definitely plenty of warranted resentment. But we need to get our people organized and working for us to get our shit done. I'm seeing way to many Dems turning their backs on what's right for the American people either for ideologies sake or money's sake. It's not the mark of a true representative of the people. Your statements are on point and I fully support them.

[Cant trust em]

23. They're not the ones who are going to gripe about bipartisanship

and being excluded from the process, which I find to be personally amusing.

[vaberella]

25. But they will fuck us over and not even get us far enough ahead to pass a health care at all.

this is why they are so fundamental important. Without the Repubs we could sill pass. But we have plenty of Dems who will fuck us and deny he American people real significant change. This is why they are so fundamental. Don't apologize for these Dems. They to me are far worse and evil bastards than any REpubs. For one main reason. I know who and what the Repubs are and definitely they are hell bent to fuck the President. But when I see Dems who claim to be so self-righteous doing the same thing as a Repub----they can kiss my ass.

[Cant trust em]

31. I agree, but my OP was specifically talking about a line in the president's speech from this morning

about the GOP and their whines about bipartisanship.

[bobbolink]

27. So you think it's fine for Dems to fight against health care...

Gotcha.

[Cant trust em]

29. Your attempt to put words into my mouth is charming.

Bless your heart.

[bobbolink]

30. Thank you. Glad you like it. NOw, get it that the GOP isn't the only ones we have problems with.

[Cant trust em]

32. I never said that they weren't.

But I'm referencing something specifc and you're talking about the rest of the issue.

You need to lighten up.

[bobbolink]

34. Gotta love authoritarians who see it as their job to tell others what to do and how to BE.

[Cant trust em]

36. I like to call things as they are. nt

[bobbolink]

37. So do I. Authoritarian and self-righteous.

[Cant trust em]

38. In this case I will happy accept that label.

I'll never understand why some people think the way they do around here. I don't know why having stating one opinion necessitates a whole list of others. Why people around here instantly game up for a fight is beyond me.

[bobbolink]

39. Yup, you're right. I don't understand either. I don't get why some are so determined

to judge and call names.

We had 8 years of that in power.

Why do we continue it?

I guess some here just didn't get enough of it, and want to keep pressing it on others.

So, enjoy your label.

[Cant trust em]

41. With your excessive punctuation, putting words into my mouth

and basically aggressive tone, I'm not sure what else you expect. It's not like you entered the conversation interested in in what I had to say. You chose to jump to assumptions, make a claim and leave it at that. That being the case, I decided to call you out on it. The days where I let someone talk shit to me and put up with it are long over.

Moreover, I think it's ironic that to show me the error of my ways in labeling you, you chose to label me.

[MarjorieG]

33. The bi business defined as working together, contributing amendments, so Dems look cooperative.

Just hope we don't add bad amendments just for the political cover.

[ProudDad]

35. The Dems will look like morans if THEY

vote for any of those half-measures they're cooking up to shovel more subsidies to the health insurance mafia, GE and other equipment manufacturers and the drug companies...

:evilfrown:

It's the goddam Dems who blocked any discussion of the only plan in Congress that would actually provide Universal CARE at a lower price...HR.676/S.703

[mp9200]

42. Great

Well done Obama.