This is why Democrats lose. THIS IS WHY DEMOCRATS LOSE! Don't you GET IT???!!!!!!

[PretzelWarrior]

As I read through the myriad of posts here in the past few days I am struck by how common the sense really is here and overall in the country. It seems most of America inclusive of this brigade of Democratic Undergrounders has the attention span and pain threshold of a gnat.

We are in the very early stages of fighting for health care reform. We are already aware what type of opposition will be lined up against this based on the Clinton plan, but already yellow bellied cowards in the Senate, and Democratic constituents around the land are turning on President Obama. Even while plans are still being discussed, people are willing to proceed to judgement. Why ally against Obama along with GOP corporate whores and their Democrat-lite brethren? Why do the bidding of the corporate media who is in the same insular business and relationship with drug companies and insurance companies?

Learn the lesson from Iranian movement. You've got to stand in the face of opposition and DEFY THEM!!!! Not turn on your actually best hope for change.

[RagAss]

1. Amen.

[babylonsister]

2. Yes, some of us are our own worst enemies. Lots of them here.

We might even be providing talking points.

[AtomicKitten]

3. Change doesn't come by magic wand but by one foot in front of the other.

inch by inch ---> perseverance

[PretzelWarrior]

6. I agree. Each block by block skirmish to get our way and GET OBAMA'S WAY will be tough

There is no doubt in my mind he wants single payer but knows that is politically untenable. Sorry folks. But it is. Having said that, I think he would rather it die than NOT have a public option. I believe we will see a public option hammered out. It HAS TO HAPPEN. Otherwise this is a bullshit exercise. It won't save us a dime and won't do anything about restructuring the huge costs in the federal budget or do much to insure those who need to be insured.

Just keep writing to your congressmen and women. Keep talking to your friends. THE FUCKING POLLS SHOW EVERYTHING. Americans want public option so hold your greedy congress' feet to the fire. PROVE to them siding with the insurance companies will bounce them out faster than they can vote "Aye" on some bullshit bill.

[AtomicKitten]

10. 72% of Americans agree.

I too am convinced Obama won't settle for less.

[niceypoo]

97. Unless he insists...

...that it be 'bi-partisan' which means the GOP helps write it, turning it into a toothless 'compromise bill,' before voting against it.

[niceypoo]

96. But, but...

"We don't have the votes"

Democratic mantra for, "I'm a chickenshit and do what the republicans tell me to do"

[countingbluecars]

4. I agree. n/t

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. YES!

K&R

[Buzz Clik]

7. Incremental change. Wanting everything right now won't make it happen.

[ThirdWorldJohn]

8. Baucus is doing the bidding for his corporate whores. So what should we do?

I have called his office 3 times. I have called Dodd once and Kennedy twice. I have not called the WH because I have not seen any evidence that Obama has done anything for the health Care project except use it to win an election. So what more should I do.

Call Feinstein? OK I will tomorrow. Then what? Lobbyists seem to be more important to these thieves than I am. A Kennedy aide told me that the Insurance whores were needed because they have all the medical records. I think he was lying. So what should we do. Obama seems to act like it is not his promise to keep. Can you supply any evidence that he has worked to get UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE passed since January 20, 2009?

[kjackson227]

22. Obama has stated that he is unable to start from scratch for...

a universal healthcare option and/or single-payer. The insurance companies are already in the game unfortunately, so to completely exclude them and strong-arm them is almost impossible (especially when we have politicians who are bought and paid for by them). The next best thing is the public option which could possibly lead to universal or single-payer in the FUTURE (sort of like a crawl before you walk sort of thing). Really and truly, I doubt that we'll ever get universal or single-payer, but at least we'll have the next best thing. To do absolutely NOTHING is definitely NOT AN OPTION.

[sisters6]

30. We do not even have a true public option--only a pretend on.

[patrice]

9. Everyone must ask himherself what his/her honest priorities are and how to implement them.

If self-aggrandizing power play and acting out is dressed up in pseudo-causes be honest with yourself about that so others can adapt functionally to ego-inflation or avoid it all together.

[PretzelWarrior]

11. could you help me? I'm curious what you mean by that

what would be an example of "self-aggrandizing power play and acting out dressed up in psuedo-cases"

[patrice]

21. It's not uncommon for people who can get away with it to make a big deal

out of some aspect of a shared project that doesn't materially affect the purpose of the project, say, becoming difficult over a color used in a brochure, or a type-face or something like that.

Or around here it could be insulting people over your differences with them on Health Care reform, despite the fact that nothing will be decided here and the relevant place to put pressure would be on representatives and senators. What PURPOSE do insults and ridicule serve?

I've been around issues activists for a long time, for some it's more about them than it is about the issue; that's not an uncommon human trait. And, of course, bieng human, that's somewhat true of me too, depending upon the issue and the situation, though I usually choose to act out differently than some of the more unpleasant exchanges you see around here.

[PretzelWarrior]

43. ahhh...got it. I do agree with your assessment.

there are definitely some people who, for whatever reason, are so idealogically pure on an issue they would fight and scream even if they are granted 99% of what they wanted.

[patrice]

55. Basic biological feedback loop, similar to others labled "The Holy Spirit"

"God's will" or any other self-reinforcing addiction to certain biochemical soups.

Not that there isn't/aren't some apprehensions that are in actual fact more valid on the average than other understandings, just talking about how "truths" are recognized and shared socially here.

Insults and ridicule just seem like such a clear hallmark of some other order of priorities to me, something more self - centered.

[tblue37]

69. i.e., the perfect is the enemy of the good. nt

[patrice]

72. Yep. And folks don't want to commit to the Long Haul.

Incrementalism is too complex and tricky, requires too much of a commitment, too much trust.

[Better Believe It]

12. I agree. The so-called "moderate centrist" Democrats are in alliance with the GOP and

must be fought against.

Let's hope Democratic Senators who support a strong public option begin fighting against the bi-partisan anti-people coalition soon.

What Democratic leaders and progressive/liberal organizations do you think can and should organize mass demonstrations in support of universal healthcare with a public option to emulate the Iranian protests?

[PretzelWarrior]

44. I think nurse's associations should rally

I think workers who don't currently have much if any insurance offered by employers should rally. I think students on campuses should rally. We need SHEER NUMBERS scaring the bejeezus out of the starched suits in Washington and elsewhere such that they realize this isn't negotiable.

It's our money. Let's dictate that it be spent correctly on REAL health care...not some newly dreamed up givewaway to insurance companies, etc.

[avaistheone1]

52. I think we need the nurses and/or doctors to start coalition building and getting us organized.

[patrice]

57. This means we MUST move to Campaign Finance and Voting Reform, otherwise

we will always and forever be returning to the same problem on EVERY issue.

One of the other good things about addressing Campaign Finance and Voting Reform is that these matters cross any and ALL party-lines. It's TRULY a People's issue.

[LuckyLib]

80. Ding! ding! ding! We have a winner here! Until and unless we get congress away from corporate

influence-peddling every reform will meet the same obstacle: the congressperson who just can't "Say no!"

[dpbrown]

13. Universal, Single-Payer Healthcare for all - it's cheaper, better, and it covers EVERYONE!

It's time for the gutless Democrats to stand up to the status quo and realize that we elected change, not more of the same.

[kjackson227]

14. Great post. Now if we could send this to every spineless ...

Dem in the senate, maybe we can get what we deserve. It's ashame that we don't have the passion/strength/courage to fight for our cause like the Iranian people have demonstrated. If we don't get the healthcare reform (public option) because of the radical left-wing of our party, right-wing neocon lunatics, and the bought-and-paid for senate, then we need to take to streets also. We cannot let a few ruin it for all of us. In five or so years if some kind of reform/public option hasn't taken place, we're all going to be in a soup line.

[Beacool]

15. OK, let's start with our fearless Leader.

Let him fight this battle for us, that's why he was voted into office. Although I can almost predict what we'll end up with, a water-down version of a healthcare package who will try to please all sides and will end up pleasing none.

[Baltoman991]

27. What is it

with the freeper/right wing bullshit around here? "Fearless Leader"? I can read that shit on freeperville all day long or just listen to Fox News to get that kind of talk.

Again, why don't you address your anger where it belongs and thats to the panty wetting fools sitting in Congress right now holding hands with the Republicans on this one?

Yeah, he's the President. No, he isn't a King or a God.

[Beacool]

29. Because I think that he'll accept whatever Congress comes up

without putting much of a fight. And what Congress will eventually come up with won't be that great. They all pull for their own self interests, depending which state they are from. Got to please the special interests in their states or they might not get reelected. Very few have the guts to stand up for what's really in the best interest of ALL of us, not just the few. Sorry if I sound cynical, but that's how I feel about them.

[Baltoman991]

33. Cynical!!!

Another reason our side loses. We want it all our way or we'll take our toys and go home.

Just a general "we" by the way.

Look, I don't think he'll take whatever Congress gives him. Not on healthcare anyway.

And besides, that doesn't answer my post. Why lay it all on him? If Congress gives him a shit bill he'll send it back. It's up to us to make sure Congress doesn't send him a shit bill.

People here are acting like Obama has done nothing since taking office. Why? When good things happen they're ignored......when things like this happen and it's Congress fucking things up then all of a sudden it's all Obamas fault.

Well bullshit. Again, he's not a King and he's not God. Congress sends him the bills, good or bad. IMO he won't take a healthcare bill thats bullshit. He'll send it back in a heartbeat.

If I'm wrong then I'll come back here and say I was wrong. But I won't beat the man up and ignore all the good he's done so far.

[AtomicKitten]

61. Beacool's "side" did lose, ergo the nonstop ankle-biting.

[Soylent Brice]

70. ZING

[SunsetDreams]

56. I stopped reading at the "fearless leader" part

[Beacool]

59. I just don't think that he's gutsy enough to fight all the special interests

that will come out of the woodwork to fight a healthcare bill that would really benefit everybody: Single payer.

[pansypoo53219]

16. PUBLIC FINANCED CAMPAIGNS.

FREE MEDIA. LIMITS. FUCK THE SUPREME COURT ON THIS.


money is NOT FREE SPEECH!

[avaistheone1]

51. Corporations are not persons.

We need to get that turned around in our laws too.

[midnight]

17. That's right. Never, never give up.

[Bjorn Against]

18. Stand up and defy all those who are pushing corporate run health care including Obama

Obama has made it clear that he is not pushing for single payer, I am. Why should I get behind Obama on this issue when he does not share my position? I find it ironic that you compare this to the Iran situation and tell us to "DEFY THEM!!!!" in the same breath that you suggest that we get behind Obama. In Iran they are rising up in opposition to the President not getting behind him.

I will get behind Obama's position when he gets behind mine, but I am going to keep pushing for single payer and I am not going to change my position just because Obama does not share it.

[Baltoman991]

34. So

we have another "my way or no way at all" Democrat who will just slam away at Obama because he's not kissing their ass.

Not once during his campaign did he say he'd push for single payer. But hey, you'll be much happier in 2012 when a Republican wins the White House. Hell, I'm sure you'll get everything you want then right?

[Bjorn Against]

36. I stand for my own positions not for Obama's

Just because he didn't take the position I wanted him to take during the campaign doesn't mean I shouldn't push him to take that position now.]

It is not a "my way or the highway" position to keep the pressure on from the left, I know I won't get everything that I want but that does not mean I should not advocate for what I want. People like you seem to want to demand that we should never advocate for our own positions, but instead move our positions to whatever a certain politicians positions are. That is not how you accomplish your goals, if we want to accomplish our goals we need to keep fighting for what we believe in not what someone else wants us to believe in. The real "my way or the highway" people are the people that demand we stop fighting and instead get behind the positions of their favorite politician.

[PretzelWarrior]

74. that's fine. I do get what you're saying. but if your "weapon" to advocate is threat

to say you will abandon him because he supposedly abandoned you is the height of short term and destructive thinking. Not directly talking to you....more to the plural YOU. We can fight and scratch and claw for the ideal of an issue like, let's say, single payer. But if they hammer out a compromise that is appreciably better for many individuals needing health care, is less expensive, etc. I would consider that a significant win. To me it is almost non negotiable that there has to be a public option specifically for the reasons I mentioned about cost/benefit. If we don't have enough benefit for this, it is a joke. SO...yes, we keep fighting. But you know single payer and public option and possibly even the idea of massive health care reform wouldn't even be on the table if McCain or another Republican were in office.

[Bjorn Against]

83. If there is a step in the right direction I will cheer the step in the right direction.

What I will not do however is advocate for anything less than single payer, a cheer is a one time thing to acknowledge that progress was made and then I go right back to asking why we don't have more than a step.

And don't tell me about McCain, he lost and is now pretty much irrelevant. I don't work for candidates I work on issues, it is not my job to get candidates elected it is my job to push them to earn our votes.

[PretzelWarrior]

46. then you are doomed to failure

[Bjorn Against]

54. No I am doomed to failure if I give up on my position just because you want me to

[andym]

19. Keep calling, remember that the key Senators are getting calls to oppose reform

Keep calling, remember that the key Senators are getting calls to oppose reform. Some/most(?) from people paid by lobbyists to give the impression that the people who care don't want reform! In places their calls are outpacing the pro-reform calls. I believe I read an article indicating that NC was one such place. But likely this is ubiquitous in key states.

Don't be naive. How do lobbyists accomplish their goals? One way is be direct contact with the representative, the other is follow this up having lots of "constituents" hammer home their message. So far they are winning and it is all our faults.

[bertman]

31. Great point, andym. The first step in standing in the face of opposition is making YOUR

position known to your Reps and Senators and to the White House.

WE WHO SUPPORT THE PUBLIC OPTION MUST CALL, CALL AND CALL AGAIN.

[PretzelWarrior]

47. that's depressing but I believe it. it sounds like something they would do.

not sure how they get people to call for them...maybe tied into community groups or something.

[democracy1st]

20. these sorry asses not even fighting!

[Stinky The Clown]

23. I've seen no particular evidence that Obama isn't on the same side of the fight "they" are.

He has been extraordinarily adept at saying lots of words and conveying nothing more than vague notions of what his position might be .... assuming he has one.

[truedelphi]

94. Which is why I usually call him

President Lip Service, as he spouts off what we want or need to hear, and then fails to help bring it about.

[mzmolly]

24. "We are in the very early stages of fighting for health care reform."

This is true... taking deep breaths.

Thanks for the perspective PW.

[AllentownJake]

25. What no lets kick N.Korea's ass thread today?

Sorry not taking advice from you on how to be a democrat.

[PretzelWarrior]

45. yeah. I've read plenty of your pablum. what? not taking a break yet?

I thought you were too burnt out to deal with the likes of me.

[AllentownJake]

53. Well there is DU

Taking a break from doing things in the real world.

[grantcart]

26. Rather a damning insult to gnats. I am sure they would resent it if they lived long enough.

[HopeOverFear]

28. Sorry, but our work ended on election night. We no longer have to do anything

but sit back and bitch about what Obama is or isn't doing.

(oh and btw, its my way or the highway on healthcare reform. Either Obama supports single payer or I'll work against him so that we end up having no reform at all).

[PretzelWarrior]

48. yup. you nailed the attitudes pretty well. the ones I love to hate are....

"They're all a bunch of lying crooks anyway. Doesn't matter which one you vote in. I don't even know why I vote."

Well, hey mister....how about getting off your butt politicallly more than every 2 years?!?! It takes more than pulling the lever for Mr. Whoever. You gotta organize. Write letters. Do marches. Get people to testify in Washington.

[redqueen]

68. "Either Obama supports single payer or I'll work against him ... we end up having no reform at all."

That's the real kicker.

What the fucking fuck is that about?

Just proves Voltaire was right... the perfect is the enemy of the good.

[Mira]

32. Yes and I will kick and Recommend this next

[Peacetrain]

35. I could not agree more.. Last year, everyone was in agreement it would be a hard slog

that we had so much to do it would take years.. and bingo,not a week, heck not even before his inauguration, we had people giving up already.

The term is summer soldier

[PretzelWarrior]

49. agreed. well said.

[HughMoran]

37. Why do gnats fly dirctly into my eyeball?

That's what I want to know.

I'm hardly worried about Obama's ability to get healthcare done - as you said - there's still plenty of time to change people's minds - their minds can be changed with a little education.

[Jennicut]

38. Could not have said it any better myself, PretzelWarrior.

We need to be in for the long fight.

[Autumn]

39. We need a leader out there

putting out the message,

[TomCADem]

40. Wednesday - ABC - Obama Hosts Town Hall On Healthcare

He has also been touring and holding various townhalls on healthcare. The problem is the darn first amendment, and the reluctance of the media to cover progressive viewpoints. The ABC townhall merely provides a platform for people to ask President Obama questions, but I would expect a few GOP plants.

[PretzelWarrior]

50. he wants a leader. Oh...but I thought he's putting himself out there too much?!

Bunch of STUPID FUCKING WHINERS in this country. They want a visible leader, but people are concerned Obama is overexposing himself.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

67. I actually HOPE that there a few GOP "plants"

I know President Obama can handle them and will, hopefully, even discredit some of their idiotic talking points- and he'll do it in his usual calm, thoughtful, and intelligent manner. I say, bring 'em on!!! (yeah, I know what happened to the last guy who said that but still..........)

[emsimon33]

41. Health Care is when we will take to the streets

Washington misjudges the anger and frustration. 2010 elections will be decided on this issue. Those who side with the insurance whores will find that rode the wrong horse into town.

[angee_is_mad]

42. Amen Warrior

K&R

[Political Heretic]

58. You're post is more exemplary of why and how we lose, in point of fact.

Yes, we have to stand in the face of opposition and defy them. But the sooner you get the fact that the opposition crosses party lines, the better able you will be to oppose the right things.

People aren't allying against Obama. Some people are allying against a policy agenda that is anti-working class families and pro-corporate mega-billionaire privileged interests.

As soon as Democrats in congress and this administration start standing with me and my family, I will happily stand with them. But as long as they insist in continuing to suck off big business and capitulate to every whim of the business lobby because they care more about winning an election and keeping their luxurious lifestyles than they do about fighting for working families, then I'll continue to suggest that we drag them out of their offices kicking and screaming and run them out of town on a rail.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

60. "Learn the lesson from Iranian movement. You've got to stand in the face of opposition and DEFY THEM

Your own words.

Uh, this is precisely what Obama and the Democrats are NOT doing, which is why those of us who are complaining are upset.

[redqueen]

62. But what if the M$M spin feels good to repeat?

Do we really need to concern ourselves with silly things like whether or not it is factual, or even makes sense?

[Joanne98]

63. That's why we never should have taken single payer off the table.

We're in the early stages of the fight so WHY did they take our best chip off the table before we even started?

[redqueen]

64. Ask Senator Bernie Sanders.

Maybe he can explain it.

[dflprincess]

65. "We are in the very early stages of fighting for health care reform"

There have been people working on this since Truman was president - Kennedy has pushing it for nearly 40 years.

The out of control costs have just finally brought the issue to the front of the line. But even with nearly 50 million uninsured and God only knows how many underinsured it's still looking like any solution Congress and Obama will agree on is one that saves the the insurance companies, not one that improves Americans' access to care.

Democrats lose because they sell out to their corporate donors - just like Repblicans do. Only this time, they're not just losing disappointed "newbies" a lot of us hacks who have stuck with the party through thick and thin since we were young are fed up.

[Starry Messenger]

66. Aren't you the same guy who wanted to shell Iran last week?

[leftstreet]

71. I strongly believe a public option should cover trmt for bipolar disorder

[PretzelWarrior]

73. no. I did not want the U.S. to shell Iran because of the election results

what I was saying is unfortunately this entire turn of events including the shut down of protesters through violence almost assuredly means the U.S. WILL Have to shell the nuclear installations or otherwise debilitate their endeavors to obtain nuclear weapons.

But go ahead and paint me as a bomb happy zealot.

The fact remains that most of you don't even know what you're saying as you rail against what I am saying. Many here see the same thing I do and are also trying to tell you people...WORK WITH Obama. Let him know you stand with him on public option without all the strings attached like Congress is trying to foist on us.

DON"T YOU GET IT???? I am saying the same thing as you. Fight against the career politicians. Even if they are Democrats. Even if they are Democratic leadership. Why are you so cynical about Obama? I think it is just a congenital disorder with some of you. That means YOU and YOU and YOU are part of the problem.

[TankLV]

77. You just want to "shell the nuclear installations" - You ARE the insane one who wants to BOMB Iran!!

You just said so yourself!!!

Johnny M, is that YOU?!!!

jesusfuckingchristonahalfshell...

[Starry Messenger]

79. I don't have to paint you as anything.

You just projected a whole bunch of stuff there PW. My advice, switch to decaf and cut down on the !11!!!!!!s. Then it won't be so easy to remember your um, contradictions.

[TankLV]

78. Yes, yes he is - he says so himself HERE!!!

good catch...

[asteroid2003QQ47]

75. "...Early stages..."!? Get a fucking clue, Grasshopper!

Sixty Four fucking Years ago, when I was already 3+ yrs. old, President Truman said,

"The time has arrived to help millions of Americans living without a full measure of opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health . . .
and *to have* protection . . . against the economic effects of sickness."

How fucking much longer do you think I should *or can* wait before I become another of the thousands of annual victims of Uncle Sam's 'Health Care Genocide'?

[truedelphi]

95. I hear you. I bet he people rallying for a "prolonged fight" are probably

people in their twenties or thirties who don't have that much of a risk of being killed off by the current system.

[Phx_Dem]

76. Amen. Weakening the President and the party before

he's even been in office for a year, and already done many good things, and before health care is passed is pretty stupid. When I hear people say "we holding his feet to the fire," I don't know whether to laugh or throw up. You can't hold someone's feet to the fire before they've even had ample time to do something. It's just like calling him a failure because he didn't repeal DADT in the first 5 months. Lame.

[walldude]

81. What's lame is sitting there imagining that Obama is going to turn into

Uber-Liberal at some point in time. You can't hold their feet to the fire before they've had ample time? So all this talk about no single payer and no public option is just that all talk? Obama is going to wave his magic wand and make everyone change their minds because he is reading the minds of all Americans?

Yeah you have it right, just sit there and shut up. Don't complain, don't let it be known what you don't like. Just shut up and deal. Good fucking plan

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

84. What's really lame is expecting Obama to be something that he never claimed to be

and then bitching about it.

[Fire1]

86. Nail on the head! n/t

[asteroid2003QQ47]

88. So if he's faced with an unforeseen problem we're SOL? THAT'S lame thinking! n/t

[asteroid2003QQ47]

82. Lame and stupid is believing that the "President," ANY President, is accorded...

power beyond superficial. 'Presidents' in Uncle Sam's system serve primarily as little more than combination scapegoats/safety valves. Said 'system' is, in Sam's sham 'Land of the Free,' totally reliant on Groupies of varying degree that, as enablers of Burke's "bad men," secure the status quo to the detriment of the "good."
----------------------------------------------

When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.
--Edmund Burke 1770)

[treestar]

98. Amen, it's the conservative Dem Congress Creatures who should be

leaned on.

A Dem President is not a left wing "decider."

The immaturity of the "Obama didn't do by himself what I want on my pet issue" is astounding.

[krabigirl]

85. Yep, and this is why they will lose badly in 2010, if this keeps up.

People were energized and VOTED in 2008. Think they will in 2010 if the Dems don't deliver? Think again!

[jeanpalmer]

87. There will be no universal health care

any time soon, because the money is not available to fund it. The Govt is running a $1.8 trillion deficit. Half of government spending is not being paid for by taxes but instead by debt. That would be like if your personal income was down, and you were paying your monthly expenses half with your paycheck and half with a credit card, and someone told you you ought to buy a $500 a month health insurance policy. Wouldn't make any sense.

Single payer is off the table because with the economy and employment in bad shape, politicians are not going to do anything that throws people out of work (insurance company employees) and that has indeterminable transition costs. Public option is off the table because the CBO just estimated that a full public option program would cost the government $400 billion a year ($4 trillion over 10 years). And that kind of money just isn't there. With the deficit so huge, the Congress is not going to fund a new program by printing more money. The deficit as it is is staggering.

Those are the realities. You can call or e-mail your Congressman or Obama all you want, but it's not going to change the numbers. And it won't change any votes. If you don't have the money for something, you can't buy it, it's that simple.

The only way to get universal healthcare would be to end the wars, reduce defense spending beyond that, and eliminate Bush's tax cut for the rich. That would provide the funds for healthcare. So that's what we ought to be lobbying for. But do you see any appetite in Congress or in the WH to do any of those things? Are they even thinking about them? NO. Would they even consider doing those things? Not from what I can tell. They want to continue the wars, keep defense spending at astronomical level, and not raise taxes.

So that's why there will be no major overhaul of healthcare. They'll tinker around the edges, cover a few more people, call it healthcare reform, and hold a big signing ceremony in the WH to fool the people. It will be like the credit card "reform."

[PretzelWarrior]

89. NOOO!! I specifically remember tax on top 1% is still happening. I also remember

the gigantic reduction of force in Iraq and minor increase in force in Afghanistan coupled with savings in health care should allow for the United States to enjoy better health care at lower cost in a NEAR universal fashion.

We've too long "tinkered around the edges"

This is the new moment. We've got our built in crisis with baby boomers retiring by the droves and launching the medicare costs as it stands now into the stratosphere.

WE MUST ACT NOW. FIERCE URGENCY OF NOW> My wife and I have made tremendous changes in our finaces very quickly. So have the banks, GM, etc. The government can too.

[jeanpalmer]

90. As I understand it

most of the soldiers coming out of Iraq will be transferred to Afghanistan. The recent request for funding for the wars was the same as last year, so where is the savings? There should be some savings after next year as more Iraq troops come home, but how much? About 25% of the troops will be brought home, so will we save 25% of the $154 billion annual cost. If so, that would amount to $38.5 billion. Not enough to fund even 10% of a public option ($400 billion cost).

If they let Bush's tax cut completely expire, that would bring in another $110 billion - $150 billion. Still not enough.

If they de-funded both wars and ended the tax cut, they would have ~$300 billion to work with. That would amount to 75% of the money needed for full public option. OTOH, the deficit will cause massive holes in futue budgets in terms of interest expense. This year's $1.8 trillion deficit, if they can borrow the money at 3%, will increase each year's deficit by $50 billion every year from now til eternity. And every deficit from here on will also add onto yearly interest expense. 2010's $1 trillion deficit will add another $30 billion a year in interest expense. So the 2009 and 2010 deficits will add at least $80 billion a year to future annual deficits.

That's why the numbers don't add up for universal healthcare. This country has spent itself into a hole, mostly for war, and it's getting too late to get out. Sure is nice we're getting so much out of these wars

[PretzelWarrior]

92. okay. let's take ten cents out of every dollar Iraq makes on their oil.

or charge people more tax so that it at least is 30% of the savings they can enjoy from not having to be raped by the medical insurance companies. There are answers to these problems. You're just either not trying hard enough to find them or trying very hard to find problems rather than solutions.

[Veruca Salt]

91. I want my pony damnit!!

j/k of course - great post!

[PretzelWarrior]

93. love. just love the name.

talk about a girl who just wanted her pony, dammit.

ahhh..you're in Portland, Maine and I'm in Portland, Oregon. Cool.

[Veruca Salt]

99. On the east or west coast, Portland is the place to be!

And I shall someday visit the one on the west coast; from what I've heard and seen in pictures, it's a fabulous place.

And for the record... my pony will have a wonderful rainbow colored mane.