Now I see the method to his madness

[EffieBlack]

At first, I was puzzled by President Obama's insistence on "not looking" back" on the torture issue. But now I think I see why he took that position.

Just look at what's happening. Fingerpointing every whichaway.


I now see that President Obama didn't approach this in a vaccuum. He spent four years in Congress where he certainly must have seen and heard that Senate and House Democratic leaders had been co-opted to some degree by the Bush Administration and CIA. He surely understood that, if this issue was pushed too hard in the wrong way, former Bush Admoinistration officials and Republican operatives would immediately throw that in their faces un an effort to shift blame, obfuscate the issue and smear targeted Democrats.

And that's just what's happening. I thonk President Obama, one of the savviest and keen-eyed politicians we've seen in generations, knew saw this coming a mile away and tried to steer us clear of it.

[Vincardog]

1. I do not want to have anyone "steer us clear of" bringing the traitors to justice.

[EffieBlack]

7. I didn't say he was trying to steer us clear of punishing torture

I said he may have realized that going at it the way some of us wanted would be counter-productive and could actually result in the guilty NOT being punished.

[Vincardog]

9. How exactly would appointing a special prosecutor , investigating and trying the treasonous bastards

be counter-productive?

[boppers]

12. Show trials and kangaroo courts have a way of backfiring.

It creates more political hay than justice.


edit: missed word

[Vincardog]

14. Oh I get it you want "Show trials and kangaroo courts" I want real trials and real courts

[BlooInBloo]

25. hahahah!!! Willful idiotic misinterpretations are funny.

[HopeOverFear]

30. Aren't they though? LOL

[stillcool]

13. I think that sometimes..

what is on the surface does not reflect what is really going on. There have been oodles of requests by government officials to appoint a Special Prosecutor. It will happen, it's just a matter of when. I hope that people are contacting their representatives and Eric Holder on this. I think that the media meme about those 50% of Americans that are okay with torture and see no need for investigation or prosecution needs to be blown out of the water. The fight that is in the public eye today between the Republicans and Nancy Pelosi is a gift towards action. The more torture is in the news, the better the chance of action. I appreciate every thread that blames Obama for the lack of action. Anything to keep the topic alive is a good thing.

[Sanity Claws]

2. I agree with the first part but not your conclusion

Obama saw what would happen if he stayed out of it. He stayed out of it because Congress and the former Bush admin could cause an investigation without him. Why get in the mud if you don't have to?

[BeFree]

4. Let's hope we are right

As it appears that Obama knows how to work these guys and get what he wants without getting cut himself, because you know they'd cut him to shreds.

[PatSeg]

8. That was my take as well

I'm quite sure he did not expect this issue to just fade away, but better to let Congress deal with it.

[graywarrior]

3. Never underestimate a guy who won this election by using street smarts and savvy.

Community organizers can see the entire neighborhood, not just what's on their street.

[lamp_shade]

5. Amen, graywarrior.

[NoSheep]

17. Amen to both of you.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

6. In thinking about torture and torture photos

and who knew what when etc,etc,etc, I have come to the conclusion the message being sent to us by the President is 'you have to stop this madness, not I. When you rise as one and DEMAND an end to torture, and DEMAND the perps be held accountable, then something will happen. Until then, you are like children waiting for Daddy to fix it. That's not the way a true Republic works'
Of course this is only my take on it many of you, I'm sure,will see it different. But think about it, all through his campaign Obama talked about change coming from the electorate. As a community organizer he knows the real power comes from a united grpup of people who will not back down. We are either outraged and want something done, or we are just full of shit and don't really care. Which is it? :shrug:

[Karenina]

10. BINGO!

:toast:

[Kaleko]

27. Right on.

How can people forget that his message was always Yes, WE can?

Obama can't be a transformational leader without us being the ones who transform the culture of this country from the bottom up and the top down.

These are times of social upheaval where no one will be able to keep holding on to the status quo.

I'm impatient for drastic structural changes to happen soon, in fact, NOW! But this President is skillful, supremely stealthy and cool. People underestimate him; he's the shrewdest tactician I've ever seen in the game, bar none.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

11. My theory FWIW

Obama has tried to stay "above the fray" so that the Republicans, Cheney, et. al can't lob grenades all day at him for being "vindictive" and launching a "partisan witch hunt" against former members of the Bush (mis-)administration over "political disagreements". Obama DID put those memos out there and denounced what happened but we will probably NOT see him take any direct action on this issue. My theory is that he is waiting for Congress to launch a full investigation which seems to be starting to gain some momentum, ironically, because Dead-Eye Dick is out there on TV trying to defend the (mis-)administration's use of torture (and alienating a lot of Republicans in the process) and the Republicans in Congress are now trying wildly to desperately smear Pelosi and other Democrats for "knowing" about their ILLEGAL activities but doing nothing about it in hopes that we'll be too afraid of their vicious attacks to actually call for an investigation (they seem to be coming up "snake eyes" so far). The end result of all this is that it seems to have largely become a CONGRESSIONAL issue NOT a Presidential one, and, most importantly, Republicans themselves seem to be only making it MORE likely that some kind of investigation is eventually going to happen or, even better, that an independent counsel may eventually get appointed to sort everything out- which is something we all want. Heck, because of Cheney shooting his mouth off, we now know that the whole purpose of their torture/EIT program may have been for establishing fraudulent links between AQ and Saddam Hussein during the run-up to the war/occupation of Iraq, NOT to save lives as they were claiming. If a real investigation of these outrages ultimately happens, it is WAY preferable that it happens THIS way (i.e. through Congress) than for Obama and Holder to push it themselves.

There was a post the other day asking where the whole "Obama playing Chess" mythology is coming from. I'm not positive but I think that this is one of those times where Obama really IS "playing Chess" against the GOP and his detractors (and winning).

[NoSheep]

18. I'm in total agreement and amazed that this isn't more obvious to most at DU.

[brentspeak]

15. If Obama was as "savvy" as you think he is, he wouldn't be forced to embarrasingly reverse himself

[NoSheep]

19. Who said he was embarrassed? Maybe you would be. People of integrity do the right thing

and embarrassment isn't a consideration. I think you are assuming a lot to think he is embarrassed by anything he has done.

[Skittles]

24. pretzels, anyone?

[Captain Hilts]

16. We need to learn about the PROCESS that made it possible. We MUST look back.

I have friends in the military and DO NOT 'THANK' the president at all for being "SAVVY."

[NoSheep]

20. Perhaps they will in time.

[Skittles]

26. sure they will

[NoSheep]

33. Stalk much?

[Captain Hilts]

28. Right now all the wrong people are being blamed for torture: low-ranking enlisted,

the National Guard, Nancy Pelosi, etc.

The officers involved and the politicians who suggested it and ordered it are not.

No one in the military thinks that's fair.

[Cha]

21. He has the experience and

the intelligence to know how to go about this the best way and that's not always "right now!".

Afterall, he has to battle the rw party of NO, the corporatemediawhores and all those who think they can do a better job but somehow didn't get themselves elected or even run..or even get up out of their armchairs.

[goclark]

29. It shocks me to think that Democrats would believe

that he wants to continue evil deeds started by the previous administration.

The man is extra special but he can not be Howdy Doody to all the Bobs that are quarterbacking each play in THEIR LIST .

There is such a thing as a Positive Push. By that I mean that he wants us to stand with him, don't fight him. He is not the enemy. There is no way on earth that he would like for torture to continue.

No way!

Let's take Dennis K. as an example. He is a drum major for justice and I strongly believe that he is an honest politician that has progressive ways of handling problems.

As much as that is so, he could not get to 1st base with a majority of the Democrats. That being so, what could he have accomplished in office --- they would have walked all over him.

Obama may not be perfect and do everything according to all the Howdy's here but he has outsmarted the Rethugs time after time.

I'll stick with Obama and support him, not bash him.

[Cha]

31. We are so

in tune:)

[Skittles]

22. "steer us clear" ????

of investigating TORTURE?

[jeanpalmer]

23. If he had established a special prosecutor

he would mostly have preempted the political issues and the current chaos imo. Attention would immediately have been focused on the criminal investigation. The special prosecutor would have drawn all the attention. The Pelosi angle would not have gained traction. Also, everyone's response could have been, "I have no comment while a criminal investigation is ongoing." Everyone understands that.

By taking the approach he did, we now have a food fight on our hands. And what should have been a plus for Democrats and the rule of law has become a circus. I have no doubt Obama did not want to prosecute CIA agents. There probably would have been a revolt within the CIA. But why not just limit the investigation initially to the policy makers by limiting the jurisdiction of the prosecutor. After all, the main culprits are the policy makers.

Now, we have to hope there is a Congressional investigation, which was probably Obama's goal all along. It takes the monkey off his back and puts it on Congess'. He just didn't want to deal with a prosecution.

[MisterK]

32. I think he shouldve punished the war criminals

When you allow that you are effectively saying crime is ok.

[bigwillq]

34. Hello.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

My thoughts exactly. :hi:

[MisterK]

35. Hi bigwillq !

I appreciate that welcome.
:)