Is the death penalty against Catholic teaching?

[Critters2]

I thought the "life ethic" included a prohibition on the death penalty. Is that right? And, if it is, why didn't the bishops, Bill Donahue, Randall Terry, Alan Keyes, and the rest of the nutjobs go ballistic about the shrub being invited to ND?

[Uzybone]

1. Because its not about being a Catholic

its about Obama hate and disdain for womans rights.

One day the media will ask them about this dichotomy.

[Critters2]

2. That's my sense of it. nt

[Fresh_Start]

3. yes, the death penalty is against Catholic teaching

and you're question is reasonable as is the question about why the Catholics like Evangelicals think torture is okay

[Critters2]

4. Thank you. nt

[freddie mertz]

5. It is NOW. Of course, the Church used to burn "heretics" all the time...

But that was "back in the day" (the 16th century anyone?).

So there has been improvement on at least this point.

[grantcart]

6. Even more, starting "unjust wars" is considered against Catholic teaching

The theology of a 'just war' and an 'unjust war' is very specific and there has been no effort to label the Iraq war a 'just war'.

[freddie mertz]

7. Well, NOW it is...

The Popes USED to declare unjust wars all the time...

Alexander VI, Julius II, the list is endless.

Another marker of progress.

[Critters2]

9. I get that you don't like Catholics. But this discussion is about Notre Dame.

I don't think Alexander VI spoke at NDU, did he?

[freddie mertz]

16. I am a Catholic, at least ethnically...

I'm not religious anymore, but I was raised in a Catholic family, grew up next to a church, have priests and devout practitioners in my immediate family, and have worked for years (in perfect peace and harmony) at the Vatican library...

So please, throw your stones somewhere else.

[Justitia]

8. kind of, but not always. They allow loopholes. It's not absolute like abortion or gay marriage.

War is also allowed. Which is why they were A-OK w/Bush - he's just a death-penalty loving warmonger.

Don't bother trying to wrap your head around it. I gave up years ago.

[mvd]

10. Yeah, I think they are against it except in extreme self-defense situations

And the U.S. system doesn't fit that. This is one of the views I have in common. I'm Catholic in name, but am really a free-thinking Christian.

[Justitia]

12. They say the DP is allowed to protect society. It should only be used if there is no other way to

protect society. Well, "protecting society" is really subjective, which is why you don't see strong Church opposition to the DP.

It is certainly allowed for self-defense, but this loophole refers to the State.

[freddie mertz]

18. Well and accurately said...nt

[mvd]

19. That's what I meant by self-defense

I can't imagine a situation where it would fit that, so I just say I'm against the DP. :hi:

[Prism]

15. The Catholic church condemned the Iraq War

John Paul II and Benedict both had pretty severe words with the administration:

http://www.cjd.org/paper/jp2war.html

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/national/2008/04/16/a-rift-over-iraq-between-president-and-pope.html

While I can fault the church for many things, the Iraq war isn't one of them. That said, the overt politicization of bishops in the U.S. is a tragedy. Remember when priests and bishops in cities were all about poverty? Way before my time, but my family often mentions them. Suffice to say, they're not much for church-going these days.

[Tesha]

26. Did they excommunicate anyone over the war?

Or do they save that for prominent Catholic politicians
who vocally, publicly support women's rights?

Tesha

[LostinVA]

22. No, Pope Rat spoke out condemning the invasion of Iraq

Pre-emptive wars are not allowed, the DP isn't, and neither is abortion.

"Devout/Real" Catholics are consistent. I don't like Kaine, but he is consistent, for example.

[Justitia]

23. The Catholic Catechism position on the DP from the Holy See (Vatican) website:

Capital Punishment

2266 The State's effort to contain the spread of behaviors injurious to human rights and the fundamental rules of civil coexistence corresponds to the requirement of watching over the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime. the primary scope of the penalty is to redress the disorder caused by the offense. When his punishment is voluntarily accepted by the offender, it takes on the value of expiation. Moreover, punishment, in addition to preserving public order and the safety of persons, has a medicinal scope: as far as possible it should contribute to the correction of the offender.67

2267 The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.
"If, instead, bloodless means are sufficient to defend against the aggressor and to protect the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
"Today, in fact, given the means at the State's disposal to effectively repress crime by rendering inoffensive the one who has committed it, without depriving him definitively of the possibility of redeeming himself, cases of absolute necessity for suppression of the offender 'today ... are very rare, if not practically non-existent.'

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7Z.HTM

There is a lengthy section on "Avoiding War" - but no specific prohibition on "Pre-emptive War" that I can find.

I think both these sections are where we find the "loopholes" I was talking about.

[IndianaGreen]

11. Pax Christi demonstrated against Bush on the two occasions he came to Notre Dame

Unlike the likes of Randall Terry and Alan Keyes, they are 100-percent pro-life, which also means being against hunger, injustice, the war, and the death penalty. Donahue is an idiot whose tiny Catholic League is a media creation.

[anonymous171]

13. Absolutely. nt

[boppers]

14. Accumulating vast amounts of money is also un-Catholic...

..take a look at the poverty over at the Vatican.

If you're looking for a sense of logic, the Catholic church might not be the best place to start. Logic and reason is pretty much rejected as a matter of faith and tradition.

[Occam Bandage]

17. Yes. It is. nt

[ElsewheresDaughter]

20. Yes it is

[LostinVA]

21. Yes, it should NEVER be an option

[Justitia]

25. The Church allows the Death Penalty. See my post # 23 from the Vatican. -eom

[bunkerbuster1]

24. We all knew Pope Benedict would double down on this hypocrisy.

When he was still just Cardinal Ratzinger, he was instrumental in assisting Americans looking to deny John Kerry communion for his pro-choice views.

I can get that devout Christians can be vehemently opposed to abortion, preemptive war, and the death penalty. I can't get how those who happen to believe in legal abortion are treated so much more harshly than those who believe in preemptive war and the death penalty.

I don't expect this will improve until Benedict has passed on and there's a new Pope.

[Tesha]

27. As long as the Church reseves its command structure to males only...

...it will not be able to accept that women also have
opinions, political positions, and rights. To acknowledge
these ideas would be to threaten the power of the boys
high-up in the club.

Tesha