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As I sat here watching Bill Maher, I kept thinking about honor...

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 12:18 AM
Original message
As I sat here watching Bill Maher, I kept thinking about honor...
Be it amongst thieves or those claim divine inspiration or just plain professional political commentators, honor came to mind.

For the past eight years, there has been an awful lot of talk about doing the right thing, about protecting the American people from harm with the dire caveat at any cost added for effect. This sentiment, of course, goes hand in hand with the pragmatic theme that the ends truly do justify the means. The two republicans on the panel were definitely subscribers to the pragmatic model. To be fair, that is really their job. To keep making a living, these pundits, who vicariously live through the careers of venial political hacks, must be able to shift from pragmatism to moral indignation at the drop of a hat. To be fair, our folks do it just as well although I like to think that our word warriors put at least some thought into the flop.

As I listened, as I am sure millions of other Americans have done over the years, I wondered what I would do if I had to make decisions that would truly compromise the mythos of America being a nation based on the rule of law in order to save lives. Would I do whatever it took to save those lives? Would I be tough enough to put principle over people? Because really, when you come down to it, innocent citizens harmed could very well have been the end affect of those decisions. (I know, many decisions made by politicians have dire consequences for tons of ordinary citizens. But war is much more dramatic than slapping nutrition labels on catsup bottles.)

I certainly knew what the political class, both democrat and republican, would say. They would ask this simple question of themselves to gauge their moral fabric; what would Jesus do. Remember both Gore and Bush back in the halcyon days of the late 90's said they would measure moral issues based on the Jesus model.

Of course, we all know what Jesus would say about torture. He’s agin’ it. But ask yourself this; was Jesus pro-torture because, if you follow the Christian plot line, he knew it was an integral part of his plan? Really now, if Jesus would have been given a choice between being tortured in order to get out “good” news or changing the world with a late night dinner party, what would Jesus do?

Anyway, I bring Jesus into this because of the true meaning behind standing behind what you truly believe in, no matter what the costs.

If these men and women who seek power by treating the Savior of millions like any other plot line in the story of their life, then we should expect what we get. It then becomes abundantly clear that morality is nothing more than a campaign gimmick.

However, the true part of the Jesus Saga that they could and should rely on to govern their public life is this; have the courage to stand behind your decisions no matter what the fall out. Jesus preached a message that was dangerous to the people who were in positions of power and yet he never once shied away from that message. To bring it closer to home, Martin Luther King, Jr. and Gandhi, even though they were both men with tremendous egos to go along with that sweet spark we call a divine calling, put it all on the line 24/7, 365. These men proved that ego is not an excuse for ducking out on morality.

Ah but herein lies the truth. Jesus, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr. were willing to put it all on the line no matter what. They were truly willing to accept the mortal consequence of the belief system that they honestly believed was right.

Is it too much to ask of those who claim Jesus as their moral guidepost, that think the religious stuff is all that, that they should stand behind their behavior and accept the consequences.

Jesus was willing to die on the cross, so it is written, in order to save the souls of millions of people. When will our leaders who profess fealty to Him do the right thing and simply say I did what I thought was right even though I knew it was wrong. Martin Luther King, Jr. did the honorable thing. Gandhi did as well.

I accept the full consequence of my action.

Will we ever hear these words uttered by a modern America Political figure?
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Someone might say it...
But s/he (I suspect) might not be telling the truth.

As you say, it's a campaign gimmick.


The other thing about Jesus, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King, Jr.: They all died for saying the truth. I'm not sure about Gandhi, but King and Jesus knew it would happen.

I'm not saying being willing to die is necessary. But it's a hell of a yardstick.

K&R


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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I suspect Gandhi knew
Ghandi was fighting the establishment just as Jesus, Martin, RFK and others have.

I agree with you about the yardstick.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thank you!
Hey, give WC's thread a rec...it's a good one!

:hi:
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. Are you just asking for accountability?
Or implying that Cheney and his ilk are hypocrites for trying to duck out on taking responsibility for their actions?

Are you trying to use Jesus, Gandhi, and MLK to embarrass them into at least considering taking responsibility? Or to embarrass the Public into calling for accountability?

Or have I missed some other point?...
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Accountability,,,
is the number one but all the other points you address are certainly there.
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Hehe... ok.
In that case, I agree. It would be nice. It would be nice if the previous administration volunteered to be judged... and it would be nice if the current administration made more effort to move toward judgement.

It seems as though neither is interested in it though.

I can't help but wonder, personally, why the Obama Administration is so reluctant. They're not getting anything but fight and obstruction from the Republicans anyway, and I'm sure the DoJ could spare a couple of lawyers to find an independent investigator...
I guess I really don't believe that an investigation would scare off/offend all that many "moderates". Then again, I'm apparently from the "far left"... so what would I know?
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Accountability,,,
is the number one but all the other points you address are certainly there.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
7. In America, its hard to hold on to power if you are fully accountable
there has to be someone else to blame when something goes wrong.


Another reason I admire our current President, he has asked to be accountable.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. He has a chance to do some real long term good for our country..
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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Obama actually said "I would rather be a good president for 4 years
...then a mediocre president for 8 years"

Another time he said he's probably going to spend all his political capital in 4 years.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
10. That's the problem. Constructing a national policy based on an ancient myth.
Edited on Sat May-16-09 06:28 AM by RagAss
Why not Mother Goose ?
No wonder we're a rudderless ship !
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. You are calling Jesus ancient myth? Even if you do not believe in
Him, surely you acknowledge that the message He brought was a just one. It is the message that is being discussed. I, for one, cannot understand Obama's stand on the Special Prosecutor issue. International treaties we have signed demand action; it is the law. It is also the honorable thing to do. Why must politicians always concern themselves with the fallout, the next election? Obama could stand tall in history; he may not.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. How did you ever get that from what I wrote...
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