Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Is claiming Obama isn't a "progressive" exclusionary?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 11:45 AM
Original message
Is claiming Obama isn't a "progressive" exclusionary?
I consider myself a liberal. I'm not as big a fan of the word "progressive," but regardless of which word you choose, there are a lot of people - both on DU and other parts of the left blogosphere - who insist that Obama isn't a liberal or isn't a progressive.

Personally, I think that's a dangerous sign. This is exactly the same thing as right-wing Republicans declaring that everyone to the right of Mike Pence isn't a "real conservative." It's an exclusionary, purist mode of thinking that, if it were applied, would just result in a smaller and smaller party.

That isn't to say that I agree with everything Obama has done. I'm not a fan of Larry Summers as his chief economic advisor, and I think Geithner is in over his head. I think they ought to nationalize the banks and break them up. (Although I realize it isn't a clear cut case: nationalization may well prove more expensive, there's no will in Congress to appropriate that money, nor is it clear they have the legal authority; moreover, the FDIC has never taken into receivership a bank whose assets were greater than 2% of the overall banking system - taking over the 4 largest banks would be well over a majority.)

I also think they need to move quicker on gay rights and should have pushed harder for bankruptcy cram-down. And I think the stimulus should have featured fewer tax cuts and more infrastructure spending.

You're never going to agree with a politician 100% of the time. Moreover, the nature of politics is such that compromises are going to be made. It doesn't matter how personally liberal a political figure is - when they're in a leadership position, even the best-intentioned have to pick and choose their battles and work within the political constraints they're granted.

This isn't an argument for complacency - by all means, be an activist, push from the outside, apply pressure over your pet issues. But spare me the "Obama=Bush" rants. Like this one:



> http://www.openleft.com/showQuickHit.do?quickHitId=8818

There wasn't evenv a hick-up from one administration toi the next ...
.. despite the changing of parties.
If anything it accelerated as the new adminsitration came in and paid off favors to their wall street campaign supporters. They'll never lose until the people rise up and make them pay in some other way ... if they ever do ... becoz the sytem they've created and their government will not do it.
Z
by: Z @ Fri May 01, 2009 at 19:59
< Reply >

...

and this -- even Cap and Trade is Summer's market-creating idea --
Black Agenda Report's 100 days report card -- excellent overall -- http://blackagendareport.com /?...
... The so-called "Cap And Trade" scheme favored by the Obama adminstration enacts the reprehensible suggestion of Obama advisor Larry Summers' that African and other less developed countries are I"underpolluted" by establishing a corporate "right" to pollute, along with a financial market to buy, sell, trade and speculate on the value of these imaginary pollution "rights." It doesn't appear to have reduced carbon emissions in Europe, according to Dartmouth's Dr. Michael Dorsey, but it has made a lot of traders and speculators rich. , and is a product of the same market-as-solution-to-everything exhibited during the Bush years. A tax on carbon emission s would be more straightforward. ...


by: amberglow @ Fri May 01, 2009 at 20:40
< Reply >

but he's so smart ...
... but he's so wrong about almost every goddman thing that he's zealously promoted/enacted; policies that have led us to this situation: free trade, deregulation, derivatives not being regulated, taking down the depression era legislation that split up the banks and brokerages (glass-steagal act), etc.. One can only come to the conclusion that summers is either very stupid or extremely immoral, yet obama hires him and puts him into power again and allows him to serve wall street at the expense of the american people again. It's dispciable and disgraceful and he'll pay a price for this at some pioint I believe.
And supposedly the jackass wants to appoint summers as federal reserve chairman next ... that's fucking criminal.

Z
by: Z @ Fri May 01, 2009 at 20:51
< Parent | Reply >

these are their priorities and the only ones who matter to all of them -- Congress too --
here's another great one from BAR -- http://blackagendareport.com /?...

-- Status QuObama: A Hundred Days of Fake-Progressive BS and Liberal-Left Surrender
by: amberglow @ Fri May 01, 2009 at 21:22
< Parent | Reply >

I hope that the blacks stop supporting him en masse becoz his polices harm them ...
.. more than most.
If he does not change his policies and keeps selling us out, the blacks going against him would be a very good sign in my opinion and would signal a miscalculation by the establishment that the group of people most likely to riot have not fallen for the changeling bullshit and won't be pacified by putting another corporate sell-out in as president just becoz he happens to be black. Don't be surprised oif that happens becoz, again, they will most likely be most harmed by his policies.
Z
by: Z @ Fri May 01, 2009 at 21:35
< Parent | Reply >

This is a good line from this article ...
... and a conclusion that I have also independently ... and disappointedly ... come to as well:
"The absence of spine and intelligence on the part of what passes for a Left in the U.S. is quite remarkable. By demanding nothing of Obama and the Democrats except that they not technically be Republicans, our so-called "progressive" organizations effectively grant advance approval to whatever corporate and imperial policies the new president and the Democrats execute."

Not all progressives belong under this umbrella but there are plenty that do ... the majority I'd say ... and they throw around accusations of anti-semetism, divisiveness and prejudice at anyone that looks objectively at the situation. Hence you are anti-semitic for pointing out that the vast majority of obama's economic team is comprised of rubinites, and is essentially a jewish mafia.
You are anti-Mexican for pointing out that we have double-digit unemployment and decreasing wages when we are on the eve of a large amount of inflation entering this country and therefore further immigration would not be in the best interests of this country. And of course you are anti-African American for pointing out that obama is a fucking corporate/wall street whore sell-out.

But the fact of the matter is is that the majority of this country is very stupid ... how can that be argued at this point ... and that stupidity ranges from the right all the way to the left. It's very discouraging, but it is ...

Z
by: Z @ Fri May 01, 2009 at 22:23
< Parent | Reply >

MI blew its primary - just to be heard, so they say.
Now, we are in meltdown. The Car Czar is saying tell us what you need, and to my knowledge MI great Democratic leadership is saying nothing about renegotiating trade and passing healthcare, two of the most important things that need to be done to build a real American economy and create American jobs. Instead they are asking for more money for unemployment and welfare to take care of the millions of new poor Obama is making in our state.
The Gov. is talking about some PR scheme to "buy American". Somebody needs to remind her that all the cars are being made in Mexico and everything else is being made in China. 90% of all of our employment dislocations are being certified "as a result of foreign competition".

This administration has sealed the deal. I am fucking done with Democrats - all of them.

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich

by: dkmich @ Sat May 02, 2009 at 06:27
< Parent | Reply >

I'm done with them too
And I'm done giving them any money. Basically, they are running an extortion ring: if you don't support us, you know what you are going to get ... and that's all you get: a non-republican. And admittedly, often ... almost always ... the democrat is not as bad as the republican, but not better enough to effectuate a change of course in this country ... by design.

We now have a democrat president, senate and house and not enough has changed and we are being played for fools by obama, and rahm and the rest of the crew. There simply is no excuse for appointing emanuel and giving summers and geithner full run of the treasury unless you plan on serving wall street and other big money interests while deceiving the american people about it ... that's where emanuel comes in.

And notice on a quick hits post today that emanuel is doing the pr for treasury now after the aig bonus scandal. And notice how obama was sent out on tour to all those tv shows to flash his smile and do his elegant oratoricals to absorb the heat and deflect it. And notice that obama did not do a goddamn thing that he promised in order to deflect the citizen's heat. the bonuses are still going out, the tax that he initially supported to seize the bonuses back he does not back anymore and was not passed. but how many of the dumbass public know this? Probably about 10%, the rest of them go to bed thinking that obama took care of it for them when he did the exact opposite.

But that's what this administration is all about: serving the establishment while doing the absolute minimum to keep the public occupied during the heist.

Again, barak obama: head pr man for the establishment ... that's all he is, despite what my dumbass democrat friends choose to believe which is all based upon the administration's semantics and visuals starring barak obama.

oh well, rant over ... hope was over when obama sold out on the fisa retroactive immunity bill. it was clear then that he had little principles.

Z
by: Z @ Sat May 02, 2009 at 12:07
< Parent | Reply >


Like I said, I don't agree with everything the Administration is doing, and I think liberals/progressives need to push back and apply pressure on several issues. But if you can't see how this administration is different from BushCo, I don't have a lot of sympathy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Such crap is while I'm proud to never call myself a "true progressive"...
Let the kewlkidz break their arms patting themselves on their circle-jerking backs.

"Liberal" works just fine for me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Somawas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. Obama is not a progressive, nor is he a liberal
I do not say that in the interests of ideological purity. In general, I support Obama and his administration, and agree that he is very different from the Bushistas. I agree that liberals need to push back and apply pressure on this administration on several points, and that we need to support the administration in general.

But I also thing that the left needs to reclaim the left. Obama is a centrist. He's a good bit to the left of the bushistas. But the mother of all frames was making "liberal" a dirty word. Rather than allowing the right to redefine the center further right, we should be more realistic and define the right as marginal.

So Obama is cnter-right. Look it up. See where his dot is at politicalcompass.org. Center right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. "Center-right" in relation to what?
Thanks for engaging the question - I respect that. But I have to ask, center-right in relation to what?

Obama is much more liberal in most respects than the politicians of the '60s who called themselves "liberal." Back in the '70s, few "liberal" politicians were proposing a public plan for universal health care. (Single-payer never had many advocates in Congress.) On social issues, on environmental issues, none of the New Deal "liberals" were anywhere near to the left of Obama - most of them would be solidly to his right.

Granted, on an issue-by-issue basis there would be differences, and in some cases, the postwar liberals would be to Obama's left. But on the whole, Obama strikes me as clearly to the left of most of them.

Even FDR wouldn't qualify as a "progressive." At the time, he was assailed by many on the left as being a sellout. His initial safety net programs were far less extensive than they are today, and social security eligibility was extremely limited.

So again, Obama is "center-right" relative to what? Relative to other countries? Which other countries? Europe? Perhaps, but even in Europe, single-payer health care systems are the exception, not the norm (Germany isn't single-payer - neither is Switzerland). And there are plenty of issues on which American liberals are to the left of Europe, such as immigration, ethnic and religious diversity, even abortion in many cases (many European countries have more restrictions on abortion than the U.S.).

Is he "center-right" in relation to Americans? I find that *very* hard to believe, despite what some "progressives" will insist, citing favorable polls and surveys.

Moreover, I would question whether any person - no matter how liberal - will be as liberal as progressives desire when actually in office. Obama may be well to the left but faces political constraints that tie his hands. Put Dennis Kucinich in power, and I guarantee you he'd let plenty of supporters down on numerous issues.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
31. Nixon would be considered a liberal today.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. "So Obama is cnter-right. Look it up. See where his dot is at politicalcompass.org"
Well then, if it says so on the internet it must be true..........
:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Well, but won't it depend
on WHICH of the internets is being referenced?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Somawas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Let your political compass be defined by the right wing.
I don't care.

Obama is no liberal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I DON'T let it be defined by a WEB SITE
I don't need a web site or the right wing to define my "political compass," I am able to do that without any help, thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Somawas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. So am I, for that matter.
I commend to your attention John Pilger's article on Obama's first 100 days. After you've perused it, get back to me on what a great liberal Obama is. http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=530
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. Why not just rely on his record. You don't need subjective political commentary
Edited on Sun May-03-09 10:05 PM by Liberal_Stalwart71
to justify your point.

Just look at his voting records in the IL State Senate and the U.S. Senate.

www.vote-smart.org

Again, had people done their homework during the primaries and actually examined his record rather than buying into right-wing claptrap that he's some leftist commie, we wouldn't be still having these daily arguments about why Obama is doing that or isn't doing this. Or, why isn't he listening to liberals...blah, blah. blah! He is not, nor has he ever been a liberal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. Why people continue to call him a liberal is beyond me. There is nothing in his record,
Edited on Sun May-03-09 08:43 AM by Liberal_Stalwart71
at the state level, nor the Senate, nor as the president that would suggest otherwise. The guy is not liberal. And if people would have done their research, they would have realized that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Well, he sure as hell isn't right-wing.
Edited on Sun May-03-09 09:57 PM by TwilightZone
Strongly pro-choice - 100% by NARAL
Strongly favors affirmative action
Opposes school prayer
Opposes death penalty
Pro gun-control
Strongly in favor of more fed funding for health care
Strongly opposes privatizing social security
Pro-alternative energy
Pro-immigration
Strongly in favor of campaign finance reform

Yeah, he sounds like a right-wing wacko to me. Oh, sorry, "center right", as DUers love to label him.

Source: http://ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Thank God he isn't. He's a Centrist. And I think in many ways a pragmatist.
But he's not a liberal and he sure as hell isn't a wingnut. I don't even think he's center-right. I just think he's a centrist; it's hard for him to take firm stances on much of anything. He seems far too nuanced in his thinking/reasoning. He's a freaking lawyer for chrissakes!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. Obama is center-right
http://politicalcompass.org/uselection2008

<snip>

When examining the chart it's important to note that although most of the candidates seem quite different, in substance they occupy a relatively restricted area within the universal political spectrum. Democracies with a system of proportional representation give expression to a wider range of political views. While Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader are depicted on the extreme left in an American context, they would simply be mainstream social democrats within the wider political landscape of Europe. Similarly, Obama is popularly perceived as a leftist in the United States while elsewhere in the west his record is that of a moderate conservative. For example, in the case of the death penalty he is not an uncompromising abolitionist, while mainstream conservatives in all other western democracies are deeply opposed to capital punishment. The Democratic party's presidential candidate also reneged on his commitment to oppose the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. He sided with the ultra conservative bloc in the Supreme Court against the Washington DC handgun ban and for capital punishment in child rape cases. He supports President Bush's faith-based initiatives and is reported in Fortune to have said that NAFTA isn't so bad. Despite all this, some angry emailers tell us that Obama is a dangerous socialist who belongs on the extreme left of our chart. In an apparently close race, genuine leftists McKinney and Nader may attract sufficient votes from Obama to deliver McCain to the Oval Office.

<snip>



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Sure he is...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. President Obama in NOT a "Left Liberal"
No one would say he is, including himself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. People keep saying that....
Edited on Sun May-03-09 09:57 PM by TwilightZone
Strongly pro-choice - 100% by NARAL
Strongly favors affirmative action
Opposes school prayer
Opposes death penalty
Pro gun-control
Strongly in favor of more fed funding for health care
Strongly opposes privatizing social security
Pro-alternative energy
Pro-immigration
Strongly in favor of campaign finance reform

Yeah, he sounds like a right-wing wacko to me. Oh, sorry, "center right", as DUers love to label him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. Thank you!, I always use that site when some idiot calls Obama "center-right"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. What you said -- +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. I doubt Obama cares what people call him
He's not an ideologue. To me he is left, but of a left tradition that is more pragmatic than purist, more organizer than activist. For him, it's about getting stuff done whenever, wherever and however possible, that makes government work in the public interest. This is why I voted for him, so I'm okay with who he is, even while I may disagree here and there on a policy level.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Undercurrent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I couldn't agree more!
You expressed my thoughts to a T. Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. If Obama is able to move something along a 1/2 mile instead of the mile he wants
He's going to take the 1/2 mile now, rather than stand still, and the other half whenever it becomes more feasible. Trying to squeeze Obama into some ideological box is partly what keeps people around here so all fired disappointed with one thing or another. They keep expecting him to do what they want done rather than him doing what he can realistically get accomplished.

I like that smilie
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. he specifically denies being one
he claims to be a centrist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. To make matters worse, he called himself a Clinton Democrat which to me means that he is a
DLC tool. :puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-02-09 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. No, but opposition to marriage equality sure as hell is.
That's one of the eggs broken to make his not-quite-Progressive omelet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
15. based on his actions and stated positions Obama occupies the ideological postion as Bill Clinton
Without trying to define what a progressive is, Obama is what Clinton is and vice versa.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. Obma is to the left of Bill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Want to compare them issue by issue?
I have, and they're practically identical.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
20. Both "liberal" and "progressive" are open to
a wide range of definitions. That's why I call myself a leftist, which leaves no room for misunderstanding.

As a leftist, I can clearly state that there is nothing "left" about Obama. He is a strong centrist, and, on some issues, center-right. He's worked very hard to solidify his position as a centrist.

That doesn't make him like the sociopathic GWB. It doesn't make him "as bad as" a right wing republican.

It just makes him a a president that I disagree strongly with on too many key issues.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
21. Progressives usually agree with Liberal ideals.
Edited on Sun May-03-09 03:19 PM by anonymous171
However, Progressivism should not be synonymous with Liberalism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-03-09 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. I call myself a Liberal and I consider Obama one too.
I can't call myself a "Progressive" because they term in my mind has taken connotations of "Naderite ideologue".

I AM A LIBERAL
MY PRESIDENT IS A LIBERAL

GOT IT?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. I got it - you're a centrist, and so is Obama
Edited on Mon May-04-09 10:04 AM by bananas
Calling yourself a liberal doesn't make you one.

edit to add: There's nothing wrong with being a centrist.
I like Obama, but I'm not going to expect him to have far-left policies,
because he's not a leftist.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. "Liberal" and "leftist" aren't interchangeable.
One can be liberal without being a leftist.

It's amusing how many people around here think that everything to the right of Gandhi is, at best, "center right".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. "not far left" does not equal centrist, though. "liberal" in fact implies "center-left"
IMO his rhetoric creates an illusion of Centrism because, in fact, "the center" is undergoing a left-ward shift, as I explained in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Also, remember that Obama was strongly influenced by the writings of Paul Alinsky, a left-wing community organizer from many years back. that background will give a different expression to Obama's liberalism then many are used to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. The President is a religiously conservative thinker
who opposes equal rights for all people, based on the prejudices he thinks are commanded of him by his faith. That is not liberal, that is extemely conservative, and also mixed with theocratic crap.
He is a socially conservative religionist, on many issues.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
35. He opposes equal rights for all Americans
He's far from progressive. He's hyper conservative in many ways. Being against equality for all people is just very much a right wing thing. He's to the right of many Republicans on his thinking about my family. I return the favor to his family, and give him half assed support that I will remove at any whim or for my own amusement. He's got a prejudiced mindset. Right wing style.
And yet he condones torture, if you bring a note from home. Gets all God under the collar about gay folks but torture, hell, that's just a policy difference! God loves waterboarding!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-04-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Bullshit!
You, on the other hand sound like a typical Naderite purist that thinks anyone who disagrees with you is an evil reactionary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Aug 28th 2014, 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC