Do You Believe Someone Could Subconsciously Do and Say Racist Things... And Not Be Aware Of It?

[Uncle Joe]

Poll question: Do You Believe Someone Could Subconsciously Do and Say Racist Things... And Not Be Aware Of It?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Even white supremacists claim they're not racist.

They say things like "I don't hate niggers, I just love my pure white heritage."

Do I think they really believe it? No.

[FormerDittoHead]

2. More accurate rephrasing of the question... My "monkey" case...

I think the question would more accurately be asked:

Could one subconsciously do and say racist things... And Not Consciously Be Aware Of It?

Early in my business career, I was designing a database program. The boss wanted it easy to use. Thinking of the cliche of monkeys typing up the works of Shakespeare, I said it would be so easy a monkey could do it, upon which I had to be educated about the alternative use of that word.

[Uncle Joe]

5. Edited toward your specifications.

Thanks, FormerDittoHead.:thumbsup:

[damonm]

11. Abso-freakin'-lutely!

I confess to being guilty of that myself. That was the cliche I thought of when I first saw the cartoon. I'd never heard "monkey" used in the context of an African-American person,(though I HAD in the context of someone of Japanese descent), so that particular application didn't occur to me. Yesterday caused me to educate myself a little better.

[yurbud]

13. I would not think of your database comment as racist unless it included some reference to blacks

however indirect.

Otherwise, monkeys are just funny.

[izquierdista]

3. Racism is illogical

As Spock would say. While there are racial differences in rates of disease, all the effort to prove intellectual or athletic ability due to race have come up short. But humans are an illogical bunch, so they can pick up some racist idea, incorporate it into their behavior and never have a clue that they are doing it.

[Captain Hilts]

4. YES! How many folks here have used the term 'gyped'? 'Bitch'? 'Welshing on a bet'?

Doesn't make you racist.

[Bicoastal]

9. Bitch is a weird one--for better or worse, it's almost reached the point of social acceptability.

Because the offensiveness of the word "bitch" is all about context--who says it to or about whom, and why, and in what tone of voice. I think attempts to give "bitch" the "N-word" treatment are futile.

[Captain Hilts]

12. But offensive terms for women 'bitch', 'ho', are becoming MORE 'acceptable' and they shouldn't.

As a verb, 'bitch' is tied to images of "shrewish fishwives," or women driven to emotional instability by their menstrual cycles. It really IS sexist.

So, they shouldn't be more acceptable. And men should not use them in public discourse. Private, fine.

[Sebastian Doyle]

14. It's all Meredith Brooks' fault !!111!!!!!1!

And she wouldn't have it any other way :evilgrin:

[LiberalFighter]

18. Try stopping dog breeders from throwing bitch around all the time.

[Buck Laser]

27. But they had the term first, I think...

[Lyric]

31. The word "faggot" means a bundle of sticks

or a cigarette in Britain. Does that take away from its offensiveness in everyday American life?

I think people can tell the difference between a person referring to a female dog and a person referring to a woman in an offensive way.

[DevonRex]

15. Being mostly Welsh I really hate that term. Especially since an Englishman

I know told me that they routinely make fun of the Welsh over there. But most folks here don't realize the origin of the term.

[Captain Hilts]

17. I'm English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish. Really. And I'm sensitive to the term. And people...

don't even know what they're saying when they say it. When I call them on it they're really surprised.

[damntexdem]

6. What I don't believe is that most Americans are free from such subconscious racism.

When one is brought up in a racist society, one internalizes it -- and it is very difficult to root out, no matter how conscientiously one tries.

[Captain Hilts]

16. We're also heightists as from when we are very young, we associate authority with height.

Taller people are consistently seen as more worthy of respect. People here made fun of Prez. Bush not being as tall as Michelle Obama, as if either had anything to do with it and as if it was a meaningful measure of anything.

Until GWBush, the visibly taller candidate nearly always won.

Tall people are described as 'regal' even though the crowned heads we in the US are more familiar with - the British royal family - are rather short. But we still think height is a component of being 'regal'.

[Bicoastal]

19. You know, as a 5 ft 6 male, I'm as likely to call people out on heightism as anybody...

...but honestly, there's no point to it. This is just something that's built in to our civilization, into our species' DNA, and you might as well try to stop people from being more drawn to the company of the good-looking than to the ugly.

There are limits to non-bias; humans are fundamentally flawed.

[Captain Hilts]

23. Right. We notice differentiation based on many things.

But acknowledging that we initially think of folks with southern accents or fat people as stupid, or blacks as athletic and short people as less capable helps us get past it.

Let's just put it on the table. That helps us not act on those initial impulses.

They're ALL 'isms'.

[madmom]

7. Yes, my brother in law thought it was/is funny to say to me..

Hey, how'd your da-go? I am of Italian descent and the whole family thought it funny.

[Bicoastal]

delete

delete

[Bicoastal]

8. Today, I think very few people say and do racist things in order to be PERCEIVED as racist.

One of the greatest cultural accomplishments of the civil rights era was to turn bigots into social pariahs. Few people want to be known as racists, both because it's unacceptable in today's society and because they now fear the possibility of retribution.

So today, I think a lot of people say these hurtful things not to go "Hey, look at me, I'm a bigot," but because they don't know any better. To them, they're just telling it like they "know" it is. Most members of FreeRepublic would probably describe themselves as tolerant as they day is long.

[latinolatteliberal]

10. The subconscious kind is the most interesting. There was some NBA study...

If I remember correctly, there was some study done of NBA officiating that found that white and black referees called fouls against black and white players at different rates.

The most common initial response I heard to this study went something like this: "Of course the refs are going to call more fouls on black players. There are simply more black players!"

First, either people didn't bother to read what the study actually found, or they don't understand statistics. The results were interesting because statistically significant differences existed, even though the magnitude of the difference was small. That is, the researchers seemed to have found a subconscious bias among referees.

Second, I found it interesting that people focused their response on white referees and black players, since the same bias was found with black refs and white players. Perhaps a subconscious bit of racism operating in how people read the story, too?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

22. Yeah, I mean, it's a rather uncontrolled study, isn't it?

Could it not be an issue of aggresive behavior by the players involved, rather than the officials? Was there a metric involved to determine whether or not the calls (and non-calls) were justified? So far as I remember, it was a rather crudely done "study" that did not make any effort to control for other variables.

[latinolatteliberal]

28. Yes, controls were lacking, but I think insights can still be made.

Some players are more aggressive (stars come to mind) and some fouls are more deserved than others (according to each person's subjective opinion, I'm sure), but what I think was great about the study was that it could compare rate of fouls called across race lines. That is, perhaps black players do foul more, but why are they being called for those fouls at different rates by black and white refs? Are we to assume that players behave differently with different refs? Actually, they might do just that... which I think would be really interesting as far as a race discussion goes...

[xxqqqzme]

20. Don't know about subconsciousness but

I'd replace that word w/ ignorance. My parents, siblings & their spouses are extremely racist. None of them believe they are though because a 'Mexican' woman does her hair/nails; helps my dad around the house; give my BIL a 'deal' on some built ins for the family room. Couple that w/ periodic rants on Gore - yes, Gore, Pelosi and gays, those 5 days in Palm Springs around them seemed like an eternity.

[Spazito]

21. Yes, I believe it can happen but....

I DON'T believe a political cartoonist/satirist would be unaware of it in any context.

[SidneyCarton]

24. We all have prejudices and baggage which we accrue as we grow.

They are a function of the region, family, faith, or atmosphere in which we grew up and gained our first perceptions of the world. Some people, either by effort, or accident, or education, begin to see things from another perspective, and as such can be knowingly racist. However, many others do not gain this perception, and as such their "racism" is a function of their ignorance. Many cannot concieve of how hurtful they might be.

[Captain Hilts]

25. We ALL have them. We take mental shortcuts. Smart people are aware enough not to act on them.

[treestar]

26. Easily - there is always some new term or new take on something

That one does not become aware of yet. Sometimes it is to the point where you think, strangely, that there are those who want racists to exist and invent ways to make whites racist whether they want to be or not.

Many a white person out there doesn't know it is racist to find a black person "articulate." Or racist to praise any person of color (it always implies it is a surprise). These things work against racial harmony, and may not be intentional, but maybe it is more comfortable to stay in one place than to change, even for the better.

Having a half white/half black President will help a great deal, though. There's nothing he can't say about it - nobody is in a position to call him a "racist."

[Number23]

29. Absolutely. That's why the idea that racists can only be uneducated/Republican etc. makes me lmao

[onetiredmom]

30. I never knew

that some people considered "just a cotton-pickin" (minute, moment, etc) offensive. As in, slaves picking cotton. I grew up using that and it never occurred to me that it was anything but a slang phrase.