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Why do we so rarely hear anything about how Torture endangers our Soldiers more...?

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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:09 PM
Original message
Why do we so rarely hear anything about how Torture endangers our Soldiers more...?
by making it more likely that they will be tortured if captured?

It seems to me that this is one of the strongest reasons not to torture and yet I can't remember when I last heard anyone mention it. Almost no one ever talks about this. Am I wrong? What's up with this?
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. At this point, it's a given that captured soldiers are going to be tortured.
We already crossed the Rubicon on that subject quite awhile ago.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. I hear it every time people talk about what's wrong with torturing...
Along with the other obvious facts.

And the strongest reason, far and away, is that it's wrong.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I agree that that is the strongest reason. I just tend to think in terms of what would be
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 08:26 PM by patrice
persuasive to people who disagree with me about that point. I live in a RED state that doesn't even know what Purple is, let alone Blue, except for one pitiful Blue Dog congress-critter.

These people are sooooooo big on Soldiers, you'd think they would hav eopposed Bush's use of Torture.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. It requires intellect to conceive of anything remotely similar to Rawls' "Original Position"...
(generalization of the standard solution to the cake-cutting problem.)
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. It has been said by those who know the value of it

Do Unto Your Enemy...



By PAUL RIECKHOFF
Published: September 25, 2006

IN 2002, I attended the Infantry Officer Basic Course at Fort Benning, Ga. At the Schoolhouse, every new Army infantry officer spent six months studying the basics of his craft, including the rules of war.

I remember a seasoned senior officer explaining the importance of the Geneva Conventions. He said, When an enemy fighter knows hell be treated well by United States forces if he is captured, he is more likely to give up.

A year later on the streets of Baghdad, I saw countless insurgents surrender when faced with the prospect of a hot meal, a pack of cigarettes and air-conditioning. Americas moral integrity was the single most important weapon my platoon had on the streets of Iraq. It saved innumerable lives, encouraged cooperation with our allies and deterred Iraqis from joining the growing insurgency.

But those days are over. Americas moral standing has eroded, thanks to its flawed rationale for war and scandals like Abu Ghraib, Guantnamo and Haditha. The last thing we can afford now is to leave Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions open to reinterpretation, as President Bush proposed to do and can still do under the compromise bill that emerged last week.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/25/opinion/25rieckhoff.h...


I'm Still Tortured by What I Saw in Iraq


By Matthew Alexander
Sunday, November 30, 2008; Page B01

I should have felt triumphant when I returned from Iraq in August 2006. Instead, I was worried and exhausted. My team of interrogators had successfully hunted down one of the most notorious mass murderers of our generation, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq and the mastermind of the campaign of suicide bombings that had helped plunge Iraq into civil war. But instead of celebrating our success, my mind was consumed with the unfinished business of our mission: fixing the deeply flawed, ineffective and un-American way the U.S. military conducts interrogations in Iraq. I'm still alarmed about that today.

I'm not some ivory-tower type; I served for 14 years in the U.S. Air Force, began my career as a Special Operations pilot flying helicopters, saw combat in Bosnia and Kosovo, became an Air Force counterintelligence agent, then volunteered to go to Iraq to work as a senior interrogator. What I saw in Iraq still rattles me -- both because it betrays our traditions and because it just doesn't work.

Violence was at its peak during my five-month tour in Iraq. In February 2006, the month before I arrived, Zarqawi's forces (members of Iraq's Sunni minority) blew up the golden-domed Askariya mosque in Samarra, a shrine revered by Iraq's majority Shiites, and unleashed a wave of sectarian bloodshed. Reprisal killings became a daily occurrence, and suicide bombings were as common as car accidents. It felt as if the whole country was being blown to bits.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...


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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. Lack of courage
What we have done will affect our soldiers for at least a generation.

But our political leaders have not had the courage to talk about it. In fact, they had virtually no political courage when it counted.

Let's remember, we did well in 2006 and 2008 because the GOP was self-destructing, not because we had won the public over with our strident counter-positions.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yeah, our Blue Dog came home and shed a few of the requisite tears over it
a few years ago . . . all better now! :sarcasm:
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. You never hang around me; ; ) if you did you'd hear plenty about it


You don't even want to get me started.

Many family members of vets are the same way.

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shintao Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. WaterBoarding Toon !!
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. That is true, but torture per se is enough to condemn.
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wmbrew0206 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. Because it is a given that unless we're go to war with a NATO country or Japan...
US soldiers will be tortured if captured.

China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, the Taliban, and AQ would torture the hell out of a US Soldier if we were in a shooting war and they thought a captured US soldier had actionable intel.
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