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nodramamama Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:15 PM
Original message
UN Official in charge of torture has a message for our new administration

In an interview on Tuesday evening with the German television program Frontal 21, on channel ZDF Professor Manfred Nowak, the United Nations Rapporteur responsible for torture, stated that with George W. Bushs head of state immunity now terminated, the new government of Barack Obama was obligated by international law to commence a criminal investigation into Bushs torture practices.

The evidence is sitting on the table, he stated. There is no avoiding the fact that this was torture. He pointed to the U.S. undertakings under the Convention Against Torture in which the country committed that it would criminally prosecute anyone who tortured, or extradite the person to a state that would prosecute him. The government of the United States is required to take all necessary steps to bring George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld before a court, Nowak said.


But that's not all. From the same piece:

.

Law professor Dietmar Herz clarifies that under U.S. and international law, George W. Bush bears personal responsibility for the introduction of torture. From the point of his departure from office, head of state immunity terminates, and under clear principles of international law, the United States is obligated to commence a criminal investigation and then a prosecution.


http://harpers.org/archive/2009/01/hbc-90004250

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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hot damn!
I want the perpetrators and those who gave the orders brought to trial. This is the only way, in my opinion, that we can cleanse off the shame and disgrace of these hideous acts.
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grannie4peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. are you for real?
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. This is WHY there were no pardons... they can all plead the fifth...
A pardon would have taken away that protection because there would be no fear of self-incrimination and prosecution....


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grannie4peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. you are right
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Yeppers!
You got it! Also, do not for a moment believe that the Bushies have not saved a great deal of their eavesdropping info on people that they will undoubtedly threaten if prosecutions go forward. They have probably spent many hundreds of hours devising a strategy to protect themselves in the years after they have left office.
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grannie4peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. maybe that is why obama is so compassionate toward him. he knows schrub is dead
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. There will be an investigation into torture, without doubt.
Edited on Wed Jan-21-09 02:27 PM by Occam Bandage
Whether that investigation ends up resulting in criminal charges is a different question. Obama can cover his ass by simply saying, "well, we did our investigation, and unfortunately we don't have sufficient evidence demonstrating that George W. Bush knowingly ordered actions that he was aware amounted to torture under U.S. law." Which I would be disappointed by, but am kind of expecting.
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-09 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. Many of us have been holding our breath waiting for this moment in time.....
Lets get on with the party.... Prosecute this POS and all of minions.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
8. The world is going to expect and eventually demand Bush and Rummy
be tried for war crimes.

In his inaugural speech Obama stated, "our time of standing pat, of protecting narrow interests and putting off unpleasant decisions that time has surely passed." He may not have been referring to prosecuting Bush for war crimes but it certainly qualifies as an unpleasant decision.

OK so lets put the blame for this dirty little chore where it belongs. It isn't bad enough that Obama has been saddled with a collapsing economy, two wars, crumbling infrastructure, crippling debt, lingering terrorist threats, declining military readiness and rampant unemployment. Now he's expected to protect Bush, Rummy and the rest from prosecution for war crimes. I say FUCK THAT!

This is one problem we don't need and it can be easily solved. Let the self proclaimed "grown-ups" answer for their actions. Lets not compound the dishonor or trouble ourselves further trying to protect them. Turn them over to the international courts for prosecution. They have stained the honor of this country. They don't deserve our protection.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
9. The whole world is watching and Obama to have credibility will need to pursue this as well as our
Edited on Thu Jan-22-09 07:46 AM by Pachamama
Congress. I just pray that he is going to be doing so. I heard a rumor that Neal Katyal of Georgetown University was being designated as Solicitor General? If this is so, or any significant role for Prof. Katyal, this is a very good step in the direction of justice and the prosecution of Torturers.

Edit: Upon further research, I just learned it is Elena Kagan that is Obama's Solicitor General designee, but that Neal Katyal will be her Principal Deputy Solicitor, which is the #2 position. This is significant, for both people being chosen because of their positions and knowledge of Constitutional law.

Folks, this is all very good signs and steps in the right direction to cleaning house and addressing the crimes committed by the Bush Administration. I mean think about it: The person who took on the Bush Cabal in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld is going to be the Principal Deputy Solicitor General? He will have offices in the Supreme Court Building and the Solicitor General is often referred to being the 10th Justice.

:bounce:
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Credibility and confidence in our system again, which we'll need for any recovery.
I was thrilled to hear Obama talk about the need to restore confidence in his inauguration speech.
I would bet money he's going to do it!
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-09 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. K & R
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