A modest proposal for GD:P.

[smalll]

I have to admit, GD: P hasn't been so "fun" since it was GD:Primaries earlier last year. It recently has been particularly inspired, what with all the buzzwords and catch-phrases that have bubbled up out of the drama:

Get over it.
BULLY!
Mindless blank check.
Lockstep walkers.
President for -11 days.
Snubgate II (The Dean Edition.)
And of course, POUTRAGE.

Even ponies are making a re-appearance: I haven't seen so many ponies since the Primary Wars.

But as fun as this all is, DU is clearly on the brink (if we haven't fallen over it yet) of a constitutional crisis. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the whole premise of the site proscribes posters from bashing Democratic office-holders on a serious, sustained and regular basis. At this point, however, we have OPs that bash soon-to-be President Obama "without abash." How long can this go on?

One does have to admit that the incipient Impeach Obama crowd is not exactly a fringe element -- surprising, but true (considering that Obama has only been President for -8 days.) If this element continues to run down Barack Obama "without abash," day after day, there are only two possible results: a major rule change at Democratic Underground, or an epidemic of Burris-style all-weather resumes.

DU should remain DU, but people also need a place to vent. So I say, return GD: Presidential to GD: Politics after the Inauguration. GD: Politics will always have its place, where discussion is limited to politics, and where posts on pit bulls or tattoos (as fun as they are) are out of place. But to allow venting, the powers-that-be should create a third GD -- GD: Primaries 2012. There, people who clearly are already prepared to declare a preference for Dennis Kucinich (or perhaps Mike Gravel) in 2012 over Barack Obama will be allowed to do so: they can plan, discuss and agitate for their favored possible challengers. They can post about why their champion will be just what this country will need after Obama's four year term is over.

In doing so, they would not have to attack Barack Obama as he goes about the business of trying to shepherd America through the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression and the aftermath of the worst Presidency since forever (or at least since James Buchanan or Millard Filmore.) They could be required to be loyal to our President for now, but allowed to plan for someone they think would be a "better" President in four years' time.

And of course those of us who are still cool with Obama would be free to jump into GD: Primaries 2012 to fight them. Most people, of course, are likely to stay away from GD: Primaries 2012 for another two-and-a-half to three years. But setting it up NOW would provide both a neccessary venting forum while preserving Democratic loyalty in the present tense as well as the constitutional structure of DU.

[TahitiNut]

1. But ... DU already eats its young.

:dunce:

[cliffordu]

2. Yummy. I like 'em smoked real tender (mesquite) with a little slaw and some pico de gallo

[chknltl]

3. Cheney eats kittens too but nobody seems too concerned over it.

Not sure what my point is but it seemed like a good place to mention our VP's odd culinary habit.

[bridgit]

4. Ponies!? Let them eat ponies!!

[smalll]

8. Ah yes, the ponies. Their re-appearance in new guises has been interesting --

During the primaries, ponies were Hillarite buzzwords (I should know, I was a Hillarite back then.) We would use them to poke fun at the more worshipful and messianic Obama supporters - iPod kids and others. Well I'm on board with Barack. Looking forward to his Presidency. Now ponies are used by Obama supporters to poke fun at the poutragistas for their gross mis-expectations of what Obama would or should do (concentrate on getting Bush imprisoned, deny him Air Force One for his last ride home, throw Israel under the bus, staff his administration with Kucinich clones, etc. etc.)

As an Obama supporter now though, I've tried to stay away from pony-flinging, as I think I wore out my pony-flinging arm last year.

[Hekate]

5. I...I...I like it. And since you brought it up: aren't the impeachment posts BIZARRE?

:wow:

Hekate

[smalll]

6. Thanks! And yes, the impeachment posts are bizarre. To be fair though, I've only seen one

pro-impeachment OP so so far. Unless something is done however, there will be more.

[AntiFascist]

7. I disagree...

I think Obama welcomes criticism and the people pouting the loudest are the ones who can't stand their idol being criticized. They all need to board the wambulence and go through a 12-step program in order to get over the election run.

DU would be an awfully boring place if we can't speak truth to power.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

9. don't you think part of it that there was a void created when he

won? All of us spent 8 years focusing on what we were against -- bush, et al.

Now, we have to concentrate on what we are for - not what we are against.

This is an evolving process. Suddenly, we are given choices. He picks Hillary, say. Hey, wait a minute, I think
he should have picked "X" instead.

I think everyone had their own vision of what life would be like when a Dem took over. Mine, was too idealistic. I thought
as soon as one did, the person would do everything I pictured a progressive would do. I thought we would jam our
ideas through like the repukes did. Hey, we were in charge !

But, like the stages of grief, I came to the sad realization that this was not going to happen. I came to accept
that this is not what is going to be and will have to live with it. Sure, it is disappointing. Obama will govern
from a different place than I had set in my mind. But, I also realize that with accommodation, things will get
done. But, what was once a state of 100% euphoria has now become a more pragmatic state of "this will be ok."

[Marrah_G]

10. So if Obama makes a bad decision are we not supposed to call him on it?

Some of you are taking anything said that is not cheerleading for him as "bashing".

I've like many of Obama's choices so far, but have also been infuriated by some. I won't sit down and shut up when I believe he is making a monumental error of judgement.

These kinds of posts, The ones wanting to require DU to be a cheerleading squad, ooing and ahhing over every picture thread and the cuteness factor of the future white house puppy, are the types of posts that I find truly disturbing.

For those of you unable to say:

"I think he fucked up. Here is why I think he fucked up. I hope fixed his fuckup instead of fucking up again."

Well I pity those people, frankly. They live in a delusional world of black and white.

[HamdenRice]

11. I agree and think there is a lot of mindless Obama bashing

It seems to me that people are bashing the Obama administration without having any evidence or criteria with which to bash. After all, he hasn't done anything yet. It seems to me that this is prejudicial, emotional bashing, not constructive criticism, because there is nothing yet to criticize.

It could be argued that announced intentions to appoint -- note: they aren't even appointments yet -- are the basis for criticism. But the appointees' jobs will be to carry out the Obama administration's policies. You might hate Robert Rubin and what he did at Citibank, but what he's going to do as Treasury will be what Obama tells him to do. Same with Hillary, Gates, et al.

If you want to bash Obama preemptively, that's your prerogative. But do it on an appropriate site, like FreeRepublic.

[Runcible Spoon]

13. "he hasn't done anything yet"

the FUCK he hasn't. It's really scary that you believe that. :nuke: You can't just write off cabinet appointments because you have some fantasy that they are going to somehow kowtow to Obama's every whim and have absolutely NO influence beyond carrying out his agenda. As if Obama is some god who doesn't need advisement and support. He can't do everything himself. Whether you're in denial or not, these people are going to have an impact on the way things are run.

Aside from that, Obama has unveiled large chunks of his agenda for early review and feedback, and a lot of us think his primary activities are also fair game. He may change timbre to some degree, but he is still the same politician we voted for.

I have seen you tirelessly bash those who criticize Obama, but ironically Obama has called on us all to be active and vocal in the process and so you're actually going against the grain of his core beliefs in the people's place and responsibility in their own government.

In sum, IF YOU CAN COMPLIMENT HIM ON SOMETHING, YOU CAN CRITICIZE HIM ON THE SAME THING. See how that works? "Oh no, you can't compliment him, he's not president yet". :crazy:

[HamdenRice]

16. "cabinet appointments" -- what cabinet appointments? I don't remember any confirmation hearings

As for his agenda, from what I've read, it's the biggest Keynesian economic package since Franklin Delano Roosevelt's New Deal.

IMPEACH THE MUTHERFU**KER ALREADY!11! FDR was a capitalist TOOL, just like Obama will be!!11!

[Runcible Spoon]

17. appointments have been announced, and soon they will be (ostensibly) confirmed.

You can quibble semantics all you want, but this is how the vast majority of people and media refer to them. Your second point boggles me, I made no judgments of the package, I just mentioned that it was unveiled for consideration and feedback.

As for the rest of your post, completely bizarre and having no bearing to anything I said. As far as I know, there was one single impeachment post, and I had nothing to do with that thread, and I certainly don't agree and have said nothing to make anyone think I DO agree.

Really, is this the best you can do? Please don't strain anything with your Righteous Keyboard of Fury.

[Runcible Spoon]

12. renaming the forums will do (and has done in the past) JACK SHIT

While my biggest gripe with DU is the incessant screaming that anyone criticizing Obama STFU (and I find the pony thing ridiculously stupid and I cringe in embarrassment for whomever types it every time I see it), I'm not crying out for the admins to come and change things to make me happy.

As far as the Impeach Obama "fringe element", there was what? Like one post? Out of tens of thousands of registered members, you get one fruit loop. Not bad. Let's not overblow the argument here.

I also recognize that some people think criticism of Obama is too much and too soon. Unfortunately, Obama disagrees with you and open discourse is essential for the health of democracy and was the whole reason for DU's birth. Just because the Obama has a (D) after his name does not change the fundamental premise.

In sum, DU will continue to be DU as long as people care enough to post here. Changing the forum names won't do anything; there will always be one or two hot forums and the others will remain marginal to those who seek them out. The only thing that could sink this website would be the implementation of stricter rules; some forums are already grumbling and at some point trying to moderate posts in every forum will reach critical mass. Those are my thoughts on it anyway, but I don't think there's really anything wrong with DU and we're not going anywhere.

If you have an issue, ignore and hide thread are your friends.

[Balderdash]

14. If you define "Democratic loyalty" as blind devotion

no way. That has never been what DU is about. Unlike Republicans,
Democrats can handle or should be able, discussion and critical thinking.

[scheming daemons]

15. Take back your comment about Millard Fillmore.....

....He doesn't deserve to be lumped in with Bush and Buchanan.

;-)

[NoPasaran]

18. Yeah, people are always running down Fillmore

But Franklin Pierce seems to get a mindless blank check!