Will NCLB be overturned or will the Dems cave to right wing anti-teacher groups?

[redstate_democrat]

NCLB has been a disaster. Will Dems overturn this catastrophe or will they continue the status quo with some so-called incremental funding for the mandates? NCLB places more emphasis on testing, rather than teaching, IMO. It is an abomination. It is injurious to the development of the curious mind in children. It does nothing but peddle rote teaching and learning. Standardized testing is not an accurate barometer of overall intelligence. It simply gauges knowledge. And knowledge, in this day and age, with technology, is easier to come by than raw intelligence. I think our schools should be more interested in developing thinking minds, rather than the regurgitation of facts and figures.

Will this abomination be overturned? I heard that the new Sec of Education is a real piece of school privatizing work.

[Goblinmonger]

1. NCLB has to be overturned

there is no possible way a state can meet the 100% profeciency requirement that is knocking at the door. In a year or two, the cost to states to even try to meet the requirements will be much higher than the amount of money the feds give and the states will tell the feds to keep their money and fuck off.

I don't think the republican wet dream or privatized schools will come from NCLB.

[redstate_democrat]

2. I can't believe what a total failure Repukes are when it comes to ... everything.

What was Bush's deadline for total proficiency? Threatening to shut down schools only to replace them with more failing schools can't be the answer. How about we actually take out the punishment and replace it with rewards? That always seems to work in other areas. Punishing schools and teachers for things they don't have 100% control over is ludicrous. Let's reduce class sizes in under performing schools, fund more teacher training, invest in school technology and infrastructure, invest in parents as teachers, invest in school to home help, invest in tutoring, etc. This funding should come from the Federal government. The states can't afford to do everything that needs to be done for our schools.

[SoxFan]

3. Right wingers like Ted Kennedy and George Miller?

Let me guess. You or someone in your immediate family is a current or former teacher or school administrator.

[Goblinmonger]

5. So make your case

Defend NCLB, then. Start by explaining to me how 100% of students in the country can be proficient by 2013. Including SLD students. Once you explain that, I have a few more questions for you.

[seaker]

4. Privatizing...

Seems to be the wave of the educational future. Why do $$$'s fear an educated citizenry?

[Goblinmonger]

6. If we no longer have public schools

and all schools are privatized, we are doomed.

[NYC_SKP]

7. Reform will come more easily with Obama in da house.

It's no longer "cool" to support NCLB, which wouldn't have come about without Bush, IMO.

We know OBAMA is not in favor of the current state of education, he's VERY likely to lead a majority of congress toward favorable reforms in public education.

From http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/:

No Child Left Behind Left the Money Behind: The goal of the law was the right one, but unfulfilled funding promises, inadequate implementation by the Education Department and shortcomings in the design of the law itself have limited its effectiveness and undercut its support. As a result, the law has failed to provide high-quality teachers in every classroom and failed to adequately support and pay those teachers.

:patriot:

[FrenchieCat]

8. I don't believe that Obama ran on overturning it.....

but rather reforming it.

Video of Obama's giving his thoughts on NCLB during his Des Moines Register Interview in Dec 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsVimwm6xQ4

July 2007 speech on Education and NCLB
http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/ObamaNCLB_2.htm

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/

[madfloridian]

9. Obama will continue NCLB with funding....that won't solve the inherent problem

with the program.

He also supports charter schools.

http://www.ohea.org/GD/Templates/Pages/OEA/OEADetail.aspx?page=3&TopicRelationID=102&Content=12138

[redstate_democrat]

12. I hate that he supports charter schools.

[FrenchieCat]

18. He supports "Public" Charter schools......

Meaning Charter schools as part of the Public School system,
not outside of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfoRmaYz6xw

[rwheeler31]

10. I agree No child behind left is a disaster.

Those of us who try to encourage imagination are castigated.

[redstate_democrat]

11. I know

:hug:

[seaker]

13. Not a disaster

It has created dialogue and given educators 'teeth' to express foundational concerns. It was myopic in it's scope.

[Fire1]

14. Obama proposes raising teacher's compensation and is also

a proponent of charter schools. So far, these charter schools are sponsored/subsidized mostly by universities, that can barely
meet their own costs (proven by the drastic hick in tuition). So, how does he intend to do this? Are these schools going to be privitized independent charters with hefty tuition costs, run by corporations?

[Fire1]

15. sorry, 'hike' in tuition. Didn't proof read.

[seaker]

16. Historically,

It was industry that was a huge in fostering and financing an educated work force.

[FrenchieCat]

19. He supports Charter schools that are part of the public school system.....

not privately owned or funded by anything different from all other school.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdHBiBy96I8&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfoRmaYz6xw

[seaker]

21. Yep

He does...how does the idea of Charter Schools feed into the shortcomings of NCLB?

[FrenchieCat]

23. Charter Public Schools

Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama and Biden will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama and Biden believe teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama and Biden will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/

Support High-Quality Schools and Close Low-Performing Charter Schools: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will double funding for the Federal Charter School Program to support the creation of more successful charter schools. An Obama-Biden administration will provide this expanded charter school funding only to states that improve accountability for charter schools, allow for interventions in struggling charter schools and have a clear process for closing down chronically underperforming charter schools. An Obama-Biden administration will also prioritize supporting states that help the most successful charter schools to expand to serve more students.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/

[seaker]

33. If you happen to know

Does it provide for our students for whom a collegiate scripted path does not fit or will their round educational pegs be pressed into the square hole?

[NYC_SKP]

37. Obama realizes that not all kids are meant to go to a four year college: (link)

And here's a little gem (see point #5):

Sen. Barack Obama American Competitiveness Summit
June 26, 2008
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Statement by Eli Broad, Founder of The Broad Foundations
Many Americans remember the good old days when the United States was #1 in high school graduation rates.
That was 40 years ago. Today, we have dropped to #21 among industrialized nations.
If we want to regain our competitive position in the world… if we want to maintain our standard of living… we
need to revamp public education.

There are six things America needs to do to revamp our public schools.

First, more learning time.
We are short-changing our students. American students get only two-thirds of the academic hours of their
international counterparts. Our students spend six hours a day, 180 days a year in school, while countries like
South Korea educate their students for 225 days, and Italian students attend class 210 days.
After school, while students in other countries do homework, our children spend 6 to 7 hours a day watching
television and playing video games. We need a longer school year and a longer school day.

Second, better teaching.
Countries like Finland, Singapore and Canada recruit their teachers from the top third of college graduates. We
don’t.
We need to give the teaching profession more respect.
We need to offer financial incentives to teachers and schools who outperform.
And we need differential pay for math and science teachers and for those who teach in our most challenging
schools.

Third, stronger American standards.
Children need to know English, math, science and history regardless of whether they are from Pittsburgh,
Pensacola, or Portland. Why should high school students in the State of Washington be required to take only
two years of math, while students in Ohio must take four years? We need a national curriculum at least in math
and science.

Fourth, public school choice.
Different students need different education options and choices. To make smart choices, parents need useable
data so they can determine which public or public charter school best fits the needs of their child.

Fifth, 21st century vocational and technical education.
We want all children to go to college. But by the 8th or 9th grade, many students do not see college as an
option… so they don’t see the point of staying in school and graduating.
To reduce the dropout rate, we must offer these children 21st century vocational education so they have access
to a better life and high-paying jobs…like auto mechanics, electricians, plumbers and utility workers…jobs that
can’t be outsourced.

Sixth, governors and big city mayors must be held accountable for educating our children.
As the nation’s key education leaders, governors and mayors need the authority to implement policies that will
dramatically improve their state’s public schools – and they need to be held accountable for improving student
achievement and closing achievement gaps.

The next President of the United States will have to tackle a number of competitiveness challenges – the
economy, national security, energy, healthcare and education.
We need an education system that prepares our students for life – and our country -- for success in the 21st
century.
This is an American issue that affects all of us… and we need to be party-blind when it comes to educating our
children.
* * *
This is the html version of the file http://broadeducation.org/asset/1042-2008-0626.pdf

:patriot:

[NYC_SKP]

22. Most of the charter schools I work with in CA are public.

Financed and run by districts or county offices of education.

And most of them are more successful than their traditional counterparts.

I'm afraid they sometimes represent a threat to the union and to the status quo/school establishment.

I like the things I'm hearing from our PE on education.

:patriot:

[madfloridian]

24. "they sometimes represent a threat to the union and to the status quo/school establishment. "

That's the problem right there. Unions are vital, and the school establishment is not always an enemy.

It seems to be popular to make teachers the bad guys.

I resent that.

I do not agree with Obama on education. He is following the conservative Democrats policies to a T.

[NYC_SKP]

28. Undue pressure on the school establishment makes them the way they are...

Strict, monolithic, overburdened in paperwork, standards, more paperwork, bureaucracy.

The school establishment itself is not evil, it's the things I list above that make teachers and administrators crazy, and the kids suffer.

And unions are vital, I'm a member of the CTA, but they're also sometimes present problems.

As I said upstream, it's going to take time. I'll add that it's going to take cooperation among all of these entities.

In California, you can add the problem of Proposition 13 that has radically reduced school funding over the years.

[NYC_SKP]

17. Everyone thinks they know about teaching because they were once students.

So says my public school administrator sister (Hi, Julie!). And this is like saying one can be a doctor because they've been a patient.

For the record, I know that four of the folks in this thread, and maybe more, are now or have been public school teachers.

And I'm one of them, I had an eight year stint in the classroom fulltime and continue to work with teachers and kids, but not in the classroom.

NCLB is nothing more than an ideal, that it was passed as anything MORE than an ideal, as an unfunded mandate, is reprehensible.

Obama supports the vision of achievement by all, but by no means does he accept it as it's written.

As to charter schools, they are not all the same. Some represent very successful experiments in educational environments for the students and the teachers. Other charter schools have been established to skate around burdens that exist for mainstream public schools.

Change is needed, change is on the way, but reforming a bureaucracy this large and complex will not happen quickly or easily.

:patriot:

[Fire1]

25. Unfortunately, it is an 'unfunded mandate' that most districts

take seriously, despite it's dismal failure. Superintendents have been directed to adhere to it's policies, as continued funding is contingent upon test results.

[NYC_SKP]

29. I think it was Utah that say "Fuck You" at first to the Feds on this matter.

That was the right thing to do.

[madfloridian]

26. Well, now, after 30 years plus teaching....do you think I have credibililty?

Just wondering,

[NYC_SKP]

30. You? Totally!!! You and I have gone back and forth on education, as I recall.

And we agreed on some things and not on others, if I remember correctly.

We disagree on charter schools, for example, but we have different experiences with these (I'm guessing), and I'm open to school "experimentation", where a small group is allowed to go at it differently and use alternate means of assessment, thus avoiding the very tests that are bringing teachers down, at least around here.

Days and days are lost from the very limited 180 school days to standardized mandated testing.

Teachers are being told to teach language arts and math only, told NOT to do any hands-on science, to adhere to adopted texts, we see more direct instruction, drill and kill.

It's killing classrooms, killing our kids, killing our future.

[redstate_democrat]

31. Right on.

:fistbump:

But I still have a problem with charter schools. Maybe it's just the schools I've come into contact with. I have a friend whose child was enrolled in a few and they were a total disaster.

[NYC_SKP]

34. Cool!

For all I'm hearing against them, there must be some problem charter schools, but none in my "territory" (most of California).

What cities were these problem schools in?

It would be interesting to learn more about why they're failures.

[seaker]

Fear

of job loss and you know what goes down hill...it lands on our students...In spite of this they continue to strive to achieve and learn...Minimizing the fear could reduce educational constraints, provide for a more inclusive educational community for all students.

[rwheeler31]

20. All these money people talk think out of the box.

They hate creative people and the people who generate ideas.

[bigwillq]

27. I hope it's overturned.

I have a few friends who are teachers and they all think the program is ineffective.

[elleng]

32. It is not a complete disaster,

and 'we' should not act/react to what Dems do as if it is. It needs a lot of work; let them get to it.

And DON'T wrap every issue in handy/tidy sound-bytes: 'new Sec of Education is a real piece of school privatizing work' Life and politics just ISN'T THAT SIMPLE, and people here should know that.

[madfloridian]

35. Yes, it is a complete disaster.

It has damaged our schools and our children so very much.

Yes, there is privatization of schools going on. In some areas they are being upfront about it.

In others they are going a round about way at first.

[Fire1]

38. Absolutely. 'Teaching,' has gone out of the window. It's all

rote memorization, test taking and contrary to the name, many many are left behind.

[Fire1]

39. Absolutely. 'Teaching,' has gone out of the window. It's all

rote memorization, test taking and contrary to the name, many many are left behind.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. They will cave

I have talked to 2 congressmen about this. They both hate it and said most Democrats in Congress also hate it. But they are afraid of being accused of not wanting to hold our schools accountable if they vote to throw it out.