Hillary has a sense of humor

[sandnsea]

Doesn't anybody remember her and McCain and their vodka drinking contest?

She's 60 years old. Some of you ladies who are reaching that age know exactly what she was thinking when she saw that picture, and that she was probably laughing hysterically.

Everything that relates to sex IS NOT sexist.

Geez.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Feeding watermelon to an Obama cut-out would have set this place on fire.

I'm glad people - and HRC - are not upset by this photograph, but the gap between what is racist and what is sexist is huge here on DU.

[elkston]

2. That's because white women still have more power than *ANY* black (eom)

[Balderdash]

25. Even if that were true

does that mean that sexism and misogyny should be ok? We all have to watch our every thought when it comes to racism but women are fair game? And not just fair game but we should all just stfu and enjoy it. Bullshit. Hillary has a sense of humor but there isn't anything funny about that cardboard cutout and I haven't heard her laughing.

[mkultra]

30. i agree

no matter who is high and who is low, we should all be respectful of each other. Its the right thing to do. And for those that need a better reason, tomorrow, it could all be upside down.

[Captain Hilts]

38. Check out the latest book on Alfred Hitchcock for the varying ways he abused the women...

in his movies.

Really screwed up stuff.

[mkultra]

56. like what?

whats the brief?"

[saracat]

52. BS. All men of any color still have more power than any women.

[joshcryer]

77. So fucking true. Women are the most oppressed people on the planet.

[LaydeeBug]

83. bullshit. nt

[thewiseguy]

3. Nice imagination there

[Beacool]

5. Just like in the primaries.

Anyone daring to question Obama was labeled a racist, but anyone could say any demeaning thing about Hillary and it would be cause for much merriment.

Let's say this was a cut out of Michelle and Hillary's speech writer and another guy wearing a Clinton Staff t-shirt were fondling it. Then let's see how amused many here would be about it.

[elkston]

6. Yeah but that would just be "sexist" not "racist".

The watermelon thing Mookie mentioned was based on race.

[Beacool]

10. It would be definitely sexist.

Even though someone would probably throw in the race issue for good measure.

[polmaven]

37. If the Clinton staff members

were white, they most certainly WOULD be called racist. Probably before they were called sexist.

[mkultra]

47. thats as foolish as saying that

the main reason the photo was called sexist was because he was a man.

[mkultra]

14. being simply based on sex or based on race does NOT make it sexism or racism

sex and race are present factors. If they had dressed Hillary like a whore, then it would be sexism.

[Beacool]

23. Seriously, why do you think that fondling her effigy is not sexist?

Since your profile says "undeclared" I'm not sure if you're a guy or gal, but as a woman who has been fondled inappropriately when living overseas (more prevalent in other countries than here), let me tell you that it leaves you angry and humiliated. Granted this was just a cardboard cut out and I doubt that they would dare to attempt to do this in real life, but it is still a sexist gesture on the part of Favreau and his friend.

[mkultra]

28. well, i certainly dont want to minimize what happened to you

unwanted sexual advances and groping are assault. Ive never been in your position and i hope i never am.

Im simply confining the the focus to what is or is not sexism.

I think that some people confuse being disrespectful with sexism. some of my lower posts explain my point.

[Beacool]

39. In other countries, it's a more common occurrence.

Here the perpetrator would get arrested. I've lived in Europe and Latin America and from my teenage years on I had several groping incidents. Once a guy grabbed my breast while passing me by on the street, I was a teenager then and too stunned to react. Nowadays I would have chased him and kicked his ass. Which brings me to ass grabbing and pinching on crowded public transportation, very common in Italy and the Latin American countries. In other words, I've been more felt up than a juicy summertime peach. I can laugh now about it, but it was not funny at the time.

[sandnsea]

43. Fondling is usually fun

Maybe the problem is that you're seeing this through your abused eyes and not through the eyes of people who are just having a good time, which sometimes includes men and women fondling each other. Or maybe everybody who goes to Mardi Gras is sexist too.

[mkultra]

55. mardi gras is a perfect model for clarifing sexism

the event is knee deep in sex, including grouping and grabbing, and lots of sexual advances.

Is anyone at this event guilty of sexist behavior?

[Captain Hilts]

59. No. They know when they go that will happen. Again, time and place. nt

[Captain Hilts]

58. "Fondling is fun"!?! It's not an act of respect. There is a time and place for everything and -

this is NOT it.

[sandnsea]

62. Which is totally different than sexist

Getting drunk and mooning a camera at an office party isn't appropriate either - but it's not sexist. It is something that happens on occasion however, and shouldn't ruin anybody's career.

[Beacool]

73. It's only fun if all participants are willing and able.

[Titus Andronicus]

74. Fondling needs to be legalized. Straight laced women need to just relax and

enjoy it.

LOL

[mkultra]

12. still disrespectful, but not sexist.

[elkston]

16. Yeah, I agree. Sometimes sex is just sex. We must not deny that we are sexual beings.

[Beacool]

27. Hmmm, me thinks that someone has a "thing" for the fair Hillary.

Am I right?

Confession is good for the soul.

[elkston]

33. Well ...

I'll just say that I think Hillary has one of the warmest, most genuine smiles I've seen.

[Beacool]

40. Yes, she does and that's precisely her private persona.

Have you ever met her? She's very pretty with the deepest blue eyes and long eyelashes. One of my friends said that she reminded him of a porcelain doll. She also has a great sense of humor and laughs easily. I'm going to see her on Monday at the NYC event that will also feature Bill and America Ferrera. Bill is also one sexy man and quite the charmer, together they make a stunning looking couple.

[elkston]

42. Never met her. Would like to. Have fun at your event Monday!

[Beacool]

72. I'm sorry that you have never met her.

I'm sure that you would like her if you did. She can be as much a charmer as Bill.

Thanks for the good wishes about Monday. I'll tell you all about it afterward.

[Rebubula]

53. Personally...

...I would like to snuggle with her.

Power is sexy...

Sorry to anyone offended by my comments...suck it up, Hilary is sexy and beautiful. She is bound to be desired by many.

[Beacool]

70. Nothing wrong with that.

I think that George Clooney is damn hot, we all have some people who we like and wouldn't throw out of our beds for eating crackers.

As for Hillary, during the campaign the two guys who had a serious case of the hots for her were all of 25 and 22 years old respectively. They were so besotted that it was actually cute to watch.

Ahhhh lust, best next thing to love.

[sandnsea]

7. Putting an apron and an iron

on a Hillary cut-out would have been sexist. Smooching an Obama cut-out would not have been sexist and neither is this.

[ieoeja]

11. Great answer! n/t

[mkultra]

9. the test for sexism is the same as the test for racism

if it forwards or perpetuates a sterotype.

If we are talking about the photo of the Hillary cutout, then it fails this test unless you twist.

Oddly, i find that most folks that are super sensitive about sexism directed at women tend to also have plenty of anti-male comments. the excuse is always that men have the advantage thus sexism against them is "OK." I understand that logic but i think that if you want an end to sexism, or racism for that matter, you should avoid practicing it whenever possible.

Of course some people extend this argumemnt as a justification to stop Affirmative action or womens assistance groups which is also twisting. Helping a disadvantaged group doesn't harm the advantages group in any sense but that they must give up their advantage and practice equality.

None the less, i would be interested in hearing how pretending to group a cutout of any female forwards a stereotype. Its disrespectful of Hillary and her Family but other than that, it simply points out that men are attracted to women. Which is just a fact.

[Captain Hilts]

13. Hillary cutout groped as a sex object/objectified is not sexism?

[mkultra]

19. its a fine line i agree.

but i don't really think it goes to the level of objectifying her. It was clear they where acting like she was partying with them. Partying is not a negative female stereotype.

but i can see your point and i guess peoples feelings on it are based in whether or not these kids actions where sufficient to reducing Hillary to merely a sexual object and no more.

Women are the object of men's sexual desire, this is just a natural side effect of being heterosexual. the negative comes when a man view a woman as nothing more.

[Captain Hilts]

21. I agree with you to a certain extent...

and I'm glad The Powers That Be are shrugging it off.

But, the perception gap between sexism and racism here on DU is significant and that's what I'm noting.

[mkultra]

29. perhaps, i think the same mistake is often made about racism

[Captain Hilts]

31. In some settings that probably is the case. I don't doubt it. nt

[Balderdash]

35. As someone else pointed out, groping Hillary in effigy

is sexist and I don't have any more problem with men than I do with women who shrug this stuff off and say it's ok, it's not ok. Just like a picture of Obama and watermelon would not be ok. It's not going to be ok until people get how degrading that damn picture is.

[mkultra]

78. well, as ive said, its clearly disrespectful but probably not sexist.

it is very disrespectful but i certainly wouldn't want anyone fired over it. If, on the other hand they ad actually done something i consider to be sexists or racists, such as dressing Hillary up like a whore or putting a watermelon with Barack, i would say it was time to release.

[Mushroom]

54. It depends on the motive and intent

of the male gropers. Did they feel male superiority and ultimate power over a powerless woman? Did they want to portray playing party predators to a drunk dumb bitch for shits and giggles? Did they want to pull the picture out someday and reminisce about the good old days of putting an important woman in her place, behind her uppity, harpy, haggy, ambitious, conniving back?

As far as I'm concerned, if they had no problem disrespecting a woman by groping her likeness, they are sexists and they know they are sexists. I think it is sexist when women are expected to drag around painful, thick body armor to "cope" with the harsh realities of life that we won't address, such as male aggression.

It is just a fact that I'm attracted to men and they know I would never do anything to disrespect their bodies by sexually humiliating them and asking someone to take a picture of that humiliation for posterity - I respect myself. People confuse self-respect with being thin-skinned or no fun. Conveniently so. I think it is sexist to expect women to drop their personal standards.

[mkultra]

80. well, the key in yoru argument is the "as far as im concerned" portion

Your concern does not make for reality and you can assume whatever manner of imaginery storyline into the photo you wish. The fact is this: no stereotype, no sexism. If by male aggression you mean less than unwanted sexual advances, then yes, you are required to cope with males in existence. That is neither sexists or disrespectful but rather fact. How you cope with aggression is your choice, but it exists and you must cope with it.

I don't think mean worry about being raped or attacked because they have learned to deal with other male aggression.

It is also not sexist to expect anyone to change there acceptance level. Again, no stereotype, no sexism. Being pissed at men is just be pissed. that is all.

[Mushroom]

88. Holy Shit

[TexasObserver]

45. You're comparing watermelons and melons.

[Captain Hilts]

60. I really don't care what a man thinks or belittles with humor. nt

[mkultra]

81. ahh the double edge of sexism.

[jenmito]

48. Apples and oranges (so to speak). Eating watermelon is a stereotype of Black people. Being

groped is not a stereotype of ANY women. Two totally different things. The equivalent of that guy "groping" Hillary's cardboard cutout would be equal to a girl sticking her tongue into the ear of an Obama cutout.

[TexasObserver]

76. Agreed. They're not comparable, even remotely.

There is nothing inherently demeaning about groping a cardboard cutout in a suggestive manner. It implies lust for the target, either real or fake lust.

The Obama watermelon thing would clearly be intended as a racially demeaning image, intended to demean Obama and all blacks.

Some people attempt to grossly over impose sexism as the key element of far too many interactions.

[jenmito]

79. Thank you...

perfect explanation.

[qwlauren35]

82. Funny. Yes, Watermelon.

But a picture of him eating fried chicken wouldn't have bugged me.

Nor would a pie in the face. Funny.

If you had painted blackface on him, I admit that I would have gone ape-sh*t.

Here's the awkward thing about sexism vs. racism. It the privacy of one's bedroom, it is perfectly okay to grope one's wife. My husband does it all the time. Heck, I do it back. Groping is a normal human behavior.

If someone had reached his or her arms around the Obama cut-out and held a piece of watermelon, now that I think about it, I think I'd let it go. Because eating watermelon is normal.

Blackface isn't normal. A noose isn't normal. Those would offend me.

With that said, groping the Clinton cut-out was in very poor taste. However, if Clinton can forgive Jesse Jackson for wanting to cut his nuts off, Clinton can forgive a campaign staffer for groping a cut-out.

[Beacool]

4. Yes, Hillary has a great sense of humor

and yes, that picture was sexist. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[sandnsea]

8. Smooching an Obama cut-out would not be sexist

Sometimes things are just funny and there's nothing more to it.

[Beacool]

15. But grabbing his cut out's "balls" would be inappropriate

if I were Hillary's main speech writer.

I work for a Fortune 100 company, if I did a similar thing to the cut out of the CEO, I don't think I would have a job much longer. At the very least, I would be sent to some sensitivity classes.

[elkston]

18. Thing is though, men are more likely to laugh it off, or even be flattered.

We enjoy being sexualized as it reinforces virility. Doubly so if its done by a good looking woman (as I suspect you are, Beacool )

[mkultra]

24. many women enjoy being physically appreciated

just up to a limit.

[sandnsea]

26. A young man grabbing my 50 year old boob?

lol, my reaction fluctuates between "if he only knew" and "wow, the girls are still pretty good".

[Captain Hilts]

32. That's not how I'd react. nt

[Balderdash]

36. Wow, no wonder you don't have a problem with the

the picture. If someone other then the one person who I allow to touch me touched me in that way, they'd find themselves hunting for their damned teeth or singing soprano forever.

[sandnsea]

41. OMG, it's a picture, not my actual boob

Some of you people have some real issues because I'm a prude.

[Balderdash]

51. Yeah, I have real issues with sexism. There is a world of

difference between inviting and enjoying sexual attention and being sexualized for someone else amusement. I don't think it's that hard a concept to get.

[mwei924]

57. Women also do that to men.

It's not really serious.

[Beacool]

34. Yeah, guys would probably think that it's hilarious

and would perhaps suggest that the woman in question do it for real and not to their cardboard cut out.



Thank you for the compliment kind sir, I'm sure that you also clean up good.

[mkultra]

20. all true, but still not sexism, disrespectful though.

[sandnsea]

22. lol, that would be funny too

Lighten the hell up.

[mwei924]

44. If that were the case, I still think women would be more upset that men.

Guys would just think its funny.

[Beacool]

75. Alas, you're right.

It probably would be a guy's dream to have some chick caressing his privates, even if it's his cardboard doppelganger.

Ahhhh, men...........

[BuyingThyme]

17. Sexy?

[mwei924]

46. Anyone remember that West Wing episode...

..where Sam gives Ainsley Hayes a compliment about her appearance and an annoying woman who overhears it starts lecturing him about how he's sexist and stuff. And then Ainsley said she didn't care.

Well, I feel like this forum is like that annoying woman right now.

[Balderdash]

49. You clearly don't want to have to respect women, it's too hard

and too much fun to be disrespectful and sexist.

[mwei924]

50. I'm a girl and I don't give a shit.

No one's oppressing me because of that picture. I'm not gonna lose a job because of it. I don't even find it sexist because girls do the same thing to guys.

[Captain Hilts]

63. This is the future Sec. of State. CONTEXT is everything. They're not in a bar at 1:55am.nt

[beachmom]

67. Is the Secretary of State's power being obstructed? Is her status being questioned?

The truth is, she holds the power of deciding how badly this guy is vilified in the press. So far, anyway, she made a joke, so clearly she has "pardoned" him of any wrong doing. I think if she were silent, that would have been a rebuke. She chose to cut him some slack.

[Captain Hilts]

68. I don't remember any other Sec. of State being treated like this...other than Condi Rice. nt

[mwei924]

71. People were way meaner to Condi, but since she's on the other team, I guess it pales..

[JuniperLea]

86. I've embraced every time I've had my boobs grabbed...

And if I didn't like it, or the person doing the grabbing, I would have embraced the look of pain on their face as they grabbed their nutsack as they howled in pain and tried to pick themselves up off the ground.

[mkultra]

90. right on, its time to stop whining and start living

[Balderdash]

87. I can see that you don't give a shit and you also don't have a clue..

[mwei924]

89. Just cause I don't freak out over stupid facebook pictures, doesn't mean I'm clueless..

It just means I have a different sensitivity meter than you. I didn't realize that we ALL had to be offended at the same things.

[mkultra]

91. if you dont, i guess they will tag that as sexist too.

not wearing underwear? sexist
wearing underwear? sexist
voting for hillary? sexist
not voting for hillary? sexist.


my suggestion to you all is read a book. Start with the god damn dictionary.

[mwei924]

94. For Christ's sake, I've never seen people so intent on making others feel offended .

[mkultra]

96. your right. my appologies.

but reading is still good for people

[Captain Hilts]

61. I think the young fellow is "annoying." And I know he's stupid for putting it on facebook. nt

[mwei924]

65. The other guy put it on facebook..

And bitching about everything being part of some sexist agenda is annoying.

[mkultra]

98. bingo! do we know that he put it on facebook?

[beachmom]

64. The PC aspect to the Left has never appealed to me.

A close relative of mine is an engineer largely operating in a mostly male world. Another friend of mine was a pilot in the Air Force. Both have thick skins and are not so frigid.

I did not find the picture offensive in the least. But I am also not one to scream "Sexist" or "Sexual harassment" in my own personal life just because a guy at my work tells a dirty joke.

To me sexism is 1) Doubting the ability of a woman solely based on her gender and limiting her career options or power, or 2) Someone behaving inappropriately around a woman to the point of discomfort, whether they are more powerful in status or just in physical power.

Hillary, of course, is not present at the party, so it would be absurd to suggest she is being made to feel uncomfortable or being deprived of power or opportunity.

I have no idea what Hillary thinks of this. She comes from a different generation than me.

[mwei924]

66. If someone tells me I can't do a job because I'm a woman, I'd be offended..

.. but a guy makes a joke about tits or something, I'd probably laugh.

[mkultra]

92. that would be sexist!

it perpetuates the stereotype that women are stupid.

[mwei924]

95. No it perpetuates the stereotype that women have boobs. Which is not stereotype.

[mkultra]

97. i was talking about the job thing, not the boobs.

[mwei924]

99. Right, my bad.

[Captain Hilts]

69. Oh my dog - someone has labelled those who don't like it as "FRIGID"!!!!!!!!

We have a winnah!!!!!!!!!!

[mkultra]

93. all praise dog!

[JuniperLea]

84. Sometimes it's really cool getting your boob grabbed...

[kid a]

85. i agree and would go so far as to say he probably emailed it to her for fun