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What's the deal up in here...Are you folks NUTS or what?

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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:10 PM
Original message
What's the deal up in here...Are you folks NUTS or what?
Issue One: Cardboard grope-gate.

It is a big deal, which is too say it is at least as big a deal as the average DU melt-down. It's roughly 10 times as offensive as most of the primary era nontroversies that had people shooting blood out of their eyes like enraged gila monsters. If there was a picture of Howard Wolfson doing that to a cut-out of Michelle Obama there would be a hundred "I cannot stop crying" posts.

In the world of people who are not recreational outrage junkies and haven't established a track record of pitching fainting fits over imaginary bullshit it is, however, not a big deal.

Issue Two: Caroline Kennedy.

For Pete's sake... Hillary Clinton has no qualifications whatsoever to serve as Secretary of State but Caroline Kennedy was eminently qualified to be Ambassador to the UN because... well because she was so cute when she was three years old and her family has suffered so much and... and what?

So now Caroline should taking over Hillary's senate seat because... well, because Hillary has RFK's old seat and that's a big outrage so it should be reclaimed by the Kennedy family because we do, after all, live in the fucking 12th century.

Issue Three: The Kennedys in general.

Anyone who is "sick of the Clintons" and actually argued seriously that we needed to get away from having Bushes and Clintons on the ballot, yet just loves all things Kennedy really needs some intellectual consistency lessons.

There are people who quake with outrage cry hot uncontrollable tears when they think of what Bill Clinton did to that poor waif in the White House while pining for Camelot. Excuse me, Jack Kennedy lined women up like cattle to hump them sequentially in the White House pool while Jackie sat upstairs with pillows pressed to her ears trying to remember why she married such a disgusting person. JFK had his birthday party hosted by his mistress on TV. I am hard pressed to think of anyone in politics who treated women more contemptuously or shamed his wife more thoroughly.

Fortunately I just don't give the first shadow of a damn about the family scandals of politicians. Any politicians.

And all that stuff people imagined Hillary would do in 2008 to ruin the convention and destroy the Democratic Party? Ted Kennedy actually DID all that stuff in 1980... for real.

I think the Clintons and Kennedys are all pains in the ass to one degree or another. They're also some talented people who have done more good than harm on balance.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. You've bowled a strike with me. Recommended. nt
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NYDem Observer Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well Said...
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countingbluecars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. I thought we got this out of our
collective DU system during the primaries. Guess not.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Clinton won't resign from the seat until confirmed
That's more than two months from now.
As far as cardboard goes, it can be recycled.


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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. On 'balance' this nation didn't lose much from Clinton deep-sixing all those outstanding matters
in IranContra, Iraqgate, BCCI and CIA drugrunning operations of GHWBush and his powerful cronies, did it? Gee....I can't think of a THING that hurt this nation in the long run...and...'on balance'....can you?
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. you're really going to be whining when nothing is done about Bush/Cheney...or are you? nt.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. May I ask why more of YOU choose to HAVE no accountability and ACCEPT it quietly
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 12:26 PM by blm
while you save your sneering for those who accept the RESPONSIBILITY of citizenship to protect our right to open government that is accountable to the people?
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. You have my 100% guarantee that Obama will not end the Bush/Cheney investigation.

This is a really easy one since there currently *is* no Bush/Cheney investigation.

Yes, blm will be unhappy with Obama for not starting an investigation. So will I. But there is a rather large difference between doing something you shouldn't and not doing something you should. The former actually established a bad precedent: overtly forgiving a previous administration's crimes on the grounds that ... we should forgive a previous administration's crimes?

While one of the reasons American Democracy has worked for the better is that our elected officials have for the most part not abused their offices going after their political enemies. Valid or not, any new investigation launched by the Obama Department of Justice into Bush/Cheney administrative actions will be viewed as partisan.

That said, I think I just made the argument for why we almost HAVE to investigate one issue of the past few years. The Federal Prosecutor Scandal is a case where our elected officials appear to have abused their offices going after their political enemies. So the very excuse I give for not going after Bush/Cheney, it undermines democracy, is the very reason we should investigate this case as it undermines democracy.

On the third day of Obama's presidency, Bush/Cheney gave to him...
- An economic depression
- Two quagmires
- And a Catch-22 in the Department of Justice.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. Poppy Bush was NEVER Clinton's political enemy.
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 02:42 PM by blm
And the only thing citizens have protecting what democracy we have LEFT is ACCOUNTABILITY.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. I implied, but forgot to specifically state ...

... that Clinton actually STOPPED an investigation that was underway before he took office. Clinton could have done nothing. Which is why I said what he actually did do was establishing a bad precedent by the new administration covering up for the prior one.


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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
43. I think for accountability's sake and to set rules going forward.
there will have to be some investigations on some of the wrongs done. Even if, for political reasons, they have to be more geared to finding out how things happened to avoid them happening again.

I hope that Obama really does reverse many of the Bush power grabs, restoring the Constitutional idea of checks and balances. (With the majorities the Democrats have this shouldn't be hard.)
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
42. Who signed the repeal of Glass-Steagall?(banking de-reg) Who signed the Telecom
Act of '96 (media consolidation)? Who pushed for MF Trade status for China? (tained goods, loss of middle class jobs) What president pushed for NAFTA?

The same one who did this to the poor people living in East Liverpool Ohio:



Ask Hillary About This Tonight. I Dare You.
by Zwoof

Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 03:40:46 AM PST

-snip

While I was writing the original piece on the history of this foul project, a new ruling from the Ohio EPA allowed this incinerator, located 1,100 feet from an elementary school, to accept even more hazardous waste (anthrax, radioactive waste, infectious medical waste and mixed hazardous waste from Hurricane Katrina) than the original permit that was shrouded in corruption and approved by the Clinton Administration

Clinton and Al Gore promised the residents of East Liverpool, Ohio that they would not allow this incinerator originally approved by Bush '41 to operate. However, a Clinton EPA appointee, recommended by his classmate Hillary Clinton, approved the permit.

This is a tangled tale of corporatism, broken promises and an environmental disaster waiting to happen.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/31/21045/9822/688/...

Here is a portion of activist/mother, Terri Swearingen's acceptance speech for the Goldman Environmental Prize, given April 14, 1997:



I am not a scientist or a Ph.D. I am a nurse and a housewife, but my most important credential is that I am a mother. In 1982, I was pregnant with our one and only child. That's when I first learned of plans to build one of the world's largest toxic waste incinerators in my community. When they began site preparation to begin building the incinerator in 1990, my life changed forever. I'd like to share with you some of the lessons I have learned from my experiences over the past seven years.

One of the main lessons I have learned from the WTI experience is that we are losing our democracy. How have I come to this sad realization? Democracy is defined by Merriam Webster as "government by the people, especially rule of the majority," and "the common people constituting the source of political authority." The definition of democracy no longer fits with the reality of what is happening in East Liverpool, Ohio. For one thing, it is on the record that the majority of people in the Ohio Valley do not want the WTI hazardous waste incinerator in their area, and they have been opposed to the project from its inception. Some of our elected officials have tried to help us, but the forces arrayed against us have been stronger than we or they had imagined. Public concerns and protests have been smothered with meaningless public hearings, voodoo risk assessment and slick legal maneuvering.

Government agencies that were set up to protect public health and the environment only do their job if it does not conflict with corporate interests. Our current reality is that we live in a "wealthocracy" big money simply gets what it wants. In this wealthocracy, we see three dynamics at play: corporations versus the planet, the government versus the people, and corporate consultants or "experts" versus common sense. In the case of WTI, we have seen all three.

The second lesson I have learned ties directly to the first, and that is that corporations can control the highest office in the land. When Bill Clinton and Al Gore came to the Ohio Valley, they called the siting of the WTI hazardous waste incinerator next door to a 400 student elementary school, in the middle of an impoverished Appalachian neighborhood, immediately on the bank of the Ohio River in a flood plain an "UNBELIEVABLE IDEA." They said we ought to have control over where these things are located. They even went so far as to say they would stop it. But then they didn't! What has been revealed in all this is that there are forces running this country that are far more powerful than the President and the Vice President. This country trumpets to the world how democratic it is, but it's funny that I come from a community that our President dare not visit because he cannot witness first hand the injustice which he has allowed in the interest of a multinational corporation, Von Roll of Switzerland. And the Union Bank of Switzerland. And Jackson Stephens, a private investment banker from Arkansas. These forces are far more relevant to our little town than the President of the United States! And he is the one who made it that way. He has chosen that path. We didn't choose it for him. We begged him to come to East Liverpool, but he refused. We begged the head of EPA to come, but she refused. She hides behind the clever maneuvering of lawyers and consultants who obscure the dangers of the reckless siting of this facility with theoretical risk assessments.

-snip

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/wti/et0897s17.html




There has always been something incongruous about Stephens Inc. Despite the Little rock firm's attempts to portray itself as a small- city operation that closes for the duck season and got fabulously lucky on a couple of down-home deals like Wal-Mart, it was, at the incinerator's inception, the ninth-largest investment bank in the country. Since it is not headquartered in New York, its dealings are local news, little noticed by the national press, even when they have national implications. And, as a source close to the company once remarked, "The farther you get from Arkansas, the better it looks."

Stephens Inc. was founded by Witt Stephens, a state legislator's son who parlayed a Depression-era belt-buckle, Bible, and municipal-bond business into an immense personal fortune. After his retirement in 1973, the company was run by his shy younger brother, Jackson (a classmate of Jimmy Carter's at the Naval Academy). Witt Stephens and Stephens Inc. did much to create the economic paradox that is modern Arkansas: a desperately poor state with a scant 2.3 million inhabitants that is nonetheless home to a number of wealthy companies. Without the financial assistance of the Stephens brothers, Sam Walton might have ended his days as the most innovative merchant in Bentonville. Stephens money was also important to the fortunes of enterprises as various as Tyson Foods and Linda Bloodworth-Thomason, the television producer and reigning First Friend. Stephens Inc. is an important client of the Rose law firm, whose chairman, C. Joseph Giroir, made Hillary Rodham Clinton a partner. And back in 1977, Stephens assisted BCCI's infiltration of the American banking system by brokering the latter's purchase of National Bank of Georgia stock held by Bert Lance, former President Jimmy Carter's friend and disgraced budget director.

Jackson Stephens (who turned over the reins to his son, Warren, in the late eighties) and his firm were both substantial contributors to the campaigns of Presidents Reagan and Bush (to the tune of at least $100,000 in 1980 and 1989), but they have been closer still to Bill Clinton (whom Witt Stephens had been known to call "that boy").

On two occasions, once when Clinton was running for reelection in Arkansas in 1990 and again in March 1992, when his battered presidential campaign was broke, the Stephens family saved Clinton's bacon with an infusion of money. Indeed, it may not be too much to say that their Worthen Bank's emergency $3.5 million line of credit saved the presidential campaign from extinction. --L.J.D.

-snip

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1993/11/davis.h...





Who is the octopussy that might be lurking in the Ohio River Valley? Perhaps we should start by asking shy Arkansas billionaire Jackson T. Stephens. After all, Stephens introduced BCCI from Pakistan to the United States and the WTI waste incinerator to East Liverpool, Ohio. Stephens would be a good sketch artist because he's seen some monstrous scandals in his day. Stephens' family firm is the largest privately owned investment bank outside Wall Street. In September 1977, President Jimmy Carter's Budget Director Burt Lance was forced to resign amid allegations about his bank dealings with Stephens (Stephens and Carter were classmates at the Naval Academy). In 1978, Stephens, Lance and BCCI were charged with violating U.S. security laws. The charges were dropped after the defendants promised not to violate security laws in the future, even though they admitted no guilt.

The New York Post reported in February 1992 that it was Stephens who enabled BCCI to gain a foothold in the U.S. and helped the fraud-plagued bank secretly acquire U.S. banks. In Peter Truell and Larry Gurwin's book, False Profits, perhaps the best account of the BCCI scandal, the authors outlined how opium revenue from Afghanistan Mujahedin fighting the Soviets ended up in the accounts of BCCI, founded by Agha Hasan Abedi. The Post reported that Stephens allegedly introduced Abedi to Lance shortly after Lance resigned.

In 1991, Lance testified that he urged Abedi to acquire a Washington bank holding company, but he denied any knowledge of BCCI's subsequent secret ownership of First American Bankshares. The Post reported that Securities and Exchange Commission documents from 1977 substantiate that the idea originated with Stephens.

During Bill Clinton's 1992 presidential run, Stephens and his son Warren boasted of raising more than $100,000 for the campaign. The Stephens family also owned a 38 percent share in Worthen National Bank that extended a crucial $2 million line of credit to Clinton in January 1992.

-snip

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/wti/bob.html



Waste Technologies Industry, Inc. (WTI)


WTI has also gained significant political support, as one of the original partners in the corporation was Jackson Stephens. Stephens, an Arkansas investor, was known as a significant contributor to Reagan, Bush, and Clinton campaigns.

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

The EPA has been accused of having bias in favor of WTI and carrying out decision-making activities without required public participation. The agency also violated rules established in RCRA during the WTI permit application process. EPA admitted such wrong-doing at a hearing before the House Judiciary Committee's subcommitteeon Administrative Law and Government Relations, as well as the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

http://www.umich.edu/~snre492/mcormick.html#Key%20Actor...



Washington, D.C. - The League of Conservation Voters (LCV), the self-described political arm of the environmental movement, has given President Clinton a middling grade of "C-plus" overall for "not working up to potential" during his first year in office.

In particular, the League criticized the Clinton Administration for failing to halt Waste Technologies Industries' controversial hazardous waste incinerator in East Liverpool, Ohio.

-snip

http://wasteage.com/mag/waste_fewer_onsite_hazwaste /


NOW WHAT DO YOU HAVE IN COMPARISON WITH THE KENNEDYS?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Yep - Kennedy's dealings didn't result in BushInc's takeover or the flying of two jets into WTC
because of BFEE's funding of global terror networks for 3 decades....
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #42
50. Thanks. And that is without "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and DOMA , which caused proponents of gay
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 02:29 AM by No Elephants
rights to go Green in 2000 or the bj's in the Oval Office,all of which set us up for the success of allegedly Born Again Bush. Maybe JFK was banging women in hotel rooms while the media remained silent about it, but Clinton knew the media was not going to remain silent in his day the way it did before Gary Hart.
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rvablue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R...for a well-reasoned argument.....
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I don't necessarily agree with the conclusions, but the argument is very sound and shows how...
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 12:34 PM by MookieWilson
messed up people here are on personalities.

And, yes, cardboard grope-gate is just being shrugged off - and that might be a good thing - but the sensitivity gap between racism and sexism is huge here on DU.
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rubberducky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. "They`re also some talented people who have done more good than harm on balance"
UNDERSTATMENT???? Much?? Who the hell cares what the hell they did with thier sexual organs??? They had BRAINS. I am so furious that I can not answer you the way I would like to or I would probably be banned.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. k&r for the term "recreational outrage junkies"
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. me too np
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Yep. Truly an apt phrase for some of what goes on around here.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. I agree...... great term that I hadn't heard before
meanwhile our economy is going to hell and Bush is still in power
doing damage.
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. Oh pulleeze!
Y o u r issues with the Clintons and the Kennedys
really obfuscate the fact that the Kennedy's have
done so much good in this country.

Caroline Kennedy is heads and above the best person
for the job of Senator from NY... waaayy better than
Hillary Clinton, that's for sure.

Caroline Kennedy is competent, willing, and possessed
of the humanity and compassion that is so much
needed in government... and she has that special
Kennedy grace and class that came with Camelot.

The Obamas have it too.

We are so blessed to have Irish Catholics like the
Kennedys in this country.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. I think that qualifies for one of the most amazing posts ever on DU!! (snicker)
Amazingly funny that is!

Y o u r issues with the Clintons and the Kennedys
really obfuscate the fact that the Kennedy's have
done so much good in this country.


But the Clintons have never done a lick of good for our country, eh? O-kaaaaaayyy. :eyes:


Caroline Kennedy is heads and above the best person
for the job of Senator from NY... waaayy better than
Hillary Clinton, that's for sure.


I love Caroline Kennedy but that particular statement of yours just might break the alltime record for SILLY.


We are so blessed to have Irish Catholics like the
Kennedys in this country.


Just when I thought it couldn't be done, you have surpassed your previous world record-breaking silliest sentence with ANOTHER one, one that separates the Kennedy's from everyone else because of their religion and their heritage! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. After I read the last sentence I thought the poster forgot the sarcasm smiley.
And I'm half Irish.......

:silly:
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
48. "Irish Catholics like the Kennedys..." You mean like the kind of people who lobotomize a daughter
and then shut her away in a home for the rest of her life? From 1949 until 2005 when she died? That kind of Irish Catholics?

Only 65 lobotomies had been performed before hers. She was subject to mood swings. Nice.

That's not special grace of any kind.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. So you start ANOTHER thread about them???
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
15. Welcome to DU where the left live alternative lives.
Thank goodness it's not a reflection of reality. Ditto for those two other bastions of LW ideology, KOS and Huff.

The mantra around here is Kennedys = progressive wonderful people who should reign.....errr govern....... for at least the next three centuries.

Clintons = evil centrist corporatists who almost destroyed the nation. Thank God someone came to save us from evil Lady Macbeth Hillary, she who attempted to destroy Obama. Hmmmm, can you say Madame Secretary?

PS: You forgot Teddy's itsy bitsy little accident while driving drunk on a certain night in Martha's Vineyard. He forgot to get help until the following morning and a girl was left to die. Oops, his bad.

:eyes:
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. The contrast in perception is really amazing. nt
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Yes, but you can learn things here that you can't learn anywhere else
Did you read post #11 yet? If not, you're in for a real treat.

Where the fuck do these people come from and why do they all seem to congregate here? It's like this place is a freaken magnet for idiots and whiners. lol
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Yeah, I read it.
I wonder if the poster meant it as a joke, if not.........

:crazy:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
20. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:05 PM
Original message
Whoa -- k&r
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 01:06 PM by LostinVA
Mad props re: the "Dynasty" thing, Teddy in 1980 (which I keep mentioning and people keep ignoring), and JFK.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. I mostly agree, but I think it's unfair to describe the Kennedys as pains in the ass.
I'm not advocating her for the Senate seat, but Caroline Kennedy has never done anything to embarass or inconvenience the party, and Ted Kennedy has a long history of selflessly busting his ass for good causes, long after his presidential ambitions were routed.

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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
24. Back to ignore for you drama queen
I probably never should have cleaned the list out.
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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
25. Excellent post. K&R
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. On consistency
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 01:31 PM by ieoeja
First, for the past 46 years there has not been a Kennedy in the White House. For the past 20 years there have ONLY been Bushes or Clintons in the White House.

Second, the Kennedys are icons of the Old Left. The Clintons are icons of the New Center (the old Right). So one could be "sick of the Clintons" yet not be sick of the Kennedys in exactly the same way one could be sick of the Bushes but not of the Clintons.


I don't recall ever using the "no more Clintons" argument myself. But thought I'd wade in here with a couple arguments on the consistency issue anyway.

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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
27. kicking soley for the phrase "recreational outrage junkies"
:thumbsup:
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
28. Let's make a deal. Why not make everybody happy and...
...have the Hillary cutout be the next NY senator?

:sarcasm:


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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
31. Here's two more:
Freaking out over the use of the word "prayer."
Oh, and progressives can't be Catholics.

It's crazy time.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. the problem, I think, is that some people cannot be happy
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 02:04 PM by TexasObserver
Either that, or they are not well intentioned regarding the party.

We're one big party again. The Clintons and the Kennedys are a big part of it.

All this bullshit about the grope gate (it's a fucking cardboard cutout!), the Clinton hate, the Kennedy hate - it's just unacceptable to me. That's why I'm putting on ignore all the whiners who start such threads. Boy, do the shitty threads disappear in a hurry when you put the two dozen worst offenders on ignore.

I refuse to have a message board in front of me with chronic Obama, Clinton and Kennedy bashers. They can take that shit to a GOP board.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
33. "I cannot stop crying" posts! Oh, that's good!
I laughed out loud when I read that. Come to think of it, that phrase is used a lot here.

Are DU people really unable to "stop crying"? I have to wonder...
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. How dare you question the sincerity of my crying! How dare you!
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Oh, I'm sorry! n/t
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
34. Very well done. True also. n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
35. "actually argued seriously that we needed to get away from having Bushes and Clintons on the ballot"
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 02:45 PM by ProSense
You're actually comparing the Bushes to the Clintons? Effectively that is what that statement amounts to.

There are a lot of reasons that people don't want another Bush near the WH and Senate. There are a complete different set of reasons why people didn't want another Clinton in the WH, including the whole legacy thing and the fact that two families would have dominated the Presidency for seven to eight terms. Then there are those who weren't happy with some of Clinton's policies. There is definitely not the same concern with a Kennedy, whose policies, for the most part, appeal to those who would criticize a Bush and Clinton.

The Kennedys do have a political legacy, but they do not have a legacy in the Presidency.





edited typos
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
39. k&r'd...
:kick:
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
40. I've pretty much left DU but had to log in to rec this....
I want to have your babies and stuff. :loveya:
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
45. great post
I can't take what I read in GD: P seriously anymore; the term "recreational outrage junkies" is spot-on.
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
46. I wish I had a sockpuppet so I could recommend this twice
:thumbsup:
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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Maybe you would like a cardboard cutout person Hmmmm?
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
49. Insightful. (nt)
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
51. Well ... I am shocked ... shocked ...
You have opinions ....

This could be a first .....
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
52. The other interesting thing is the speed at which things develope in here.

Having gotten very busy over the last few weeks and missed entire days to return and see entire families of controversies come and pass is very impressive, especially when you call a friend that is passionate and well educated about current political events and ask them about the latest massive outcry on some event only to find that they have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

On the other hand the possibility of something that is pure bullshit, like the backward "B" girl, passing through here and not being completely exposed is non existent.

Speaking of which where is the update on her? Somebody is missing their assignment.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 03:43 AM
Response to Original message
53. 1 agreed, 2 not a fan of either, think they're not qualified, 3 don't like...
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 03:43 AM by JVS
dynasties but if that's the name of the game I am forced to play I like the Kennedys best.
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:11 AM
Response to Original message
54. Based on what I now see here, Issue 1 is now
an "issue"

which I have been silent on until some wise idiot decided to make it an "issue," and threw gasoline on something most women turn the other cheek on in many cases. Now it is an "issue" on DU.

Funny, my entire life, I have many times "laughed off" things being a woman, but when those things become an "issue" on a progressive board, well, it says a lot, and honestly, the "issue" is when I decided to get angry about it.

So thanks to whomever made it an "issue"...brilliant.

And if you do not know what I am talking about, then this post won't bother you at all.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:51 AM
Response to Original message
55. Amen! No more FAMILY DYNASTIES. That's part of the problem in modern American Politics.
:thumbsup:
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:59 AM
Response to Original message
56. You have summed it up perfectly.
I can't understand the Clinton outrage on DU either. I have no doubt that many of the Clinton haters here will eventually start spewing the same towards Obama. Who needs Republicans when we are great at destroying our own all by ourselves?
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