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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:36 AM
Original message
The real point about Caroline

Putting aside questions about her qualifications and even if she is going to be considered for a serious appointment, the most important point about Caroline's consideration for public service has been over looked, namely:


She now wants to get involved.


I travelled to Pauly Pavillion 11 months ago and saw her and it was obvious that she is exceptionally shy and very uncomfortable infront of a large crowd.

But she put that aside and took the stage.

She has put away the sanctuary that her mother sought after the tramatic events of 1963 and is willing to take personal risk and do new things to serve the country. She could still have a very relevant and complete life but she is willing to do things that make her uncomfortable and even unpleasant to get back in the fight and join the struggle for a more humane and progressive government.

That President-Elect Obama can have an effect on the most sophisticated Americans, as well as millions of those that are the real 'regular Joes' of the country is the most important point and points to a country that wants to come out of its shell and reach for new accomplishments even when it means that it will make us uncomfortable and have to do things that we are not familiar with, we are able to change and grow for a higher goal.

Personally I hope that Caroline gets a good meaty public position. She and the people considering her are both bright and knowledgeable about the demands that whatever position she consider entails.

The fact that people like Caroline are getting engaged again is a great omen.
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Dennis Donovan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. Recommended. The "lack of experience" thing is a joke...
You need judgement, not experience, to be a good legislator.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. I totally agree
Hi grantcart,

I was at UCLA that memorable day too.
We should start having DU Meet Ups at more events. :bounce:
I bet a lot of us were there that day.

What is the decision about Senator from New York?

I love her for all the reasons that you stated.
She has steel and I believe that she will be a wonderful political force for our country.

She is not an "empty dress" like some of the others --- Bush kid/wife/brothers come to mind.
Caroline is the real deal --
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. wouldn't it be funny if we were sitting next to each other the whole time lol
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. LOL ~ right you are!
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. She did a lot of campaigning for Kerry in '04 with Chelsea and the Kerry daughters. nt
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
5. What a lovely OP. Many thanks...n/t
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
6. I think she'll get what she wants if Obama has any say in this.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Teddy and RFKjr called the Patterson in support of her
I have no problem with it if Teddy thinks its a good thing.

I want Cuomo the least out the names mentioned so far, but would gladly accept him .
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. Totally agree.
It's SO time for the Kennedys to take charge
and help turn this country around.

Now that Ted is about to leave us.. sigh..
it's time for the next generation to step up.
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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Why is it that people seem to want dynasties in U.S. government? Bush, Clinton, Kennedy...
This is a country of 300 million people and millions in NY state alone. Out of all the qualified people to replace Hillary, we need to go back to the Kennedy's? Seriously?
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. Nice post, grantcart
You picked up on a significnt point that wasn't being noted.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. Millions of Americans got involved for the first time.
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 12:33 PM by Occam Bandage
The only one who's looking to be handed a free Senate seat just happens to be named Kennedy.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. Actually, tens of thousands filled out job application forms on change.gov
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
35. She's far from the only one angling for that appointment.
Edited on Tue Dec-09-08 03:13 AM by No Elephants
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. The Kennedy service gene is calling - she'll rise to the challenge.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. You can't be serious. nt
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I know it's true from working with her.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. You were able to discern her genetic superiority? nt
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Who's talking about "genetic superiority" - I'm talking about...
Edited on Mon Dec-08-08 02:42 PM by polichick
...a familial tendency to serve. Yes, it was pretty easy to detect.

Jeez, what's with all the sour grapes about Caroline Kennedy? People are hand-picked to fill seats all the time, sometimes it's the spouse of someone who died.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. It's kind of sad,
in a pathetic sort of way, those sour grapes.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Giving people high-ranking positions because of their "genes" is a backwards position.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Who would you rather see take Hillary's place?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. She is highly qualified, has great integrity and was raised to serve the public. Why should her
ancestry DISqualify her? Who is better qualified?
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. and yet, FWIW, often positions are awarded to spouses of deceased politicians
its happened many times: Mrs. George Wallace, to name one. Someone in Missouri whose name escapes me at the moment.

there are various and sundry odd reasons to appoint or elect individuals going on all the time.
It does not mean they can't serve as well as someone like a Hastert or Frist or DeLay who got the position the normal way.

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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. right, wouldn't we all love to 'serve' at $165,000 a year plus power
Of course, that's not a huge step up for a Kennedy, but it kinda cracks me up to hear it called 'service' like it's charity work. I put in about 100 hours or more last year trying to help elect democrats. I got paid nothing. In fact, it cost me money to participate in fund raisers and such. But somebody like me would never be hand-picked to be a Senator. I am willing to 'serve' too though. In fact, I tried to run against Hillary in 2000, but it's actually kinda difficult/expensive to even get on the ballot for a primary.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Empathy is thought to have at least a partially genetic base.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Does leadership?
If that's the case, should power be hereditary?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. We were talking about service, not leadership. n/t
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Then let her continue to work in a field of service, not leadership. nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. It doesn't get more black and white than that. n/t
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SuperTrouper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. Caroline 45. Camelot Returns... If only JFK, Jr. would have been alive...
he would have been either President or Obama's AG
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. Good analysis. I strongly feel that she is motivated by a desire to
help Obama accomplish his goals for this country. I think she truly believes in him and feels that if she can be useful in this enterprise she will do what she can.

Isn't it amazing that Obama is such a magnet for true talent?
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. I always thought JFK Jr. would run for President someday.
Sadly, we never saw whether or not he would be called to public service (outside of his stint as a prosecutor).

However, I completely agree with you that Caroline seemed to be almost compelled into the political arena. She is clearly shy by nature and doesn't seek the limelight or personal accolades. She holds a genuine compassion for the little guys and gals. She's earnest and exhibits genuine compassion for those less fortunate. Not to mention she is a brilliant person, intellectually speaking.

I am on the bandwagon, dynasties be damned. The Kennedys have done a lot for America. Caroline truly could be our first female President and I would support her wholeheartedly.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's great that she wants to get involved
and if it'a Obama that gave her that motivation, well, that's wonderful.

But most people who want to "get involved" don't get handed a Senate seat from the 2nd most powerful state in the country just because they want it.

It smacks of political payback, it smacks of privilage, and if Obama's fingerprints are found on this there are a lot of people who won't look on him favorably over it.

Surely there must be some other position in an Obama administration that she could get involved in...

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
20. Nomination #20.
Well said.

As a NYS resident, I'll be pleased if she takes the position. And, at this point, the decision is up to her; it has been offered to her, and she has a decxision to make.
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Jim Lane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
28. The virtue of experience is that it gives us a more reliable basis for predicting future performance
Incumbent Congressmembers like Maurice Hinchey, Carolyn Maloney, and Jose Serrano have performed as federal legislators for several terms. We can see how they voted on key issues, what bills they sponsored, how effective they were in committee work, etc. I'm happy that Caroline Kennedy wants to get more involved in electoral politics, and she's certainly an intelligent person -- but Hinchey, Maloney, Serrano, and several others have those same qualifications plus a legislative track record that we can assess. Andrew Cuomo, often mentioned as a possibiity for the seat, hasn't been a legislator but has held major public offices (HUD Secretary and state Attorney General), in which his performance has been both praised and criticized. For all of these people, you can study their records and form your own opinion. Caroline Kennedy is more of an unknown.

There are practical considerations, too. New York is a blue state but the 2010 election is not in the bag. Giuliani sought this seat in 2000 before dropping out and might well give it another try. He'd be a formidable candidate. Paterson would do well to give preference to someone with a demonstrated ability to win elections. Certainly Kennedy's name would help her in 2010. Each of the four people I mentioned, however, would have the "experience" argument, plus some other electoral advantage -- being an upstater (Hinchey), a woman (Maloney), a Latino (Serrano), or another famous name (Cuomo).

The best person for the job, IMO, is Congressman Jerry Nadler, but he wouldn't be a strong statewide candidate. The same might be true of Serrano. Both of them, however, have shown their mettle in difficult circumstances by voting against both the PATRIOT Act and the Iraq War Resolution, which is more than a certain departing Senator could bring herself to do.

My prediction is that Paterson will appoint Cuomo, thus deflecting Cuomo from a challenge to Paterson in the 2010 gubernatorial election.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
29. I'm so glad you wrote an OP on
this, grant. I really liked your post on this, last night..

grantcart (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-06-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. She is highly intelligent and has been very careful about conserving her image
and involvement in politics.


The most interesting part of this whole episode hasn't been addressed by anyone - why does she now want to get involved. She doesn't want or need the attention, in fact she is terribly shy.

I think it is a particularly good indicator of the kind of transformation Obama can have on people, even people who have been close to great fame and wealth. I am confident that if she were appointed and if she took it she would become one of the best Senators in the Senate.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. thank you
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. And, I should have hightlighted
that last paragraph!

"I think it is a particularly good indicator of the kind of transformation Obama can have on people, even people who have been close to great fame and wealth. I am confident that if she were appointed and if she took it she would become one of the best Senators in the Senate."
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. Agreed and K & R. n/t
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Happy you agree~ and a
K&R~ :)
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
41. On a whim, I think I too shall become engaged.
I'll take Chancellor of the Exchequer, dear! I'm so bored with these lavish teas and polo...whatever they're called...

Oh, and please tell that up and coming Ogama fellow that his path to great achievement will be in need of a detour.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
42. She was neither shy nor uncomfortable appearing when she read a poem on Def Poetry Jam.
back in the day: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Both she and John Jr. :cry: were schooled early on by Jackie O in grace and decorum.
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Augdog20 Donating Member (119 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
44. vote in blog poll for alternate to Lady Caroline Kennedy
Think it's wrong to give seat to dynasty figure with no elected office experience, but a political dynasty name, then vote for your choice of alternate.

Cong. Ackerman says J Lo is as qualified as the no-officeholding-resume of Lady Kennedy.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12112008/news/regionalnews/...

VOTE IN MY BLOG'S POLL:
Who should be Gov. Paterson's alternate to Caroline Kennedy?

http://bluesunited.blogspot.com
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