For the ones who said that Hillary would have never made it to the Senate

[question everything]

were it not for her spouse (and, of course, found her disqualified for anything except hosting tea parties):

Do you support Kennedy for the Senate? If yes, why?

[w4rma]

1. yay. more drama. (nt)

[NYC_SKP]

6. I guess it's OK for this to be in GD-Presidential because...

Obama picked her to be SOS....

sigh.

[question everything]

7. First, there are many threads here that I wonder about "belonging" here

second, there are several threads her about both Kennedys. Have you raised objections there, too?

[NYC_SKP]

32. If a bunch of DUers go running with scissors, that doesn't make it safe!

:hi:

[question everything]

42. True enough. And GD-P has always been a dangerous zone (nt)

[DJ13]

2. Whats with the anti Caroline Kennedy stuff here on DU?

I thought she was considered one of our heroes after she broke with her tradition of staying away from politics by endorsing Obama?

Is this more "she hurt Hillary's chances in the primaries so I dont like her" stuff?

[glowing]

4. Its the whole dynasty thing.. Oligarchy in American politics that keeps certain

people ruling and other's left out in the dark.. and the perception that ideas become old and lobbyist/ special interests become more entrenched. Caroline Kennedy does have that last name and is from the clan.. but she's done a lot of good. Who knows what will transpire? It's the worry over class rule and not having a monarchy.. I mean look at King George.. Had he not been a Bush, would anyone at all voted for the asshat? He was so incompetant.. but that info was sealed and the media helped to prop up the boyking.. and daddy silenced the critics.. that's the problem with power being amassed with the few and transceding many generations.

[DJ13]

5. No, if thats whats behind the anti Caroline posts it wouldnt come from

....Hillary supporters, as the Clintons represent the two dynastic WH families for the last 20 years.

There hasnt been a Kennedy in the WH since JFK was killed 44 years ago.

[question everything]

44. It is a matter of comparison

Kennedy certainly has many assets that could make her an effective senator.

My post was addressed to the ones who, on these pages, have bashed Hillary for not being qualified to be a senator, that she would have never made it had it not been for her marriage.

For the ones who bashed her, and IF now they support Kennedy, is a sheer hypocrisy.

And I point out that Hillary has been an activist since her days in college, always fighting for causes, while Kennedy pretty much guarded her privacy. Sure she is on several boards. Do you think that she went out searching for these posts? No, she has been getting tons of such invitations and all she had to do was pick and choose.

Do you think that Kennedy would have stuck her neck with such a major health care reform the way Hillary (Mrs. Bill Clinton, if you want) did?

[cali]

61. early Obama supporter, never supported HIllary, and I'm not

too keen on Caroline being appointed. If her name weren't Kennedy, she would never be considered.

[AllentownJake]

12. There will always be old established families in American Politics

There will also be new fresh politians...We currently have a mixture.

[blonndee]

8. I think it's the "everything is all about Hillary" mindset.

The only point of reference is Hillary, so everything in the whole GD world MUST be compared to her.

So, the answer to your question is yes, IMO.

[question everything]

11. What are her qualificatins to be a Senator

besides being a nice lady with the right name?

Palin, at least, held several elective offices.

And Hillary has been an activist for progressive causes as soon as she graduated from College, like going south to register voters. Caroline Kennedy always cherished her privacy, wrote a few books, sat on several charity organizations... Perhaps this is OK for many here, but how many of the ones fawning over Caroline Kennedy questioned Hillary's qualifications to even be a Senator?

This is where I see the hypocrisy.

[AllentownJake]

13. Why is elected office the only qualification to be a Senator

Serving on the boards of the NAACP, the Kennedy Library, Harvard, etc aren't good qualifications?

Does serving as one of 3 people who vetted the Vice President count as a qualification?

Does having the educational background to interpret laws and write legislation meet qualifications?

Being a business woman and an author aren't good qualifications?

Please tell me what are the qualifications one needs to have to be a Senator?

Was John Corzine less qualified than Palin because he wasn't the mayor of some bumblefuck town in NJ?

How about Wesley Clark or Joe Sestak? Are they less qualified than Palin because they didn't run a municipality of 6000 people and a state of less than 300,000?

How about Eisenhower...do you think that Palin would be a better President than Eisenhower because she ran Wasilla Alaska?

[Sidney J Mussburger]

14. So you're using Sarah Palin to tear down Caroline Kennedy?

What elective offices did Hillary have before being elected Senator from New York? You are the Hypocrite.

[question everything]

21. Hillary Clinton has been an activist all her life

From Wikipedia

n 1965, Rodham enrolled at Wellesley College, where she majored in political science.<17> During her freshman year, she served as president of the Wellesley Young Republicans;<18><19> with this Rockefeller Republican-oriented group,<20> she supported the elections of John Lindsay and Edward Brooke.<21> She later stepped down from this position, as her views changed regarding the American Civil Rights Movement and the Vietnam War.<18>

In a letter to her youth minister at this time, she described herself as "a mind conservative and a heart liberal."<22> In contrast to the 1960s current that believed in radical actions against the political system, she sought to work for change within it.<23> In her junior year, Rodham became a supporter of the anti-war presidential nomination campaign of Democrat Eugene McCarthy.<24> Following the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr., Rodham organized a two-day student strike and worked with Wellesley's black students to recruit more black students and faculty.<24>

Rodham then entered Yale Law School, where she served on the editorial board of the Yale Review of Law and Social Action.<35> During her second year, she worked at the Yale Child Study Center,<36> learning about new research on early childhood brain development and working as a research assistant on the seminal work, Beyond the Best Interests of the Child (1973).<37><38> She also took on cases of child abuse at Yale-New Haven Hospital,<37> and volunteered at New Haven Legal Services to provide free legal advice for the poor.<36> In the summer of 1970, she was awarded a grant to work at Marian Wright Edelman's Washington Research Project, where she was assigned to Senator Walter Mondale's Subcommittee on Migratory Labor. There she researched migrant workers' problems in housing, sanitation, health and education.<39> Edelman later became a significant mentor.<40>

In the late spring of 1971, she began dating Bill Clinton, also a law student at Yale. That summer, she interned at the Oakland, California, law firm of Treuhaft, Walker and Burnstein.<41> The firm was well-known for its support of constitutional rights, civil liberties, and radical causes (two of its four partners were current or former Communist Party members);<41> Rodham worked on child custody and other cases.<42>

The following summer, Rodham and Clinton campaigned in Texas for unsuccessful 1972 Democratic presidential candidate George McGovern.<44> She received a Juris Doctor degree from Yale in 1973,<27> having stayed on an extra year in order to be with Clinton.<45> Clinton first proposed marriage to her following graduation, but she declined.<45> She began a year of post-graduate study on children and medicine at the Yale Child Study Center.<46> Her first scholarly article, "Children Under the Law", was published in the Harvard Educational Review in late 1973.<47> Discussing the new children's rights movement, it stated that "child citizens" were "powerless individuals"<48> and argued that children should not be considered equally incompetent from birth to attaining legal age, but that rather courts should presume competence except when there is evidence otherwise, on a case-by-case basis.<49> The article became frequently cited in the field.<50>


As first lady of Arkansas Rodham maintained her interest in children's law and family policy, publishing the scholarly articles "Children's Policies: Abandonment and Neglect" in 1977<70> and "Children's Rights: A Legal Perspective" in 1979.<71> The latter continued her argument that children's legal competence depended upon their age and other circumstances, and that serious medical rights cases, judicial intervention was sometimes warranted.<49> An American Bar Association chair later said, "Her articles were important, not because they were radically new but because they helped formulate something that had been inchoate."<49> Historian Garry Wills would later describe her as "one of the more important scholar-activists of the last two decades",<72> while conservatives said her theories would usurp traditional parental authority,<73> allow children to file frivolous lawsuits against their parents,<49> and argued that her work was legal "crit" theory run amok.<74>

========

What has Kennedy done except sort through letters asking her to chair this or that committee?

She never had to work in her life, never had to convince, cajole or argue about anything that mattered to her. All she had to do is be gracious to the ones who wanted the honor of her name on their letter head.

[Sidney J Mussburger]

22. What elective offices did Hillary hold?

I couldn't see them in what you posted. I mean, Sarah Palin has better qualifications than Hillary from what you just posted. Why do you hate Hillary and Democrats so much? Please go back to FreeRepublic with your Palin praising posts.

[Captain Hilts]

34. Hillary Clinton has a law degree and was listed as one of the 100 best lawyers in the country...

and you're comparing her to PALIN????

[Sidney J Mussburger]

37. Tell it to the OP

I'm not the one who said Palin was better suited based on past elected offices.

[whistler162]

40. She is a US citizen and old enough.....

and unlike Senator Clinton she has lived in New York for many years.

I would rather see her run in the 2010 primary than be appointed by Gov. Paterson but if he decides to appoint her I can live with it.

If appointed we will have to wait until 2010 to see who goes up against her in the primary to see if she will get my vote.

[question everything]

49. Agree with this. If she is appointed now, no one would dare run

against the daughter of JFK.

I wonder whether any Democrat has ever lost a primary in New York.

[Raineyb]

20. Actually it's more a why her when we have plenty of Democrats who are perfectly willing and able

to fill the seat who have been serving in other capacities for years type of thing.

It's an anti-legacy thing.

Regards

[question everything]

50. Or anti celeberity

Am not trying to follow the McCain commercial but there are many who have demonstrated their activism and their effectiveness as public servants.

[Raineyb]

54. Quite true.

I'm not saying one way or another whether Ms. Kennedy would be a good Senator but there are plenty who fit your description and I see no reason why they should be overlooked due to a lack of a famous surname.

Regards

[Dennis Donovan]

3. I support Caroline Kennedy because she is an accomplished individual in her own right:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Kennedy#Professional_life

Professional life

Kennedy is an attorney, editor, writer and member of the New York and Washington, D.C. bars. She is one of the founders of the Profiles in Courage Award, given annually to a person who exemplifies the type of courage examined in her father's Pulitzer Prize-winning book of the same name. The award is generally given to elected officials who, acting in accord with their conscience, risk their careers by pursuing a larger vision of the national, state or local interest in opposition to popular opinion or powerful pressures from their constituents. In May 2002, she presented an unprecedented Profiles in Courage Award to representatives of the NYPD, the New York City Fire Department, and the military as representatives of all of the people who acted to save the lives of others during the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001.<3>

Kennedy is currently President of the Kennedy Library Foundation,<4> a director of both the Commission on Presidential Debates and the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, and Honorary Chairman of the American Ballet Theatre. She is also an adviser to the Harvard Institute of Politics, a living memorial to her father.

Kennedy has represented her family at the funeral services of former Presidents Ronald Reagan in 2004 and Gerald Ford in 2007, and at the funeral service of former First Lady Lady Bird Johnson in 2007. She also represented her family at the dedication of the William J. Clinton Presidential Center and Park in Little Rock, Arkansas in November 2004.

It was reported on December 5, 2008 that New York Governor David Paterson has discussed with Kennedy the possibility of her filling the Senate seat currently occupied by Secretary of State-designate Hillary Clinton.<5>


Works published
Kennedy and Ellen Alderman have written two books together on civil liberties:

In Our Defense: The Bill of Rights In Action (1990) and
The Right to Privacy (1995)
On her own, she has edited these New York Times best-selling volumes:

A Patriot’s Handbook
The Best-Loved Poems of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis
A Family of Poems: My Favorite Poetry for Children
Profiles in Courage for Our Time
She is also the author of "A Family Christmas" a collection of poems, prose and personal notes from her family history.

I support Senator Clinton fo the same reason.

Next question?;)

[question everything]

17. She did not have to work for any of these posts or to prove herself

all these charities were just too pleased to have her on their boards to sit and judge worthy candidates.

And publishers, where her mother used to work, were just too happy to publish her books.

She did not have to work for any assignment. All she had to do is sift through the offers and pick the ones that fit her fancy.

And, until being told by her daughter that she had to endorse Obama, she liked her privacy and chose not to take a stand on anything.

Hillary Clinton has been active in progressive causes since her college days, going South to register voters. Even as the first lady of Arkansas she was active in children related issues.

[Alexander]

9. For those who are against "dynasties", did you vote for Hillary Clinton?

If so, you're a hypocrite.

[question everything]

51. No, it is not anti dynasty

which you would have realized had you bother to read the OP.

It is not even against Kennedy per se. It is addressed to the DUers who trashed Hillary for claiming, like you, that she was a "dynasty" candidate, yet now embrace Kennedy.

If you've fall into this category then you are a hypocrite. But the, this, too, may be too hard for you to grasp.

[AllentownJake]

10. The only problem or issue I had with Hillary being the Senator from NY

is that Hillary had never lived in NY before she ran.

The people of NY voted for her and from what I understand is she's done some good things for the state.

[jrockford]

15. HRC is just lousy. She's a hawk and a poor excuse for a democrat. In many ways she has

the self-serving interests of Lieberman (R-Israel). Show me where Kennedy would have such flaws?

[MoonRiver]

36. President-Elect Obama disagrees with you.

I think I trust his judgment a tad bit more than yours.

[TayTay]

16. I don't know. Has she submitted an argument yet?

Something that states her qualifications and includes reasons why she should be entrusted with a US Senate seat by the Gov of NY?

[AllentownJake]

18. I think that is a private conversation between herself

and the Govenor of NY.

[TayTay]

23. Then what is the point of this thread?

Should Caroline Kennedy seek a Senate seat in the great State of NY, shouldn't she at least address what she would do in the Senate in the newspapers and such?

What would her program be? What does she stand for? What would she do for the good citizens of NY? That should be the consideration of Gov. Patterson when he makes his decision.

It would have nothing to do with any prior Senator who held that seat. That is immaterial to the appoiontment, isn't it?

[AllentownJake]

24. That would be unprecedented

It's not an election its an appointment.

It would be the same as if Hillary campaigned for Sec. of State actively.

This type of thing is done by surrogates.

[TayTay]

25. So you are saying that the people of NY should just shut up and

let the Gov appoint someone without even sharing information from that person?

That is very undemocratic. The State of NY has been incredibly hard hit by this recession. There are hundreds of thousands of layoffs. The State budget is in freefall and the amount of suffering that is going to occur this coming year will be horrific and widespread.

But the good taxpaying citizens of NY have no right to know what a potential Senator would do? That is ridiculous. This is not a monarchy and awarding a US Senate seat for a critical state like NY should not be based on secret conversations. I cannot think of anything more Bush-like.

[AllentownJake]

29. In 2010 the state of NY will vote on their Senator

If you don't like the law you should work to change it. Its a 2 year appointment than whoever is picked will have to run to be elected.

In some states there are special elections. NY is not one of them.

Your better off than Delaware...most of the people in that state didn't even know who the guy who got appointed for 2 years to fill in for Biden.

Also be happy your Govenor is not a Republican. Otherwise the person appointed would not even be in the same party of the person they were replacing.

[AllentownJake]

30. Also when he was elected as Lt. Govenor

The citizens of NY knew he could become Govenor in the event of Spitzer leaving office. One of the duties of Govenor is to appoint Senators in the event that there is a vacancy until there is a congressional election year.

So by voting for Patterson you have in a sense voted for his judgement to appoint a replacement Senator.

Seeing that everyone knew Hillary was running and was the front runner...the people of NY knew that there was a good chance that the Govenor of NY would be choosing a Senator.

[polmaven]

48. You said it yourself!

"That should be the consideration of Gov. Patterson when he makes his decision."

It is up to Governor Patterson to make the appointment. It may, if she should run for the seat in 2010, be up to the voters then.

[question everything]

52. But then in 2010 she will be an incumbent

and who would dare challenge the daughter of JFK? At least, in the Democratic primaries?

[sandnsea]

19. I love Caroline, but no

I don't think she's the most qualified for the seat.

[tabbycat31]

26. I did not initially support Hillary in the Senate

and the only GOP vote of my lifetime was a vote for Rick Lazio (her 2000 opponent). However she made me eat my words, and I voted for her in 2006. It was not her spouse that made me not want her for the job, it was the fact that she was a "carpetbagger" and I felt it would be better to elect someone who understood NY's issues better. I was also very frustrated, being in the next town over from the Clintons new home, and whenever they were in town, all the roads would close and I coudln't get anywhere.

I must admit that I have a somewhat selfish reason to want Caroline Kennedy in the Senate. I'm named after her (my parents grew up worshiping the Kennedys), and if it means that people will finally learn how to prouounce Caroline, it would make my life so much easier.

[shifting_sands]

27. Incredible

Caroline Kennedy has two, count them two law degrees, has written books, taken a major role in reading and education of inner city kids, traveled extensively, been exposed to world leaders on, well known lecturer and a community leader of some note in this country. Do you people have any idea who exactly are Senators? There are ranchers, business men, women filling out their dead husband's terms, crooks, liars, all manner of people. Someone can just walk in off the street and run for the Senate, Caroline Kennedy is more qualified and more educated than most Senators in Washington. If you don't like the Kennedy's then don't vote for her in 2010, but don't fashion yourselves capable to pass on Caroline Kennedy's qualifications for the job.

[question everything]

53. Why is it so difficult for you to actually read the post to which you reply?

I don't have anything against Kennedy. I do call on DUers who have trashed Hillary for... actually running and winning, claiming that she was not qualified, would not have been elected had she not been a Clinton, yet now embrace Kennedy for... being a Kennedy. This is hyporisy.

And if she is appointed, she will be a Senator for as long as she wants. What Democrat would run against the daughter of JFK in the primaries?

[mkultra]

28. blah blah blah Hillary blah bah blah

[Occam Bandage]

31. I didn't, and I don't.

[mitchum]

33. Anti-dynastic sentiment comes with the privileged territory...

just as opportunities do

[Captain Hilts]

35. True...

[dionysus]

38. hillary

hillary hillary hillary hillary hillary hillary hillary hillary hillary hillary hillary hillary hillary hillary hillary hillary hillary hillary

:eyes:

[Mass]

39. WHo are the idiots that said that? Any Democrat?

That the race has been made different because of who Bill Clinton was (in good and bad for her) is incontestable. There is indeed no way to know who she would be if she was not Bill's wife. It would involve rewriting history.

Somebody who said she would never have made it to the Senate without Bill are sexist idiots. No other way to say that. Hillary Clinton, whatever my doubts concerning her may be, is obviously a very bright woman who has huge abilities on her own (some of them she may have squandered helping Bill).

This said, while I do not think Caroline Kennedy should be handed a Senator's position just because she is JFK's daughter (and cannot believe how many people think that would be a good thing), it is also unfair to assume that, because she is John Kennedy's daughter, she is unfit for being Senator. I would have to look closer to know what I think about this, and she may be qualified and still not the best candidate, everything considered. However, she should be considered on her own merits, not because of who she is the daughter of.

[question everything]

41. There have been many threads on DU trashing Hillary, and Bill

and saying that were it not for her marriage she would have never made it to the Senate.

My point about Caroline Kennedy was that for the ones who said this about Hillary, IF they now support Kennedy is sheer hypocrisy.

Of course Kennedy can offer good ideas and could be an effective Senator, I just wanted to throw parallels here.

When you compare both, Hillary has a history of being an activist, of fighting for causes since her college years, while Kennedy pretty much wanted to stay away from the public life.

Thus, to trash Hillary but to praise Kennedy is hypocrisy.

[Raineyb]

46. Do you really think Hillary Clinton wife of non president Bill Clinton would have been able to run

for Senate in NY having not even lived in the state? Because without the name recognition I can easily tell you without rewriting history that the answer is no.

Regards

[whistler162]

43. From NY she would not have been elected to the Senate...

if she had run for the office cold after just moving to New York.

Because of her background. Maybe from Illionis but not from New York.

[joshcryer]

45. I know that your nickname is "question everything" but was this really necessary?

I respect you and about 20 other DUers very highly because of your general attitude, but this is sort of a change of character for you. I expect better.

It's all good, though, can't change it after the fact. I look forward to your better posts here.

[Honeycombe8]

47. This post is merely to inflame, isn't it? Are you against Clinton? Or Kennedy? Which one? nt

[question everything]

55. Neither, as you would have realized had you bothered to read the OP

It is against DUers who still trash Hillary for actually running a campaign and winning, thanks, in part to her name, yet have no problem with Caroline being nominated because she is a... Kennedy. And if appointed, she will be there as long as she wants to. No Democrat will challenge her in the primaries.

I am calling the DUers who trash Hillary but embrace Caroline hypocrites and, apparently, based on this thread alone - and perhaps others - there are many here.

[mwei924]

59. I think some had issues with Hillary not because she was married to Bill...

..but because she ran in NEW YORK, a state to which she had almost zero connections before her Senate run. If she had decided to run in Illinois or Arkansas, people would at least agree that she has a true connection to those states either from her adult life or her childhood. Maybe they would say that she gets a little head-start because of her name. She became a fine senator (I don't think the actual job of being senator was the issue), but it did seem like she just chased the first open seat without actually settling in the state for a while first. Hillary, IMO, had plenty of qualifications for being a senator except for any connections to the state she wanted to represent.

Caroline Kennedy has lived in NY for the most part. I would say she has enough qualifications, whether or not she had to "work for it" doesn't matter. Anyone who was born to money probably had to work less than someone who was from humble origins.

[Augdog20]

56. vote for alternative to Lady Caroline, for NY senate seat

Cong. Ackerman says J Lo is as qualified as the no-officeholding-resume of Lady Kennedy.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12112008/news/regionalnews/caroline_equals_j_lo__dem_143651.htm

VOTE IN MY BLOG'S POLL:
Who should be Gov. Paterson's alternate to Caroline Kennedy?

http://bluesunited.blogspot.com

[whistler162]

57. So have you expressed your opinion over at DailyKOS....

in Governor Paterson's blog?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/11/17165/565/900/669305

[EFerrari]

58. J Lo can't even manage her own household. That's ridiculous. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

60. lololol!