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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 06:49 PM
Original message
Why I support Caroline Kennedy in the Senate
1) I believe she is a good progressive democrat. She has served in numerous capacities for charities and progressive causes. As a lawyer she's qualified to understand legislation an aid in its crafting. She's also incredibly hard working and has built a good career.

2) She took the opportunities she's been given in life and used them. Than she used them to help others.

3) I believe that she would be an instant superstar in the democratic party. We need superstars and heroes. They help down ticket candidates and raise money for the party. They give people to look up to and to be inspired by.

4) She's from NY. She was born in NY and has spent most of her adult life in NY. She can represent NY well because she is a NYer

5) She would be easily re-elected. I've seen her speak when she campaigned for Obama in Bethlehem. She's remarkably charming and effective at delivering a message.

6) I don't believe she would be going to the Senate for prestige or power. I believe she would be going there to work for the people of NY and the people of this country.

I know some people get nervous about Dynasties. However, I don't believe someone should be precluded from a position because of who their Father and Uncles were anymore than they should be handed a position because of who they were. Her father's name may have opened many doors for her, however, she's used those doors for the purpose of doing good things for this country. Her views are in line with what most of us believe in on here. She has the trust and confidence of the President Elect. She has accomplished things on her own and the things she has accomplished are amazing.

I always though John Jr. would one day be in that seat. I actually think Caroline is even a better person for it seeing her over the past 4 years.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Second that.
:thumbsup:
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DebbieCDC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. Third that
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree...
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. As a NY resident I'm open to the idea - I'm sure we could do alot worse
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. And it doesn't hurt that Sen. Ted Kennedy has been her mentor
I like the point you brought up about helping down ticket candidates. After all, it's politics after all.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Having another Senator Kennedy to campaign for us and raise money
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 07:13 PM by Jake3463
Is not a bad thing. Its a very good thing. Plus I can't think of a scandal she's been involved in her entire life.

She'd be a great surrogate during 2012 and she'd be a great draw for a tight congressional battle in 2014.
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union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. Also...
Mike Schmerwhatsis on Hardball said because she'd be starting out in the Senate it could be something of a Sarah Palin issue. Not so much. Caroline passed the bar exam the first time. It took her brother two tries. Palin had to go to every school that would have her to get an undergraduate degree. Just sayin...


Anyway, as a NYer I'd love to have her as my senator. Is it too early to say "Caroline for president in 2016?"
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. That's something I can get behind in 8 years
:-)
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Sadly, I can't go there.
Senator, fine if that's what the people of New York want. But I don't believe another Kennedy will ever be allowed in the White House. At least not until every last member of the Bush Crime Family is either rotting in prison or burning in Hell. They took down RFK, and had Teddy managed to get the nomination in 1980, they would have got him too. Some claim they got JFK Jr.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. so our Senate seat is not to represent us, it's just a stepping stone? nt
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:22 PM
Original message
I'd like a President Feingold
a President Sestak or a President Boxxer just as fine as well.

You got to have a high office to run for President.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I was asking those same questions back in 2000
At least Caroline lives in New York.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. yes, that is a little bit of progress. nt
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. so she's a better choice than many elected progressive Democrats because she's famous

Or do you think all of our Congressmen and Congresswomen don't understand the legislative process, are lazy, are not charming, and can't win elections in New York?
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. She's better for the party as a whole
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 07:25 PM by Jake3463
On a national level...on the state level...she has gravitas and allies that the congress people won't have when she walks in (I will campaign for you)that is better for NY.

I'm pretty sure she can beat most of those people in a primary and very sure she could win re-election easily against any democratic challenger in NY.

Going directly to the Senate is not like its an odd thing. There are many Senators who were never legislators before they were elected.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. So none of that is about representing New York in the Senate.
It's about fundraising and campaigning for other people.

And she has more gravitas and alliances in Congress than people who've served there for decades?

If she's such a strong Democratic candidate, why has she never run for office and wants to get her start via an appointment?

Nearly half of our Senators were governors or House members before. Many more were state legislators, mayors, etc.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. It is good for NY
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 07:40 PM by Jake3463
She'll be able to get things done for your state that no other NYer can get done in the Senate.

BTW it is politics. Getting things you want in the senate require one of two things. Seniority or ability to help your fellow senators in your party. A new Senator isn't going to have either other than Caroline in NY
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. So Caroline would be more effective at making political deals
than people who have done it for decades in Albany and D.C.?

The same arguments you make about celebrity leading to political power applied to Hillary. And she chose a Cabinet post over being a junior senator.

Congressmen do get higher seniority over other freshmen when they enter the Senate. Not to mention the fact that they already have working relationships with House and Senate members, and established staffs.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Hillary chose THE cabinet post
Secretary of State is the most distinquished position in government after President. She will be 68 in 2016 when she would have the next chance to run for the Presidency. Besides, I think since her idol was Eleanor Roosevelt its something she wanted to do when offered to her.

Hillary brought alot of dollars back to NY. The reason why she was able to do that was because she could raise money like mad for the DRSC and she could show up in a race and generate an excited crowd for a candidate.

I think Caroline will be ok brokering deals. She seemed to handle the VP vetting process quite well :-)
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Why do you suppose she's on the list?
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. This year I kept reading about how she hadn't been very involved in politics
until this campaign year. So I guess I hadn't though of her as a political power broker, but many people are saying she is, so I guess I've learned something in all this.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. She's on the board of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 08:56 PM by Jake3463
She may not be involved in electoral politics but she's involved in politics none the less.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #16
35. Really? What things could she get done in the Senate that no
other NYer could get done? What tripe.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. Gravitas
Edited on Sat Dec-06-08 12:10 PM by Jake3463
Surprised your so adament about this after what she did for us in the primaries. Or are you one of those Obama supporters that was against Clinton not for Obama than?
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Top Cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
17. I agree with all your points great post.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. The NYS DEM party produces mediocrities.
The other candidates mentioned are creatures of the system and are undistinguished and indistinguishable... except demographically ( white, black, Hispanic, male female, upstate, downstate).

For these reasons a CK candidacy is not crazy. She might be stronger than the state party and therefore independent of it..... and therefore useful to the electorate.

OTOH, can she really represent "average" people? She can know very little of what life is like for the average NYer whom she will represent.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Bobby Kennedy represented average people quite well
Probably one of the best advocates for civil rights and worker rights we ever had.

He grew up around a little money.

Ronald Reagan grew up poor. He was an asshole. What's the point.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Reagan was progressive and became.....
... an asshole only AFTER he became rich.

He *forgot* what it was like to be poor. Caroline never KNEW what it was like.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. So by your standards, the Kennedys, Kerry and Gore couldn't care about others...
Because they never knew what it was like to be poor?

Gimme a break. :eyes:
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. If one's contact with ordinary people is limited to....
Edited on Sat Dec-06-08 06:46 AM by PaulHo
... nannys, household servants and the like, one is likely to have an understanding of average people that is, shall we say, *limited*. (Compound that with the *extremely* sheltered life that was imposed on her by her post- 1963 circumstance.)

That seems to have been *generally* true of Ms. Kennedy. There's a rumor on the upper East side of NYC that she's "aloof" . Doesn't make her a war criminal; just means that she might not be as equipped to represent the interests of average NYers as someone who comes from a more typical background.

Don't know enough about the upbringings of the rest of the people you mention to comment productively on the comparison. Gore was a senator's and went to private school. I'm not sure that puts him in the same boat, psychologically, as the Kennedys. Kerry married money... suggesting he didn't have that much of his own. So, ditto re.his mind-set.

Everybody "can care about others." ( except some people in prisons/ psychiatric institutions) That bar's pretty low. We might look for a higher bar in a US Senator.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. Wealth doesn't create assholes
There parents attitude towards wealth creates assholes.

There are plenty of working class people who worked their way up who are complete and utter fucktards to the people they grew up with.

Reagan, Nixon, Grant, Alexander Hamilton (going back to the revolution).
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Who the hell cares
if someone was ever poor. I don't care how rich they are if they support a progressive agenda.

Mike Huckabee was poor and he would be a terrible President.

I guess FDR had no business being President either?



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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. FDR was an anomaly. A "traitor to his class" as the economic ...
... elite of the time said. And frankly, a lot of the New Deal agenda was driven by the desperation of the US population as a whole. FDR went along for the ride... some analysts say... thereby saving capitalism from itself.

He did make great speeches. I'll give you that.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #33
40. Ok,
Nixon...another guy who grew up with firm working class roots...total asshole.

How about Teddy Roosevelt...he was republican but he was also another traitor to his class when he went after the trusts.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. It's hard to make a convincing argument...
against someone who talks out of their ass.

I agree with you 100%.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
23. I saw her speak at UCLA at the beginning of the Obama Campaign

She is one classy and smart lady.

I kept thinking then that she was ready to blossom.

She worked beautifully with the Obama Campaign.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
49. I saw that, too! I was so
thankful for everyone there that day who spoke so eloquently and passionately in their support for Obama, including Maria Schiver.

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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. Yes, it was a great day to see the passion behind their
support for Obama.

At the time Caroline was not aggressive about politics in my view but she learned a lot from being there at every opportunity for Obama.

I believe that she has his absolute support!

Go Caroline!
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jrockford Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
25. She certainly be better than Clinton. And this nervousness of dynasties is just stupid. nt
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #25
37.  how do you know she'd be better than Clinton?
And if she wants it she should run for it, not be appointed. Oh, and glad to hear you approve of the bush dynasty.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. The world isn't fucking black and white
Sometimes people who have a long history of their family serving in politics are great public servants. Sometimes they are fucking awful.

Nixon and Reagan came from no dynastic or rich family...they were shit.

Kennedy and Roosevelt came from families that were in politics. They weren't half bad.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. Someone will be appointed.
They will not run for it until 2010.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
26. She works for me. Her or Cuomo are both good picks. (nt)
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
30. Yep. Plus, I think her dad was in politics, too.

- - - -

I'll honor Gov. Paterson's choice for the seat, but I'm rooting for CKS.
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whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
32. I am not adverse.... but.....
I would prefer that she run in two years and have someone like H. Carl McCall or another senior NY statesperson be appointed by Gov. Paterson. Until a primary can be run.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
36. These are process reasons.
They do not pertain to what she would ACTUALLY DO in the United States Senate.

The first few reasons you give are character testimonials. They also cite common traits among people who pursue non-elected positions where they can be of service to their country.

6) I don't believe she would be going to the Senate for prestige or power. I believe she would be going there to work for the people of NY and the people of this country.

How do you know this? It is based on an "I believe" statement. That is neither provable nor disprovable. What event gives you this belief? What window into her political soul have you seen that others may not have? Character testimonials can be very important. What is your basis for saying this?

Your argument is based on the perceived process of politics. She would be good because she is famous, has done good works without any contradicting bad behavior and would raise money for other Democrats. But what would she do for the citizens of New York and stand for in the US Senate? What non-process reasons do you have?

What charities has she worked for? What is her passion? What has she said about the defining issues of our day? What are her views on the current economic crisis? How does she reconcile representing the interests of Wall St versus the interests of the rest of America?

I have no opinion one way or the other on who is appointed the new Senator from NY. But your arguments are weak. Why would Caroline Kennedy (or any other potential appointee) be a good choice for the people of New York? The argument is not who would raise the most money for the Democrats or be the least likely to have trouble getting re-elected. That is process. Isn't that what we want to get away from?

You seem fairly passionate about this. Why? What do you see in her, see as great potential as a legislator and US Senator and why do you see this? (Same challenge to other potential appointees as well. Why? What makes that person a good choice to represent the people of NY in the Senate?)
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. This is what I mean: Alberto Mora, recepient of the Profiles in Courage Award
Caroline Kennedy was an influential member of the Profiles in Courage award Committee. The Committee membership list is online at the PiC site. She helped persuade this diverse and bipartisan group to give the award in 2006 to this man for the following reasons:


Alberto Mora

In December 2002, Alberto J. Mora, then general counsel of the United States Navy, was alerted by Navy investigators to reports that detainees held by the U.S. military at Guantanamo Bay were being subjected to cruel and unlawful interrogation practices. Mora, whose civilian position accorded him a rank equal to that of a four-star general, soon came to learn that the cruel and abusive practices of United States military interrogators at Guantanamo were the result of significant policy shifts at the highest levels of the U.S. government. Over the next three years, Mora waged a campaign inside the Bush Administration to prevent military and civilian leaders from codifying any policy that might implicitly or explicitly sanction the mistreatment of Guantanamo detainees as part of the war on terror.

Mora, a Republican who had led a distinguished career in public service and international law prior to his appointment to the Navy, argued that a policy allowing cruelty toward prisoners at Guantanamo left the door open for American military personnel to engage in torture of the kind that was later exposed at the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad, Iraq. Mora did not know of the abuse at Abu Ghraib when he warned Pentagon and other administration officials that the mistreatment of terror suspects and other prisoners would carry grave political consequences for the United States, and would expose U.S. interrogators and policy makers to criminal prosecution. In a 2004 internal memo to the Navy inspector general, Mora outlined his efforts to prevent the Administration from grounding policy in what he believed were flawed legal arguments that would permit the mistreatment of detainees and set off politically and morally disastrous chain reactions. The memo was made public in February 2006. Accounts of widespread prisoner abuse in Iraq, Afghanistan and at Guantanamo have continued to escalate. Earlier this year, Alberto Mora retired from his service to the U.S.government and returned to the private sector.

For his moral courage and his commitment to upholding American values, Alberto Mora was honored with the 2006 Profile in Courage Award.


Now that shows strength of character. Caroline Kennedy took a stand and called attention to a courageous Republican Bush appointee who took a stand against the horrible treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. This shows that she has a dedicated to human rights, believes in the rule of law, is not afraid to challenge a sitting President when she thinks he is wrong and can be very persuasive when needed.

There is a case to be made FOR Caroline Kennedy, the human being. I prefer that to the case for Caroline Kennedy being made on mere process. (Isn't that a cold and sterile way to choose people?)Her record is a couple of clicks away via Google. It details her exemplary list of achievements and can be used to build a case FOR her, not something just based on who can raise money or be the most famous.
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. In addition to her considerable achievements
she has consistently shunned the limelight in favor of having as normal a family life as possible. And, as far as I know, there are absolutely no scandals associated with her.

She would make an excellent addition to the Senate.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. Honestly
Edited on Sat Dec-06-08 12:03 PM by Jake3463
She stepped out for Obama in the Primaries and worked her ass off for him. She didn't have to do that. She could have stayed on the sidelines and not brought her name or her Uncle with her. She could have played it safe and waited and did a little work in the GE once there was a nominee. Her endorsement was a defining moment of the campaign and I believe she did it because she saw him as a great leader and believed in what he was saying. I've seen her speak on his behalf in person...in little Bethlehem, PA...that is the window into her soul I guess I've seen.

I know she's passionate about civil liberties. She serves on the NAACP legal defense committee and has written two books on that subject. I believe someone like that in the Senate is never a bad thing.

If she was interested in the Senate Seat and advancing her own political career she could have recommended Hillary for VP and went after it that way. I believe that while she was traveling and campaigning for Obama this year she met people and became more interested in serving in an elected capacity.

Political considerations...are always a consideration and always should be.



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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. She had supported
Senator Clinton's campaign in 2007. In January of '08, she decided to sipport Senator Obama. I think that is a good sign.
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bottomtheweaver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
45. And she's not in anybody's pocket.
Unless she's been investing heavily in KBR on the sly that is..
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
50. Nominated.
There are a number of solid, well-qualified choices. She is one of them. I'd be pleased to have her as one of my two Senators.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
51. I endorse Caroline Kennedy for the U.S. Senate
I think it would be a fantastic appointment, and she would make a helluva great senator.
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