Enough of this Obama citizenship nonsense. I want to know who Trig's mom is. New photo.

[Hamlette]

I couldn't put the pieces together for Bristol being the mom (because she is pregnant now) so I assumed it was Sarah but this photo was taken on March 26, three weeks before she gave birth.

Really? She gave birth to a 6 pound boy 23 days later?

So now I'm back in the conspiracy camp.

Who is the mom?

More pics here:

http://bojack.org/2008/12/sarah_palins_fake_pregnancy_be.html

[mkultra]

1. welcome home, im with ya

Bristol is the mom. **cue soap opera musix**

[beachmom]

3. Or Sarah lied about vital pieces of her birth story at least.

That part of the story is hard to believe, and it is what led to the other suspicions.

[gblady]

7. that's what....

some folks I know think, too...

[Hamlette]

8. but Bristol is pregnant now, if she gives birth before Feb, she chould not be the mom

are they faking Bristol's current pregnancy? Or just saying she is more pregnant than she is?

These ppl are such liars you can't get a read on 'em.

Jon was right, they are grifters.

[Blu Dahlia]

16. she got pregnant immediately after trig was born out of anger

and rebellion

[polichick]

18. I think Trig is Bristol's and this new pregnancy is a fake, yes...

I'd like to see some recent pics of Bristol.

[d_b]

42. yep yep

[mkultra]

118. this is the best theory imo.

[WinkyDink]

24. "Bristol is pregnant now"---And we KNOW this how?

[beachmom]

2. I read Sully's post on it. He points out that this does not equal the

Obama citizenship C.T. because at least there there is a birth certificate. We still don't have that from Sarah Palin.

I don't know what to think. I just know she has lied in the past, and that she still is nor will she ever be remotely qualified to be President.

[Land Shark]

17. The calls for original birth certificates will reinforce one another nt

[eridani]

48. Yes indeedy. I usually slice up overly complex theories like this with Occam's razor

However, let the online investigations continue! Why not try to out-Watergate these assholes? And sometimes the convoluted explanation turns out to be the correct one.

[greendog]

4. Sarah announced her pregnancy 1 day after...

...John McCain clinched the Republican nomination and "gave birth" just a few weeks later.

I think the baby came from the Religious Right's network of pregnancy counseling centers. Dobson & Co. fixed her up with the baby to make her a better sell to the kook base.

[rvablue]

39. Now that is an interesting tidbit in the timeline that hasn't been mentioned before

Interesting.......:popcorn:

Love news FACTS.

Although the second part of your post is a little bit too tin foil hat for me, the first party is very, very "coincidental".

[polichick]

45. Or that's when she decided to claim her daughter's baby.

[JI7]

5. isn't Bristol supposed to have the baby this month ?

[City Lights]

23. Yes. I believe she's due around the 18th. nt

[zulchzulu]

6. New Palin frame: "It was a miracle!!!"

Palindrama has the Evangelical Right all gussied up to her, so she can say it was a divine baby... albeit now merely a prop.

[JBear]

9. Show me a picture of Bristol today...

I am also in this camp, but I am really curious why there has been not so much as a photo of Bristol since the convention. I half expected the October surprise to be a Bristol miscarriage 3 days before the election (OK, that would have been a November surprise). But hey, we all knew already that I was way out there!!!

:bounce:

[rainbow4321]

126. Here is one from Election Day

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4592251&mesg_id=4595367


Looking at the photo, I don't think it was meant for public consumption...someone (media?) took a random pic of her in what looks like a convenience store..notice how the other people in the pic look like they are trying to kind of hide her by forming a human circle around her. Guess they thought the shelf of junk food in front of her would hide her not-much-bigger-than-convention-night belly. They were wrong, obviously.

Her left ring finger engagement (?) ring is gone, too..the one that she was wearing before/during the convention. Maybe it was one of the "accessories" that Palin had to return from her shopping spree.

[rocktivity]

128. And she would be right

The last time something like this happened, a new star appeared in the sky and three wise men came from the east.

:evilgrin:
rocknation

[yardwork]

10. I don't think that Bristol is pregnant now. I think she gave birth to Trig last spring.

We haven't seen Bristol since her mom was nominated because as the days go by, Bristol loses her pregnancy weight, becoming thinner, not bigger with child.

That's my opinion.

[marlakay]

11. Okay here's my guess, I think when she found out

about her daughter she started wearing a pregnancy belt but why she would pose for photos that one gets me. You would think as a gov she would have been more careful but maybe she trusted this mother.

I also don't think she had a clue McCain would pick her and that is why she even dared do such a thing and from what I have read he picked her before he knew about the whole mess.

Her daughter will have a miscarriage probably...I have been waiting for this. But I wouldn't put it past the republicans to find a baby for her either!

[Occam Bandage]

12. She looks pregnant enough to me there. She's bending forward.

[JonLP24]

13. I thought down syndrome babies were common for older women?

:shrug:

Not common, but from what I've been told women that are just a little too old to have babies sometimes have down syndrome babies.

[JonLP24]

14. I found a graph of Age of woman related to babies with down syndrome

Sorry guys, I'm not with you on this one. I'm convinced Trig is Sarah's baby.

[GoesTo11]

40. There is also higher risk of Downs at the low end of the age spectrum.

Your graph goes down to 20. But it's more common for very young mothers, like Bristol would have been.

[JonLP24]

54. You're probaly right

I just haven't heard of such a thing or seen it. My wife had her first kid when she was 16 and he is as healthy as an ox, her mom had her when she was 14 and she is healthy except for the fact she has diabetes, and as well numerous people I grew up with that had kids had young ages. But of course there is always exceptions with every age group according the graph. I just was always informed it's always at the older end of the group but I will take your word for it. :)

[Crunchy Frog]

70. Only a very slightly increased risk.

About the same as for the late 20s. Nowhere near what it is for a woman in her 40s.

[Occam Bandage]

15. Yes. She's clearly pregnant in that photo (when you consider that she's leaning forward),

the baby has Down Syndrome, and her daughter is currently pregnant at the moment. This is a ridiculous conspiracy.

[polichick]

20. You don't look like that just before delivering a FIFTH child.

[Diane R]

29. And you don't look as slender as she did on the campaign trail after delivering child #5.

[polichick]

30. Exactly!

[jberryhill]

35. Oh nonsense - while there are "general trends", everyone's particular medical situation varies

I've known people who have never gotten their figure back after one, and I've known people who have been skinny as a rail within a few weeks after the third set of twins.

Some women carry higher, lower, larger, or smaller, thoroughly at random, and at odds with any stack of old-wives tales about pregnancy or general trends.

Maybe she had cosmetic surgery done after the birth *because* she knew that Kristol et al. were lobbying for her to be the VP pick. Maybe she didn't want to release her medical records because the world doesn't need to know if she got her va-jay-jay tightened as long as she was in the shop. I sure as hell don't need or want to know.

All this speculation is hogwash.

[polichick]

41. "people who have been skinny as a rail within a few weeks after...

...the third set of twins."

You must be a guy.

[jberryhill]

46. I have calibrated this observation against that of other women in the office

...and they agree.

The individual in question is on the thin side, and she had, I kid you not, her third set of twins, was back on the job in three weeks, and looked like she had a year before.

However, I see no reason to rule out cosmetic surgery here.

[JonLP24]

58. Sarah Palin returned to work after 3 days

I never been around pregnancy so is that possible? I'm not convinced it's Bristol's baby but I'm starting to ask question such as who in their right mind would advise someone in labar to take an 8 hour flight?

[jberryhill]

90. Humans have been reproducing a long time....

You can find agricultural societies where women return to work after 3 minutes.

It's not an illness - and especially not the fifth time.

Who in their right mind? A right-winger who wanted to have an "accidental" miscarriage, having already known that she was carrying a Down Syndrome baby which many other women who are not in politically-charged positions might choose not to carry to term. That's who.

[JonLP24]

93. I know humans have been reproducing for a long time

I'm not a woman and I never been pregnant so I wasn't sure one way or the other if it was common to return to work that soon. It was just something I wasn't sure of, I'm aware it's a painful experience and it might take some time to recover.

You don't need to tell me it's not an illness. I'm not stupid. Anyways I found this article that clears some things up for me regarding her 8 hour flight.

Palin said she felt fine but had leaked amniotic fluid and also felt some contractions that seemed different from the false labor she had been having for months.

"I said I am going to stay for the day. I have a speech I was determined to give," Palin said. She gave the luncheon keynote address for the energy conference.

Palin kept in close contact with Baldwin-Johnson. The contractions slowed to one or two an hour, "which is not active labor," the doctor said.

"Things were already settling down when she talked to me," Baldwin-Johnson said. Palin did not ask for a medical OK to fly, the doctor said.

"I don't think it was unreasonable for her to continue to travel back," Baldwin-Johnson said.

So the Palins flew on Alaska Airlines from Dallas to Anchorage, stopping in Seattle and checking with the doctor along the way.

"I am not a glutton for pain and punishment. I would have never wanted to travel had I been fully engaged in labor," Palin said. After four kids, the governor said, she knew what labor felt like, and she wasn't in labor.
http://zfacts.com/p/1041.html

[jberryhill]

98. Amnio leaks

Some women will leak some fluid, think their water broke, and rush to the hospital when they are nowhere near labor.

By the fifth time around, people tend to learn a thing or two.

If the race were a physical fitness contest, she'd have won above the other three candidates hands down (Obama's in good shape, but he gets demerits for having smoked).

"I'm not a woman and I never been pregnant"

Okay, well you covered both bases there. Heh. You have to be pretty sleepy by now.

[shimmergal]

110. Returning to work after 3 days

is the one part of the story I don't find hard to believe.

In a job like governor, presumably all she'd have to do is go into the office and work at her desk a few hours. A lot less strenuous than all the housework and child care that many women have to do after bringing the baby home.

[tblue37]

77. Has anyone seen what Angelina Jolie looks like? She recently had twins, about two

years after giving birth to Shiloh--and yet she lookes very slender and muscular. Some women just win the genetics lottery.

Nevertheless, I still suspect that Trig is Bristol's baby. I just don't think Sarah's slimness on the campaign trail is evidence.

[JonLP24]

89. I agree

Many actresses with the exception of Britney lose the weight pretty quickly and I think alot of that has to do with physical training as many of these actresses have personal trainers.

[Tutonic]

132. The post said "three weeks before". Angelina Jolie always appeared

very pregnant BEFORE she gave birth. This photo clearly reveals that the woman is not pregnant.

[SharonAnn]

83. Actually, some do. My mother had eight children, never looked much more than 5 maybe 6 months

along, and always slimmed way down almost immediately. It was just the way her body worked. And she was a small woman who had babies that were all between 7.5 and 8.5 pounds and over 21 inches long. Her sisters were almost the same. They didn't lose quite as much weight afterwards but were still slim.

[jberryhill]

19. Yeah, and fetal alcohol syndrome babies are common for younger women

Your point?

(i.e. for the sake of argument, can you provide your source for Trig's diagnosis?)

[polichick]

21. Never thought of that - are you suggesting he has fetal alcohol syndrome...

...rather than downs?

There have been reports that Bristol is a heavy alcohol and drug abuser.

[jberryhill]

25. No, I'm just playing "let's make a rumor"

The Palin family tree is of zero interest or relevance to anything really.

In the "new" photo, she looks to me like she could be pregnant. Angle, lighting, clothing... who knows. Andrew Sullivan has an obsession with this stuff.

The other comment I'm making, though, is the circularity of relying on the Palin family's representation of their infant's condition as some sort of "proof" that some other representation of the Palin family is true.

But seriously, what does it matter? Casual intra-family "adoptions" are not unheard of, and it's their business, not mine.

[polichick]

26. For a fifth child, that would have to be an early pregancy...

But I think people are interested because it would pretty outrageous to lie to the whole world like that.

[JonLP24]

27. My point is

The fact that the % of down syndrome babies with older women is higher then that of 17 year olds leads me to believe that Trig is Sarah's baby.

This is the best proof I can provide but realize I'm not Palin's doctor so I really can't prove it.
---------------------------

Gov. Sarah Palin was back at work today, holding a meeting on the natural gas pipeline three days after giving birth to her fifth child.

Palin and her husband, Todd, showed the baby, Trig Paxson Van Palin, to a few reporters and talked about the sooner-than-expected delivery.

Trig arrived about a month early and has Down syndrome, the governor confirmed. Testing during early pregnancy revealed the condition. Palin said she was sad at first but they now feel blessed that God chose them. The couple has lots of family support, she said.

Palin was in Texas at a Republican Governors Association energy conference last week when early signs of labor began. She said she called her doctor early Thursday morning after some amniotic fluid began to leak. She talked over what was happening with her doctor, and they consulted about what to do.

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/382560.html

Now can anyone making these claims provide me proof that Trig is Bristol's baby other then a photo and speculation? I'll ask snopes and see if they get back to me because they haven't tackled this issue yet. I'll look up factcheck.org after posting this to see if they have anything. The burden of proof lies on the accuser.

[JonLP24]

31. This unrelated rumor actually tackles the Trig baby issue

In a surprising twist, the rumor (Trig being Bristol's baby) was put to rest a few days later by the revelation that 17-year-old Bristol was already 5 months pregnant and therefore could not of possible given birth 5 months earlier.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bristolbaby.asp

[jberryhill]

32. I understand your point, you don't understand mine

What makes you think Trig has Down Syndrome?

Your "evidence" that Trig has Down Syndrome also says that Trig is Sarah's child. Why not just rely on the statement that Trig is Sarah's child?

Frankly, I don't care, and the whole subject seems pretty dumb to me one way or the other. It's nobody's business but the family.

But, anyways, just for the purpose of playing the stupid rumor game, I'll make the point clearer: The "Down Syndrome" thing is just a cover story for fetal alcohol syndrome / crack baby, or whatever. By calling it "Down Syndrome" it reinforces the story that Trig is Sarah's child, because, as you point out, the probability increases dramatically with age.

So Bristol's alcohol abuse was something of a "bonus" here, since it allowed the Palins to claim Trig had Down Syndrome. See how simple that is?


Anywho, she looks pregnant in that picture, and I don't doubt the baby is hers.

[JonLP24]

38. I said that was the best I had

And clearly said I'm not her doctor. The reason why I believe her is because she would know better then anyone next to her doctor that her baby has down syndrome. If you told me your baby had down syndrome I would believe you. Plus I find it pointless for her to lie about it.

[jberryhill]

44. The structure of an argument

Sigh.

As a refutation to "Trig is Bristol's baby", then your argument reduces to "Sarah says it is her baby."

The detour into "she also says it has Down Syndrome, and that increases with age" doesn't logically add anything to the argument, because you are ultimately relying on a statement of Sarah Palin to refute an assertion that Sarah Palin is lying.

To be clear - I *agree* with you, and I thing the "Trig is not her baby" stuff is stupid.

I was just pointing out that relying on source A, when the assertion is "source A is lying", doesn't make any sense.

Yes, when someone tells one lie, there are often subsidiary and supporting lies which are intended to reinforce the primary lie.

Consider:

Hypothesis 1 - Sarah Palin is telling the truth

"Sarah Palin says it is her baby"
"Sarah Palin says her baby has Down Syndrome"

Hypothesis 2 - Sarah Palin is not telling the truth

"Sarah Palin says it is her baby"
"Sarah Palin says her baby has Down Syndrome"

Under either hypothesis, the observation that "Sarah Palin says her baby has Down Syndrome" does not increase or decrease the likelihood that it is her baby. Under hypothesis 1, it is an extraneous fact. Under hypothesis 2, it is simply a supporting lie, because it reinforces the lie that it is her baby. Both observations come from the same source.

Maybe I'm not being clear. The point is that if you are going to take her word for it that Trig has Down Syndrome, then what have you gained over taking her word that Trig is her child?

But - AGAIN - it's the logic of your argument I'm trying noodle out. I agree with you as to the conclusion anyway.

[JonLP24]

50. This is what I said originally.

This is the best proof I can provide but realize I'm not Palin's doctor so I really can't prove it.

You asked me to prove something I can't possibly do unless I have a statement from a doctor or something like that so to complete your task I pulled whatever I possibly could.

Also I'm not trying to win the argument. I'm just telling you why I believe the baby has down syndrome, I don't care if you're telling Sarah is lying. I can't possibly win the argument at all unless I have some kind of medical record saying Trig is the baby which I can't provide, nor do I have the resources to find such a thing so that is not my goal. I just told you what I believed to be true and why such as I don't feel there is a reason to lie about a baby's condition.

So you win the argument because I can't prove Sarah is telling the truth but I'm maintaining the belief that she is.

[jberryhill]

91. What's fascinating

...is that you don't understand that I agree with you.

You're either just skimming, or not grasping the point.

[JonLP24]

102. I've read that you agree with me

I was just responding to the other points in your last post. I was responding to your hypothesis of an argument and explained why I said what I said. One thing about me is my thought process or thinking jumps all over the place. I used to know the word for it but I can't remember it and I've been trying to find it which is taking me so long to respond. Usually in an argument or debate or something like that I sometimes I end up going in circles with the other person. Like if I'm having a discussion with someone in reality (Not on the web) I usually end up forgetting what was the original conflicting point of view and end up addressing the very last thing said to me. I know I'm not making any sense primarily because I also have a hard time putting what's on my mind into the correct words. I end up using subsitute or similar words instead of using the right word that I can't think of.

[Crunchy Frog]

71. He actually has very distinctive facial features

that are characteristic of Down Syndrome. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome has a very different set of features associated with it. It's grasping at straws to claim that Trig doesn't have DS.

[Zynx]

75. No offense, but that's a pretty poor reading of statistics.

Sure, the risk is higher for older women, but that doesn't rule out younger women having children with Down Syndrome.

[JonLP24]

76. No that wasn't my reading at all

My reading was given the probability, Trig is likely to be Sarah's baby. Clearly in the graph there is exceptions in every age category. I apologize for misleading you.

[Zynx]

78. That doesn't mean very much of anything.

Just because a probability of an event is higher for a certain group does not mean that if a member of that group has that event happen to them that is then the definitive conclusion.

[JonLP24]

81. What did I just say?

Likely and that there was exceptions in every category. It would be foolish for me to make definitive conclusions when the graph clearly shows exceptions in every category.

If you read other posts I never said definitive conclusion. I've heard of the rumors for months and given that the baby has 'down syndrome' according to Sarah Palin and given her age the combination it is believable that Sarah is indeed the mother is the case I was making. Sorry if I am not making alot of sense, I have a hard time sleeping at night so to avoid sleeping during the day I'm staying awake so I can fall asleep tonight. I've been up for a little over 26 hours.

BTW, my only purpose of posting the graph was to validate what I said before without sources that down syndrome babies were more common for older women then younger women. Not to prove Sarah is the father.

I will tell you want actual conclusions I have came to so you understand, ok? Trig has down syndrome according to Sarah Palin, no other sources. All 5 of those children are Sarah Palin's according to Sarah Palin and every single major news outlet but they probaly say that because Sarah Palin says they're hers. She was pregnant for 7 months before she announced it and her staff didn't notice. She took an 8 hour flight to Alaska while in labor which seems strange and there are reports Alaskan flight attendents said she didn't visibly appear pregnant, and she returned to work after 3 days since she claimed she had another child which I'm not sure is unusual yet. The fact she is average size after giving birth doesn't suprise me considering she is athletic. I can't think of anything else right now but those are conclusions I came up with and none of them are definitive.

[jberryhill]

92. "I've been up for a little over 26 hours"

Ooookay... mebbe you might try the Lounge. Have you had this sleep problem a long time?

[JonLP24]

97. Over 10 years

Even if I correct my schedule it always returns to up at night and sleep during the day. Ambien, melatonin, stuff like that doesn't work. Seraquel. It would knock me out within 15 minutes with no sleep disturbances but I was very drowsy at the time I was supposed to awake.

DU and LOTS of coffee is what is keeping me awake. Usually I never see a topic worth discussing in the lounge. :)

Sorry if I came across as rude, I feel a little ticked and it isn't your fault.

[jberryhill]

108. I never see a topic worth discussing in the lounge.

Start one.

They all have sleep disorders in there. I'm sure it would be a popular topic.

[JonLP24]

109. Thanks but no thanks

I rather not.

[No Elephants]

86. Older fathers correlate directly with Downs also.

[proud2BlibKansan]

103. So do teenagers

:)

[Iris]

125. If a woman can get pregnant, she's not "too old" to have babies.

not even "a little"

[Feron]

22. Baby bumps vary by individual and pregnancy.

And it's not uncommon for a slim woman to not show much. Additionally bump sizes do not indicate how big the baby is.

There is also no evidence that Bristol is Trig's mother. None.

Sarah Palin hangs herself with her own words. There is no need to invent conspiracy theories about her.

[sledgehammer]

28. Yes there's no evidence but...

...there's a lot of circumstantial stuff that gives more weight to pictures like these. Mainly her bizarre actions after her water broke in Texas:

- Refusing medical attention for a premature child with Down's Syndrome, especially when it's your fifth pregnancy.

- Giving a speech to a conference and then flying from Texas to Alaska (well over 8 hours), with a stopover in Seattle.

- Not informing the flight attendants, and the flight attendants not noticing anything different about her.

- Not informing the state govt in Alaska or an ambulance that she was arriving. Rather, driving alone with her husband to a regional hospital an hour away, while skipping past a couple of major hospitals on the way.

I don't know of anyone in this world who would make such decisions after her water broke. Either she's more than happy to intentionally endanger the life of an unborn child, or she wasn't pregnant.

When you add these actions with her photos, her late announcement to her staffers (who were totally taken off-guard), the fact that many photos were taken off the Alaska state website when the story broke, Bristol not attending school for the same period of time, the hospital not providing a birth announcement on its website, Palin not releasing her full medical records, etc. it becomes more than just a bit fishy.

Now, I would be more than happy to leave this as a personal decision for her and her family to deal with. But, first she touts her pro-lifeiness like crazy, when in fact she has no regard for her own unborn child's life. Second, it could be a direct reflection of her integrity - is she claiming the child to be her own on tax forms, legal documents, etc? Third, she talks about small-town family values and wants to ban contraception/abortion for all, yet it's possible her own teenage daughter could be pregnant for a second time in a year.

You are right - Palin does enough to screw herself over, and provide limitless entertainment to all of us. But it's her sickening hypocrisy (reflective of so many "religious" right-wing nuts) that gets to me, and that's why I'm ok with this story still hanging around.

[jberryhill]

47. And here we goo.....

These actions are entirely consistent with someone who, while unable to have an abortion for political reasons, would not be too upset with "accidentally" losing the child.

[sledgehammer]

51. "Entirely consistent" with the actions of an insane person

There is no woman I know of who would ever take even a fraction of the actions she took. Forget what side of the political/religious/socioeconomic spectrum she falls on. Your water breaks - you head for the hospital. Simple as that. You don't go on long flights with a stopover.

I do agree with you that for a lot of people, losing the child "accidentally" (even though it would be intentional given her choice of actions) is in a totally different league than abortion.

[jberryhill]

82. The world has more personalities in it than the people you personally know

There is a long and storied history of women "accidentally" falling down the stairs, "accidentally" taking poison, and all manner of "accidents" staged for the purpose of terminating a pregnancy.

Now, there is no particular pre-natal treatment required for Down Syndrome. One of the arguments that comes up in connection with pre-natal diagnoses of various diseases is that the anti-choicers argue that some tests should not be routinely done, since they are only do, so it is alleged, for the purpose of deciding whether to terminate a pregnancy.

So the question becomes, "why does Sarah Palin - a staunch pro-lifer - have the test done in the first place?"

Against the background of "convenient accidents" (which can include self deception) undertaken to avoid medical abortion, indeed there are "pro lifers" who test for conditions requiring no medical intervention, but which other women do use to decide whether to carry a pregnancy to term.

[DemBones DemBones]

94. Genetic testing gives pro-life women time to prepare for a special needs baby

and thus some elect to have it. Obstetricians can be quite overbearing about insisting on aminocentesis as well.

One couple I know told the obstetrician that they would not abort the baby in any case and didn't want to take the risk of amniocentesis, small though it may be. He said they'd have to find another obstetrician and stormed out of the room. Doctors with God complexes are not nice.

[jberryhill]

99. ...which is also a justification or "cover" for having the testing done

People's consciences play all sorts of tricks on them, and nobody is immune from that (unless they have some sort of personality disorder).

It's like the "dual purpose" doctrine in end-of-life care. Euthanasia is not legal. Treating pain is legal. Eventually one can reach a point where the morphine required to kill the pain will depress respiration to the point of lethality. As long as you are treating the pain, you are not engaging in euthanasia.

In a lot of these threads, though, you'll see opinions to the effect that Down Syndrome is some sort of pregnancy complication.

Now, it is true that Down Syndrome infants can be more susceptible to pathogenic organisms. So what do you do? Why, take the infant with you to meetings of thousands of assembled strangers, of course.

[berni_mccoy]

33. Palin has an Extra-Dimensional Void Inside that allows her to hold

A baby without looking pregnant. That void is where her heart is supposed to be.

[sledgehammer]

34. Make that two voids then...

There's definitely one in her head as well!

[jakem]

36. and brain. she could hide twins!

[berni_mccoy]

52. Very true.

[polichick]

37. Best explanation yet! :)

[Crunchy Frog]

73. The first plausible explanation that I've seen.

:D

[JVS]

43. Yell yeah! Where is this December baby they used for cover?

[Phx_Dem]

49. I'm not convinced one way or the other. I think it's definitely an open question.

One of the main reasons I'm unconvinced that Palin is Trig's mother is that she could very easily put this to rest by releasing a copy of Trig's birth certificate. What's the big deal? The fact that she hasn't done this and she doesn't look pregnant in photos keeps the question alive.

[polichick]

53. Funny that nobody's getting photos of Bristol these days - is she locked up somewhere??

[LynneSin]

55. US magazine published a picture of when she was 6 months pregnant with one of the older kids

and what would have been 6 months with Trig.

Seriously, she did not look pregnant.

I have said several times that if Bristol has a 'miscarriage' then there was never a pregnancy to begin with. By making Bristol 5months pregnant it would be impossible for her to be pregnant again.

But honestly, at this point I don't care who Trig's mom is since personally - I don't give a shit about any of these idiots anymore.

Btw, I also suspect that Bristol and Levi were only going to get married if Sarah was elected as VP. I highly doubt that is happening too. I mean think about it - why wait so long? If she was expecting, what better publicity promo than to have your VP on the ticket host a wedding, pre-election, for her daughter.

It ain't happening, the marriage, that I truly believe.

[JonLP24]

56. Oh shit. I'm second guessing myself

Secret's out: Palin pregnant (03/06/08)

SEVEN MONTHS ALONG: Even her staff was unaware that the first family was expecting a fifth child.

JUNEAU -- Gov. Sarah Palin shocked and awed just about everybody around the Capitol on Wednesday when she announced she's expecting her fifth child.

http://www.adn.com/front/story/336402.html

Ok her staff didn't notice? Definately not a smoking gun but very telling. Snopes did say it wouldn't be possible for a 5 month pregnant Bristol to have a child less then 5 months ago. But I don't know for a fact how far Bristol is in her pregnancy nor did Snopes provide a source for that paticular subject(Because it was tackling another rumor that a young black man was claiming to be the father of the baby Bristol is currently carrying.)

[sledgehammer]

57. Yep

Her staff had no idea. That's just one of the fishy signs (see post 28 for more).

Here's the best explanation I have heard (somewhere on the web a few months back):

- Bristol got pregnant and was taken out of school to prevent embarrassment/damage for Palin and her political aspirations (correlates with the absence from school for "mono")
- Family planned to give child up for adoption and keep everything quiet. That's fine - I'm totally ok with that.
- At some point, child was determined to have Down's Syndrome, so the adopting parents bailed out.
- Now Palin decides to claim she's pregnant to cover it all up, and everyone is surprised.
- While in Texas, Palin hears that Bristol is about to deliver, so she rushes back to the Alaska hospital that Bristol is in (taking a series of extremely dangerous steps that no mother I know of would ever take).

Now, this would mean that the hospital staff is involved a bit in the coverup. I don't think that's too hard.

It's also interesting that an extremely healthy person like Palin refused to release her medical records. Not saying she had to (it's her choice), but it just adds to the doubt.

[polichick]

60. The delivering doctor was given a seat on some medical board by Palin.

[JonLP24]

61. Wouldn't be the first time hospital staff attempted to cover something up

An example? Plaxico Burress.

[mitchum]

115. THAT is the scenario I have been going with ever since that fraud was introduced...

it explains all the "strange and curious details"
and it IS what happened

[polichick]

59. There was also reporting about the airline crew working her flight from...

Texas to Alaska, when she was supposedly in labor. They said she didn't appear pregnant.

[JonLP24]

62. I saw that too

Now I understand why some of you feel this way. At first I thought it was ridiculous but there are things about this that make you go hmmmm.

[polichick]

69. It's a weird story alright!

[Raschel]

64. That is just crazy. None of it makes sense. I entertain the 'Palin is not the mom' theory

because along with the very odd stories concerning her flight, office staff, airplane staff, Palin is one HUGE liar. I really could see her lying about this.

[polichick]

65. I could see it too - her arrogance knows no bounds.

[sledgehammer]

66. Here you go...

“Governor Palin was extremely pleasant to flight attendants and her stage of pregnancy was not apparent by observation as she didn’t show any signs of distress,” Boren said.

http://www.newsminer.com/news/2008/apr/22/palins-flight-labor-falls-under-scrutiny/

[polichick]

68. Ah-ha!

[sledgehammer]

72. Also...

Trig was born on 4/18/08 (according to http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/380134.html).

So here's the list of people born on that date at the Mat-Su Regional Hospital:

http://www.matsuregional.com/nursery/show_day.php?date=2008-04-18

No Trig! And nothing on the next day or previous day either (allowing for a margin of error here!).

[polichick]

74. Plus, Palin supposedly gave the doc a position on some medical board...

I'm surprised there isn't a reporter doing follow-ups on this ~ at least pics of Bristol.

(oops, I already mentioned the medical board.)

[jberryhill]

85. Melissa Drexler - the "Prom Mom"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melissa_Drexler

On June 6, 1997, the day of her senior prom, the eighteen-year-old's water broke in the morning, and she later suffered contractions on her way to the banquet hall. Upon arrival, she retreated to the restroom, where the baby was born in about 15–30 minutes. According to her allocution, Drexler then retrieved the baby from the toilet bowl, cut the umbilical cord on the bathroom fixtures, wrapped the baby in several garbage sacks, and deposited the bundle in a trash can. She then went to the dance floor and, according to witnesses, "appeared to be just as she always was" and "exhibited indications of somebody enjoying the prom." Some reports at the time stated that she requested the song "The Unforgiven" by Metallica, but later reports denied this. However, others alleged that she ate a salad and danced afterwards.

[Renegade08]

101. And how often do women not know they're pregnant?

You can doubt all you want, but, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence to suggest that, at the very least, something really odd went on with her "pregnancy."

But, to me, the "proof" that there's a scandal here is the fact that Palin refuses to do the obvious thing to bury the story - reveal the birth certificate. Obama's birth certificate was revealed, even though there was zero validity to the crazy rumors. So, Palin could easily have done the same thing, and she could still do so, at anytime, and the story would go away and all the crazy bloggers will have been exposed as conspiracy theory nutjobs, like those wingnut crazies about Obama's birth.

So, why hasn't she produced the birth certificate?

[jberryhill]

107. Because it is not relevant to any legitimate question?

Just a guess there.

Trig is not running for office, and is an infant human - with rights.

[Renegade08]

116. And Obama's birth certificate was relevant to a legitimate question?

Stop obfuscating the real issue. The real issue is whether Sarah Palin has lied about Trig being her baby. If you don't understand why the question of Palin's veracity on this question is highly relevant and of public interest, then you're deluding yourself for who knows what reason.

[jberryhill]

120. Ah, yes, I have a secret agenda

Sarah Palin has lied about the bridge to nowhere, troopergate, her clothes... that woman lies every time she opens her mouth. Her lies are epic and relevant to her claimed political, uh, talent.

Obama's birth certificate demonstrates that he is over 35 and a natural born citizen. As if one had to ask, but we know the question is really a stalking horse for racists who believe he possesses some sort of insurmountable "otherness".

Sarah Palin's children (and/or claimed children), and Barack's children are minors, and have thus not made a willful adult decision to thrust themselves onto the stage of public scrutiny and sotto voce discussion.

Minors have rights and their parents' decisions do not alter those rights. Whether Sarah Palin deems fit to treat them as props is not our license to treat them as such. They are humans with rights, who have not reached the age of majority.

[jberryhill]

84. Yeah - and how many stories have you read about teenagers who hide pregnancies

...all the way to term, and abandon their babies.

Do a google search on neonaticide - women conceal pregnancies OFTEN and SUCCESSFULLY

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/display.php?id=20483

Prosecutors portrayed the teenager from Jamaica as a calculating young woman who had hidden her pregnancy because she feared that immigration authorities would discover she was staying in the U.S. on an expired visitor's visa. They said she had lied to friends and family about being pregnant, despite many opportunities to reveal her condition, so as not to jeopardize her comfortable life in Maryland. She had even timed the moment when she placed the newborn in the trash, prosecutors said, to ensure that the garbage truck would crush the baby and conceal her secret.

In her defense, Montague maintained that she hadn't known she was pregnant until her delivery. Then she panicked and hid the baby in the trash until she could figure out how to tell the family she was staying with about the birth. She said she intended to go back for the child.

[polichick]

111. It's MUCH easier to hide a first pregnancy than a second - or a FIFTH!

[Nailzberg]

63. Track Palin and his g/f are the parents.

my story and I'm sticking to it.

[polichick]

67. Well, there's also the story about him only going into the military to avoid jail...

Maybe Track and his g/f are both criminals. ;)

[emdee]

79. I think she's the mom ---- but hubby isn't the father....

The Reps would leak that she might not be the mother so that the issue of who the father is wouldn't come up. The business partner is probably the father.

[polichick]

113. ooooh, and the plot thickens!

[sandyd921]

80. Maybe the baby of someone other than Bristol?

Like a friend or acquaintance? Here"s the possible scenario: the real mother found out that the baby has Down syndrome through an amniocentesis and had decided to have an abortion. Sarah talked her out of it (being so strongly anti-choice) and said she would take the baby and pretend that she gave birth to him. Plausible? We'll probably never know the real story behind this supposed pregnancy and birth.

[jberryhill]

87. Hey - SO-CALLED DEMOCRATS - ISN'T THIS PRIVATE?

I can't believe this crap.

Roe v. Wade is premised on a right to PRIVACY with respect to reproductive and other medical issues.

Y'all want to go up some teenage girl's vagina, and have her abdomen paraded in public for photographs, to satisfy some morbid moral curiousity?

Sarah Palin is one of the most idiotic and unreflective national politicians ever. Can we leave her uterus, and her daughter's uterus out of it?

Seriously.

[DemBones DemBones]

96. Best post on this topic. nt

[polichick]

112. The point, of course, is THE LIE. It's always the cover-up.

[sledgehammer]

121. Not interested in anything related to Bristol Palin...

Bristol is pregnant with a child right now. Her pregnancy is her business, and hers alone. I hope that she and her child live a great life, and that her privacy is respected.

The issue is whether Palin is lying about having a child. There is enough circumstantial evidence to create some level of doubt. And if she is lying, it's an amazing show of hypocrisy and lack of integrity. Especially for someone who praises her Christian family values, promotes abstinence-only education, and parades her family as stage props.

There are potential legal ramifications of this e.g. how is she filing taxes, has she forged birth certificates, has she hushed up hospital staff, etc. These violations are not covered under the 14th Amendment / Roe vs Wade, and they need to be investigated. Some of these could be impeachable offenses. We can't keep letting the right wing nuts get away with their blatant hypocrisy.

Palin is the issue, not Bristol. Bristol could be pregnant, get an abortion, whatever. None of my business. She should do whatever makes her happy.

[jberryhill]

122. The tax thing...

Palin has other tax problems.

And, whom you claim as a dependent has nothing to do with how you are related to them. It is a fact question about whether you are supporting a minor dependent - any minor dependent, no matter whose child it is.

[sledgehammer]

124. Good point! Thanks. n/t

[WinkyDink]

133. Ken Starr put paid to this concept.

[loyalsister]

137. Thank you so very much!

I have taken that pro-choice stance on this issue as well.
I have been very frustrated with the idea that there is justification to invade a woman's privacy because a very different sort of invasion of privacy happened to a man 10 years ago.
There are questions to askk about the pursuit of an investigation of a pregancy.
Is it justifiable to for innocent parties be disrupted?
What is justice?
More importantly what is the precedent- past or future- is this seriously something that should eventually be undertaken under the slightest suspicion? Is it fair to open that door?

[mitchum]

88. What fundy broodmare doesn't announce an impending birth for 6 months?

[DemBones DemBones]

95. One who's a governor. Also one who has

learned the baby has Down syndrome, is adjusting to that reality. This pregnancy may have been a surprise to the parents, too, which also requires adjustment. It's really nobody's business whether a woman is pregnant or not so announcing it is her choice.

Sarah Palin didn't show enough to be noticed by women who worked in her office. Maybe she's have shown in the last month but Trig was born a month early. There is no story here.

[mitchum]

100. And why would a fundy broodmare have the test that revealed...

Down Syndrome?
Seems out of character for a fundy broodmare, doesn't it?

[DemBones DemBones]

114. See my post 94. With all the people who insist on

knowing whether they're having a boy or a girl so they can paint the room the right color, why wouldn't an older couple want to know if they'll be having a special needs child? It gives time to think about how they'll cope. But there's more in post 94 so check it out.

[atimetocome]

134. thanks. Yes. I would want to know.

[Grateful for Hope]

104. She does look pregnant

She, as far as I have seen since last September, has a very small waist/mid-section. In this pic, there is nothing small about her mid-section. She is also trying to minimize it judging by her pose -- she is bending forward.

I think SP is very vain, and, did not like looking pregnant one bit.

[mitchum]

105. Well, she must be "pregnant" again...

because she looked a bit thicker in the middle when she was rallying the peckerwoods in Georgia this week

[Grateful for Hope]

106. I can only go by what I have seen

And, I really doubt that she lied about the pregnancy. What I find reprehensible is that she has not demonstrated that she is a mother who loves and cares for her kids. Most important, she has not demonstrated that she seriously cares for the well-being of a little one who has severe issues.

Even if she were the grandmother of this little guy, if she had any decency inside her, he would not have been paraded around during the campaign.

She is scum as far as I am concerned.

[Phx_Dem]

117. Personally, I don't give shit who Trig's mom is, but I want to know

if Palin is the kind of person who would lie about her "son's" birth. Because if she has lied to the public during all these months -- even before she was nominated as McCain's VP candidate -- then, she deserves to be drummed out of public office for the rest of her phony, lying life.

If she is his mother, just release the birth certificate and end this discussion? Why not? I don't get it.

[Catherine Vincent]

119. She looks pregnant in that pic to me.

:shrug:

[PresidentObama]

123. This is the stupidest shit I've ever heard, and I hate Palin n/t

[rocktivity]

127. Maybe the mother is a girl her son knocked up

you know, the one who joined the Army after being convicted of vandalism.

:headbang:
rocknation

[SoCalDem]

129. Down Syndrome infants are usually LOW birthweight

http://www.whonamedit.com/synd.cfm/322.html

a MONTH early would probably be well below 6lb-something..

Trig was probably born at home in Wasilla, delivered by Dr. Gal-Pal..in March... It's quite cold there, so keeping him under wraps would be fairly easy..

If Bristol is like MANY teens, she probably fudged the numbers & Mom wasn't sure when to announce "her" pregnancy until she was confident of the birth weight issue..

If the baby was small and safely tucked away in Wasilla in the middle of an Alaskan winter..remember Bristol's friends were not allowed to visit or even call her....Mrs Moose just waited until that baby was 6-something, and then faked "her birth"..

Sorting this all out would be as simple as providing a complete record of Mrs Moose's prenatal checkups & the labs..

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

130. She just looks like she packed on a few pounds that made her look fat. What a fraud.

[Hepburn]

131. Assuming that Trig is NOT Palin's child, IMO the best way to go about verifying this is...

...going after Palin on the issue of possible insurance fraud.

She is the governor of Alaska, right? And she is entitled, I would assume, to health insurance benefits for herself and her immediate family, right? So, if there is no birth certificate which verifies the parentage of Trig with Sarah being the mother and Sarah added him as her child to have him covered with health insurance....well, you can see where this would go, right?

So a citizen of the State of Alaska would have the right to make an inquiry as to the valid and legitimate use of public funds to pay the benefits of of a state employee ~~ in this case the medical insurance for the alleged youngest child of the governor of the state.

Just a thought ~~ not sure if it would fly or not, but it might be interesting!

[Phredicles]

135. This is all junk. But it's junk I can't get enough of.

:popcorn:

[Neshanic]

136. Junk? This is Caviar! A slattern Gov and her trailer trash family? Jesus this is great.