Talkingpointsmemo: HRC as SOS

[flpoljunkie]

HRC as SOS

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/244634.php

11.16.08 -- 9:19PM
By Josh Marshall

I can't be the only one who's thought of this.

In late December of last year The New York Times wrote a lengthy article about the various donors to the Clinton Foundation, and the conflicts of interest (real or apparent) they might create for Sen. Clinton should she become president. At the time Bill Clinton said that if Hillary were elected he would disclose the identities and contribution totals of all the Foundation's contributors going forward, though not the ones that predated her presidency.

The Foundation's contributors include not only a number of heads of state but also a lot of high-flying businessmen who play the game so high in the stratosphere that what we normally consider foreign policy questions routinely play into their business interests.

Now, Secretary of State is not president. But in the foreign policy realm, it is as close as you get. So how does this all play out if she's nominated to serve as Secretary of State? Does the same going-forward disclosure policy apply?

Late Update: I'm not sure when today this article went up. But it turns out the Times has a piece up on their site about precisely this question.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/us/politics/17memo.html?hp


Latter Update: TPM Reader PD reminds us of this follow-up to the December 2007 Times article. Also by Becker and Van Natta.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/us/politics/31donor.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

[Thrill]

1. Sounds like Bill is going to cost her Again.

ouch

[NashVegas]

2. More Like Bill's Enemies

And / or Hillary's. They sure are working overtime with these leaks.

[flpoljunkie]

3. Leaks?

Hardly.

[NashVegas]

9. Leaks

"Democrats close to the situation said Sunday."

"Many Democrats close to both camps said Sunday that it seemed likely that Mr. Obama would ask her to take the job, assuming they could work something out regarding Mr. Clinton’s role."

"a Democrat close to both camps said. "

"said a senior adviser to Mr. Obama."

"More than a dozen advisers to both sides said Sunday"

One sign that many said pointed to Mrs. Clinton’s possible selection was the news that Gregory B. Craig would be White House counsel instead of national security adviser or deputy secretary of state, as some had expected. A law school friend of the Clintons who represented Mr. Clinton during impeachment, Mr. Craig backed Mr. Obama from the start of the campaign and was a scathing critic of Mrs. Clinton’s claims to foreign policy experience. Although some advisers saw no connection, others said putting him in a foreign policy job would be untenable if Mrs. Clinton were secretary of state.

Known Clinton friend speaking w/out anonymity:

"“No one has called to say, ‘Don’t get too far on this,’ ” said James Carville, a longtime Clinton friend and adviser. “A silent phone’s sometimes as much of an indication as a ringing phone.”"

Now it's back to anons, who are not giving any goods, just speculating:

"A former adviser to Mrs. Clinton who spoke on condition of anonymity said, “If it’s a trial balloon, it certainly seems to be floating.” Another said, “I can’t believe they would have her schlep out there with all this publicity unless they were real about it.”"

All in all, one person was willing to go on the record, and that person had no inside info. Two more, both anon, but identifiable as Clinton people, again. No claim to inside, direct info.

Everything else is leak.

[flpoljunkie]

10. The articles in the New York Times re Bill are not leaks. Supposition on her being selected are.

[Metric System]

17. Oh, you're one of the ones who think she had her name leaked but also think she can't survive the

vetting process. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I'm sure she'd want the embarrassment of having her name associated with the SOS position only to be rejected in the vetting stage.

[flpoljunkie]

27. Wrong again, but I do question Bill's baggage, i.e., questional business dealings.

Did you read the NYT's articles?

[Metric System]

29. Well let the baggage be ruffled through. There's a process and I'm sure the Obama camp knows what

to do.

[NashVegas]

18. Have a Great Day

:hi:

[KittyWampus]

4. cost her what? There is ZERO EVIDENCE she was asked to be Secretary of State

from the Obama campaign.

[Metric System]

5. Already posted by a fellow hater. I'm glad some of you are so interested in this story. Most of us

Hillary supporters are fine with whatever choice Obama makes.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Metric System]

11. Your comment confused me. I googled "you people" and I see that you're trying to twist my innocent

comment into something racist. By "you people" I meant the regular Hillary-haters on DU so I don't appreciate your attempt at race-baiting. I edited my comment so that my point remains without being clouded by your smear.

[flpoljunkie]

12. Did you read either of the NYT's articles?

Apparently not.

[Metric System]

14. You means the ones posted here multiple times? Yes, I read them. So?

[ProSense]

20. Did you really believe a story about Bill being vetted wouldn't generate a lot of interest?

Did you really believe it would be different from all the other stories that trigger extensive discussion?

Did you really?

Maybe you should ignore these posts and save everyone your "hater" accusations.

[Metric System]

21. Did you really think Bill wouldn't be vetted too? Now isn't there another thread you need to go

start on the topic of Hillary as possible SOS?

[Cosmic Charlie]

43. yet, I bet you throw a fit when she isn't picked.

[Skwmom]

6. And the Republicans will be reminding us of these facts, and many others about the Clintons

over and over again if the Clintons become the face of our foreign policy.

Why can't they just go away.

[Metric System]

8. Oh yes why don't they go away to appease the Republicans! Get over it, lady.

[still_one]

15. Don't let the detractors get you down. Hillary would make a great Secretary of State

[Metric System]

19. The thing is, I don't even care if she is SOS. I'm just tired of these endless threads looking to

attack her. I don't see a bunch of threads attacking Kerry and Richardson over possibly becoming SOS. I think some people are trying to rehash the primaries through this story.

[happychatter]

23. not too tired to type ten thousand words on the subject

and post thirty seven times in EVERY thread even REMOTELY related

wipe that keyboard off when you're done, eh?

:rofl:

[Metric System]

24. And you are?

[tonycinla]

31. bill and hillary

I am not a Bill or Hillary hater.Obama supposedly does not like drama.I am not saying that is good or not,but if he wants a drama free administration or drama light ,if you will, I think he should stay away from the Clinton's .The heat and anguish the Clinton's,especially Hillary,generate on this web site alone are my proof of their drama producing abilities.Obama has a very full plate and does not need these distractions right out of the box.

[Metric System]

33. Sounds like a circular argument to me.

[flpoljunkie]

41. Exactly!

[Cosmic Charlie]

45. sure you don't, you just found it necessary to post in nearly every thread about this

"some people are trying to rehash the primaries"

exactly, the people who lost.

[Skwmom]

30. Appease the Republicans? You mean like the Clintons obviously seem to have

appeased/joined the Neocons?

Plus, A LOT more than just Republicans don't care for the Clintons. That's why so many said no to Bill's Third Term.

[paulk]

38. only "obvious" to someone who's POV is so rooted in hatred

as to be completely irrational...

[Skwmom]

32. The Republicans can even use the words of LIFELONG Democrats.

Wow. Won't this really reflect well on the Obama Administration, who promised we would turn the page.

ZEIFMAN: Well, let me put it this way. I terminated her, along with some other staff members who were -- we no longer needed, and advised her that I would not -- could not recommend her for any further positions.

BOORTZ: Why not?

ZEIFMAN: Because of her unethical conduct.

BOORTZ: Now, to get this on the record, you are now, were then, and you are a lifelong Democrat, are you not?

ZEIFMAN: Yes, very much so.

BOORTZ: How do you feel about her candidacy for president of the United States right now?

ZEIFMAN: Well, I think that for any intellectually honest Democrat, her -- it would be a moral imperative to vote against her.

BOORTZ: Because of her lack of ethics when she was working for you?

ZEIFMAN: Well, no. Frankly, I had hoped when she eventually became first lady, I had hoped that we had taught her a lesson. And I had voted for Bill Clinton, knowing that he was advocating a two-for-one presidency. But after two -- excuse me --

BOORTZ: That happens to me all the time, too. And I'm on the radio, so --

ZEIFMAN: There I go again.

BOORTZ: Yeah.

ZEIFMAN: And I don't even smoke. Now, what happened was that I voted for Bill Clinton out of loyalty to the Democratic Party. And -- but within a short time, I became very disenchanted with the Clinton administration because of its corruption and deceit.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200804040011

[Metric System]

34. Um, you linked to a Media Matters article that debunks that smear job. Zeifman posted his anti-

Hillary crap on the Accuracy in Media website. AIM is a right-wing site which has plenty of nasty crap to say about Obama too. It amazes me that you would choose to believe such right-wing propaganda. Zeifman also smears the Kennedys too. Here's an excerpt from a Washington Post article back in 1996 calling him into question:

"Zeifman's theory goes something like this: John Doar, Hillary Rodham, Bernard Nussbaum and other Kennedy loyalists investigating Nixon obstruct his impeachment "to cover up malfeasance in high office throughout the Cold War." The scheming starlets are abetted by Peter Rodino, a weak, corrupt chairman of the House Judiciary Committee who is afraid that Nixon might expose his own Mafia ties. Rounding out the list of conspirators is Burke Marshall, Robert Kennedy's assistant attorney general, who orchestrates the bogus investigation in the hopes of keeping Nixon in office, which will, he believes, help Ted Kennedy win the White House. Using a variety of dubious legal strategies -- still with me? -- Doar and his co-conspirators do everything they can to avoid putting the president on trial, a strategy, they hope, that will prevent Nixon's lawyers from revealing the "crimes of Camelot."

The lack of evidence makes this theory hard to swallow. Zeifman's most reliable source -- his diary -- contains few revelations and seems little more than a chronicle of his suspicions and speculations."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/reviews/matthewdallek.htm

"THE CRIMES OF CAMELOT." Congratulations for believing and repeating right-wing propaganda.

[Cosmic Charlie]

44. not to appease Repukes, but all those of us who voted for real change

[Erin Elizabeth]

37. Seconded.

I'd like them to go away so we can quit dealing with their drama.

[Ichingcarpenter]

13. Failure to re-inspect bridges can result in failure

Even if they were inspected 10 years ago, corrosion of steel occurs with age
and powerful unseen undercurrents can undermine the pilings and cause
catastrophic bridge failure later on.

The bridge may have been sound years ago but it would be unwise not to inspect it
before we drove this new administration over it.

[Barack_America]

16. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7867976

Discussion from Friday.

[happychatter]

22. it just kind of hit me.... leaked last week and we already have Henry Kissinger's opinion? WTF?

Who.the.fuck

asked Henry GD Kissinger his opinon?

two minutes after a leak? he has a prepared little spiel about it.

just, what.the.fuck?

[Metric System]

26. It's a conspiracy! In this day and age of instant feedback, I agree it's a very odd turn of events.

"Who.the.fuck asked Henry GD Kissinger his opinon?"

OMG! I know, right? It's very perplexing. What kind of person would ask for the opinion of a former SOS and then file a story?

[Arkansas Granny]

25. It seems to me that Obama is capable of making his choice for SOS and

any other position on his cabinet and staff without being intimidated by the press or former political opponents and forced to accept someone not of his choosing. If he chooses to offer the position of SOS to Hillary, I will assume it's because he believes she will be the best person for the position and that she will be an asset to his administration. If he chooses another person, I will assume that he made that decision for the same reasons. I don't plan on being disappointed in either case.

[flpoljunkie]

28. Let us hope so, Arkansas Granny. Let us hope so.

[Metric System]

35. Agreed.

[ProSense]

36. "being intimidated by the press or former political opponents and forced to accept someone"

Precisely what is happening.

[paulk]

39. LOL!

:crazy:

there's always an excuse, isn't there?

[ProSense]

40. Actually, not crazy at all

Rejecting her after letting the possibility become so public would risk a new rupture within a party that spent much of the year divided between Mr. Obama and the Clintons.

link

"I would be shocked if Obama did not offer Hillary something after putting this possibility out there in the public realm," said a senior staff member for Mrs Clinton. "It would be like a deliberate kick in the teeth. I can't see what he would gain from doing that."

link

At the very least, this is being pushed by the media.

[Metric System]

42. ProSense, what you seem to fail to realize is that there is no great desire among Hillary supporters

for her to be SOS. Many supporters would prefer her to remain in the Senate. Ultimately, many of us feel it's up to Obama who he wants to pick and it's up to Hillary whether she wants to accept, IF he decides she's right for the job. Seriously, before this SOS leak came out, did you see any of us Hillary supporters on DU posting threads demanding that she be appointed SOS or given some cabinet position? NO! There was more support for Hillary to be named VP among us supporters but that ship has sailed and obviously the overwhelming majority of us voted for Obama/Biden regardless. I'm still confused about why you think anyone can FORCE Obama to pick Hillary as SOS. OK, let's just say she did have the story leaked (as you suggest) to put pressure on Obama. My question to you is, can't the Obama camp hit back and "expose" her intentions? Wouldn't she end up looking the worst out of such a situation?

[Arkansas Granny]

46. I believe you've found the root of the problem - the media. Arguing and infighting

is good for the media because it gives them something to cover. We've seen conflicts manufactured before from the flimsiest excuses so it should come as no surprise that they are making a big deal of this. It's good for their ratings.