Don't read if you can't handle it

[lwcon]

Why this Obama skeptic is voting for Obama:

http://www.correntewire.com/when_all_is_said_and_done

I'm not a fan, not even close. But I've found a way to vote (D) this morning.

[scheming daemons]

1. IBTL

You scumbag, PUMA.

[ROh70]

2. IBTL? What does that mean?

[scheming daemons]

3. "In before the lockout"

[lwcon]

17. As FDR said

"I welcome your hate." But I'd welcome even more a shared agenda.

I had to part ways with the PUMAs when many of them pledged allegiance to McCain. As unhappy as I've been with Obama's candidacy, I could never see how that translated into positive things to say about Mr. Military Commissions Act. He's always been a scumbag, no matter how many so-called liberals praised him as a "maverick" over the years.

If you are a progressive, as I've been my whole life, I hope you'll join me in pushing Obama to enact a liberal agenda. We don't have to start with the same optimism about the 44th president. We just have to want what's healthy for America: Universal Healthcare, better energy/environmental policy, the end of U.S imperialism, economic justice, etc.

Ideally, in about 24 hours, DU will become a launching board for progressive initiatives, and not a place for just waiting for good things to happen because our party leaders got some new jobs.

The 110th Congress has been a huge disappointment. For the 111th to do better, we need to hold some feet to the fire, doncha think?

[XOKCowboy]

26. Nice CYA post but with friends like you...

who needs enemies? Get over HRC. You can vote for her in 2016 and feel good then.

[lwcon]

30. Here's the voice and face of "get over it"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjaB3cxH-XE

Not very pretty, is it?

Donkeys are better than Republicans because we have reallly good memories. We remember Vietnam, for example.

My objections to Obama began when he was near the front of my likely preferences and HRC was the very last. We learned a lot about both candidates over this past couple of years. We all formed different opinions from that process. They don't necessarily change as winners and losers are tallied up.

The important thing now is that there's major progressive work to be done.

Tell me, do you think Obama needs a push from progressives, or is the job of the Democratic base over for the next couple of years?

[TTUBatfan2008]

28. Wait, let me get this straight...

You were a Clinton supporter and you're complaining about Obama not being liberal enough? The Clintons are the king and queen of political triangulation. They are brilliant at it. Obama's pretty good at it too. But don't make the mistake of thinking one is any different from the other. It's always strange to hear someone complain about a candidate when the person they supported was the same damn thing.

[lwcon]

31. Certainly, they're both centrists

My read, while watching the campaign, was that Hillary was cutting left, and Obama was cutting right. Their votes on FISA bear that out, as did her early advocacy for HOLC, which Obama is finally seeing the light on. I also hope he'll catch up to HRC on Universal Healthcare.

Anyway, the point isn't whether Hillary or Obama is better, it's what can we do to ensure that the centrist we've got will govern in the country's best interests, and that's pushing a progressive agenda, yes?

[TTUBatfan2008]

34. Obama was forced to move to the right...

when Clinton's campaign decided to pull out the ugly "he's the most liberal senator" tactic. What did you think of that, huh? I thought it was eerily similar to what George W. Bush did to John Kerry, and what McCain has done to Obama as well. As I said, don't make the mistake of thinking Hillary's any different from Obama. If anything, she's worse. Attacking a fellow Democrat for being "too liberal." That's when you know the party is fucked and owned by the corporations. When that line of attack is seen as effective in a primary campaign, you might as well give up on the party altogether and vote 3rd party.

[lwcon]

44. Could you please provide a link for that?

When did Hillary's campaign say that Obama was the most liberal senator and/or too liberal?

[Whisp]

40. oh yeah, i remember that cat shit smell about that name. nt

[blitzen]

4. well, that was horseshit, but thanks for the vote...on second thought, go ahead

and vote for McCain.

[AkFemDem]

24. Uh NO, don't. We need to put our collective need aheadof our personal humility- LIKE this brave PUMA

Who cares if she used less than flattering terms to describe Obama or the current state of the party- the point is she HASN'T given up on either completely or she wouldn't be casting that vote. She is EXACTLY who we need to make amends with to build a new stronger, better democratic party- and not only do I welcome her vote for Obama, I humbly ask every other lurking PUMA for theirs.

[TTUBatfan2008]

33. It is hypocritical...

to whine about Obama not being liberal enough and then support Clinton. That is the definition of hypocrisy if I have ever seen it. They are essentially the same candidate from what I can tell on a vast majority of the issues. Whining about one not being liberal enough while supporting the other is laughable. I guess Hillary's "Let's nuke Iran" comment was perfectly acceptable to the OP, eh? Sheesh. The party is controlled by the corporations and probably will be for a long time. Neither Obama nor Clinton would change that, so criticizing one for that while ignoring the other's glaring guilt in this area is, as I said, laughable.

[AkFemDem]

35. Can we not debate/discuss this on Nov 5th??

[lwcon]

38. Agreed

I see no need to re-debate the primaries, certainly not here and not now.

But I also reject the imperative to "get over" them.

"Get over it" is for Republicans, because they don't have better arguments. We learned things about the candidates, their supporters, and ourselves throughout the campaign. Some of those learnings will be indelible, some will fade. But they don't disappear because it's inconvenient to remember them.

That said, Obama's on the ballot and Hillary isn't. I had to make a choice, and I did.

[TTUBatfan2008]

41. Hillary attacked him for being too liberal...

how in the world do you justify then turning around and saying he's not liberal enough while supporting her? I'm saying, based on your principles, you shouldn't have supported EITHER in the first place. They don't match up with your principles in a satisfactory manner. No candidate is perfect, but these two are a long ways from being perfect according to your own beliefs (judging from your blog post).

[lwcon]

45. Both are far from perfect

As I just asked upthread, please provide linky evidence that Hillary called Obama too liberal.

As I understand it, house policy is not to re-fight the primaries. That doesn't mean, however, that Obama is beyond reproach (I believe house policy is clear about that as well).

However, I'd love to see information you can provide to support your claim. It would be educational.

[TTUBatfan2008]

52. There's tons of it...

Here's one example:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=408831...

"While the senator was vague, her campaign pointed out to ABC News examples of Obama's liberal positions. In 2004, Obama said he would vote to abolish mandatory minimum sentences for federal crimes. "Mandatory minimums take too much discretion away from judges," Obama said in an NAACP debate."

Here's another:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/new-hampshire-...

"Hillary's aides point to Obama's extremely progressive record as a community organizer, state senator and candidate for Congress, his alliances with "left-wing" intellectuals in Chicago's Hyde Park community, and his liberal voting record on criminal defendants' rights as subjects for examination."

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/27/is-obama-too-libe... /

The study cited in this blog post is the same one that Lanny Davis, Rendell, and other Clinton supporters kept talking about every night on TV, accusing him of being too liberal for America.

And we have seen the leaked memos from Mark Penn stating that they should paint Obama as un-American. Fortunately Hillary shot his ass down on that idea.

And need I remind you of the "cling to guns and religion" situation? Sure Obama could have said it better, but what he said was the fucking truth and Hillary knows it. Yet she cynically harped on it and began pretending that she's somehow a gun rights activist when in fact she had a history of being a gun control activist. Called him elitist and out of touch. Sounds like the same line Bush used on Kerry. The "elitist" and "liberal" memes go hand-in-hand. The Republicans use the terms interchangeably against Democrats and have for years, even though the Republicans are even bigger elitists in most cases.

Here's another doozie. Did she or did she not attack Obama IN THE DEBATES for having too weak of a stance on foreign policy? If I recall correctly, she went after him for wanting to speak to foreign leaders. HELLO. This is what we've been wanting for the last 8 years, and what happens during the Democratic Primary? One of the two major candidates gets attacked for wanting to use diplomacy. WONDERFUL.

And by the way, I donated the same amount of money to her as I have to Obama ($50) when she gave the Convention speech. She has done a great job for him in speaking out against McCain's disastrous policies. Forgive but never forget the tactics she used, especially when her supporters start whining that Obama wasn't liberal enough. I beg to differ. Kinda hard to be very liberal when the most popular Democratic name in the business is attacking you from the right/center all the time. Don't get me wrong, Obama is a flip-flopping centrist as proven in the General Election, but Hillary going after him for being too liberal in the Democratic Primary was pretty laughable. And it backfired for the most part.

[lwcon]

58. I'll look these over on the other side of sleep

Thanks for providing some source material to check out.

In any case, let's agree (as mandated by the site) not to relitigate the primary. OK?

[TTUBatfan2008]

60. Fine by me...

By the way, I've donated the same amount to her as I have to Obama ($50 to each). She did a great job at the Convention and ever since that time for him on the campaign trail.

[lwcon]

39. If I think of it, I'll get back to you about "Let's nuke Iran"

But not until the polls are closed.

[TTUBatfan2008]

42. What about "He's too liberal"?

McCain's "he's the most liberal senator" is a regurgitated attack taken straight from Hillary's campaign, which was in turn taken from the GWB playbook against Kerry in 2004.

[lwcon]

46. Repeating yourself here

Again, I await evidence that supports this claim.

[TTUBatfan2008]

53. I posted it above...

Go read it.

[lwcon]

43. What a healthy attitude! Thank you!

The other day, here, I asked for last-minute pitches to Obama skeptics, and responses included "Quit being such a fucking crybaby and do the right thing!" That'll win some hearts and minds!

BTW, I'm a "he."

[Not a robought]

5. hang on a sec, just getting comfy

[VenusRising]

11. Move ovah!

Have a

[SwampG8r]

6. ibtl..ibts

[Yes We Did]

7. IBTL

this should be fun.

[JeffR]

8. Wow, how, um... noble.

[EFerrari]

9. It's been a long time since I've read something that ugly

and I was just at Free Republic yesterday.

Ciao.

[Bilyb]

10. minus one

topic

[FlyingSquirrel]

12. I didn't read it, but I'm sure I could've handled it.

[Egnever]

13. LOL

PUMA!

you lost your fucking mind this time around. Glad to see you got a small sliver of it back.

[4lbs]

14. WTF?!?!?!? He failed to uphold the Constitution? How?

That's utter bull fucking shit!!!!!

[lwcon]

20. Four letters: F-I-S-A.

And that's just the Fourth Amendment. Promising to allow faith-based groups to "help set our national agenda" is an assault on the First.

[KathieG]

15. Phew...I made it.

[LooseWilly]

16. Chuckle...

Uhhm, yeah. Criticizing Obama for not being liberal enough... and then holding up HRC as the liberal we could have had.

"Scratch, scratch, scratch... dirty fingernails."
-the Residents.

Extreme psychedelic madness quotes are the only viable response.

[regnaD kciN]

18. VastLeft.com, eh...?

Hate to break it to you, but you're only Half-Vast.

[AkFemDem]

19. Well I am glad for your vote, I don't really understand your vitriol fully but ....

I do know what it is like to hold ones nose and cast that ballot (that was me in 04)

I hope Obama exceeds your expectations and I hope our party grows together to be a better, more transparent, less sexist organization where excellent women like Hillary Clinton are treated fairly and respectfully.

I can hear your disappointment, anger, and frustration- and I hope I don't sound trite because I really do WANT to be a part of the same organization as our PUMA sisters. I know you may never be able to completely approve of President Obama, but sincerely- I hope he exceeds your expectations, for all of our sake!

[lwcon]

21. I appreciate the sentiment!

No one will be happier than I if he over-delivers. The crow would taste very sweet!

[BlooInBloo]

22. (shrug) Sounds typical of what we heard from some a few months back to me.

[lwcon]

50. I can't say that Obama's moves since the primaries ended...

... made my decision any easier: FISA, expanded Faith-Based Initiatives, expanded death penalty, championing Hank Paulson's giveaway.

So, no, it's not much different than it was a few months back. Only now it's election day, and I've found a way to swallow my considerable reservations. I hope I'm not going to have blood on my hands, if Obama drags us further into Afghanistan, Pakistan, and so on, and expands the military as he's promised/threatened.

[Frank Booth]

23. You're doing this just to be annoying right?

[cliffordu]

25. IBTL!!!

and the tombstone, I hope....

[book_worm]

27. Who cares? vote whatever way you want.

[Life Long Dem]

29. LOL!

I vote for Obama's trashed Democratic Party!

[stolivodka]

32. Well, um, thanks...?

A vote is a vote, but you should really look into Obama's platform a bit more closely. I'm sure you'd find a few surprises.

PS: I'm sorry that your person lost the primary.

[lwcon]

56. Primary's over

But Obama is still Obama, and I hope we'll find a way to work together to make him the most progressive Obama he can be.

I've looked at his platform a lot. And even more so at his votes in the last year. That's why I'm a skeptic. Sometimes skeptics are wrong. I hope this is one of those times.

[Lil Missy]

36. There's a couple minutes of my life I'll never get back.

That was stupid.

[Crunchy Frog]

37. Well, I'm glad you found a way, no matter how much agony it involved.

[lwcon]

47. Thank you. n/t

[curious one]

48. I am not a skeptic and voted for a great president. Now we need to come

together and move this country forward and recover from 8 years of destruction.

[lwcon]

51. Sounds good.

What have you got in mind?

[Lucian]

49. -1

[fujiyama]

54. Good to know

We need all the votes we can get tomorrow.

Thanks for your vote.

[lwcon]

59. I appreciate that n/t

[cottonseed]

55. You're looking for attention the night before the election?

I don't think anyone cares what you've got posted here. There's an election tomorrow that millions of people have been working their asses off for. Your post isn't worth a warm bucket of spit compared with that.

[puerco-bellies]

57. Why are you here?

WTF?

[lwcon]

62. Lifelong Democrat

Struggling with a decision, having many reservations about the nominee, wanting to share that struggle and decision with fellow Democrats -- a decision that's congruent with the express goal of this site. Is there something wrong with that?

[grantcart]

61. wow come see this guy he's a real progressive 'wobblies of the world become narcissistic'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IWW

[LowerManhattanite]

63. How many times have you supposedly “quit” DU, only to crawl back...

...with some silly, pathological bullshit like this, this election season?

Jesus...shit or get off the pot. We know. You hate Obama. Have from jump. Great. Now that you've supposedly voted for him, you can go with your “Plan B” (No need to say what “Plan A” was, because it's been clear what that was) and continue your hateful sniping.

Weak tea, indeed. And totally expected. I await your brethren's same posts shortly.

Or fucking not.

[rasputin1952]

64. Locking...

This is the kind of thing that defines flamebait. Perhaps a month ago this might have been acceptable, but it's election day, and that puts a thread like this in a different light.

GET OUT AND VOTE, if you did not take advantage of early voting.