Raise Your Hand If You Remember When DU Considered Banning the Use of "Bitch" In the Rules

[NashVegas]

What side were you on then, and do you regret it?

I was on the "against" side. I thought the overwhelming majority of DUers weren't immature in their use of it.

I don't think that's the case anymore.

[Occam Bandage]

1. Against. Still against.

Banning words, books, movies, and music does absolutely nothing to change people's beliefs and attitudes.

[Uzybone]

2. Banning words is a stupid idea

I'm against. If we ban bitch, then ban bastard, prick, dick, fuck etc... all these words offend someone/everyone.

[Whisp]

14. prick does not = b, do we have to give you lessons all over again?

b is closer to the n word than anything.

you okay with the n word being spread around here?

you okay with shitting where you eat? I'm not.

[NashVegas]

22. Does Not Equal, But Equally Insulting

It's a gender based attack with a whole lot of hostility behind it. When using, I prefer "dick" and pretty much contain it to grand-standers, if ya know what I mean.

[Uzybone]

25. Dick and prick, no difference

its ok to slur a man with a gender based attack but not a woman?

Personally I'd rather not use slurs to describe anyone. Even Bush. But banning words is anti-democratic.

[NashVegas]

36. Part of the Point of "Bitch" As An Insult

Is reminding us that a woman's place is supposed to be on the bottom. Calling someone a dick or a prick is something we usually do to a guy who's overly asserting his place as a top. I'm not saying that's okay, just pointing out the subtle difference in usage. Tangent, really, but relatable to the post up above because of the 'n' word comparison.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. You just argued for their equivalence.

[Whisp]

35. beg to differ

white men, generally, have never had to suffer under injustices like women and blacks have. you can't change the history of that.

[NashVegas]

44. Yeah, I Know

See my post above. But 'dick' and 'prick' are intended as insults. Usually.

[Zuiderelle]

108. It's only insulting if you have an adjective attached like "tiny" or "shriveled" then it's good.

[Uzybone]

23. Yes I'm ok with the "n" word being used (it's just a word)

it reflects more on the user than the person he/she is trying to insult. Banning words is stupid, it does not change the mind of the person who wants to use the word.

B does not = the n word either.

If a woman acts like a bitch whats wrong with calling her one? If a man acts like a prick why not call him one?

[cliffordu]

31. By what metric have YOU decided that

"THE b is closer to the n word than anything"

WTF are you actually talking about?????

[Whisp]

43. I have decided that for ME and am not cramming anything down your throat.

it is MY opinion, you are free to have yours.

the prick/dick word in all my years has never had that hateful, spittle spew to it. yes, maybe individually but never in a wider social sense that is acceptable to call women degrading names. in movies, commercials, everywhere we look around us women are being called vial bitches in some form or other. the succubus' that lure poor helpless men in and control their bodily functions. the ones to be made perfection in body with bigger boobs and slimmer asses, then to be scorned and spat on for being a brainless bimbo

have you been living in a cave or something?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. Well then don't use the word "bitch."

If you think Harry Potter novels cause witchcraft, don't read them.

Leave normal people out of it.

[cliffordu]

60. Yep. What you said.

[Whisp]

95. I don't use the word, but some asshole might use it against my daughter.

or sister or another woman I love, and I'm not okay with that.

you seem to be okay with that,
well, this mama bear is not and if I ever catch you calling my girl names based on her gender, I'd rip your tongue out.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

99. I'll call your daughter whatever she deserves.

Deal with it.

[Whisp]

105. o, I will, big man, I will.

betcha you don't talk so smart in front of real people.

betcha ass you don't go calling women names in front of Real People.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

115. Uh huh.

And I bet you sit there and take it whenever real people do call you names.

[Whisp]

123. and I bet you molest cockroaches.

didnt realize before what a total a you are BA.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. "bitch" isn't anything like the word "nigger."

It's much closer to "prick."

Or "jerk."

At least to 99% of the civilized world.

[cliffordu]

34. but not here in the sensitive persons uber alles section of the planet.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. I've seen people here get upset at the clothes girls wear on the Disney Channel.

One mom got upset at "The Naked Brothers Band" on Nickelodean.

Another person was upset over the word "douchebag."

And then there was the person who got upset over cartoon penguins.

All the same stupid fuckers, IMO.

[LisaM]

Ummmm.

I think a lot of people are offended by the word "douchebag" (if that's what you meant to say).

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

51. Only humorless prudes.

Fuck 'em.

[cliffordu]

55. and the douchenozzles they rode in on.....

[LisaM]

68. I'm not a humorless prude

but thanks for judging me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

82. If you're going to dish it out, you're going to have to take it.

If you go around saying people who use the word "douchebag" or "bitch" or whatever it is these days are misogynists, be prepared for people to call you on your bullshit.

[LisaM]

84. You know...

wherever I post, I can count on you showing up to insult me. I suppose I'd miss you if you were gone.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

86. I do? I don't even remember who you are.

You're infinitely forgettable.

[cliffordu]

53. Me???? I've been a douchebag for years!!!

[QueenOfCalifornia]

42. I am cracking up

at you...

Bwaaaa haaaaaa!

People here get so fucking touchy. If they stop and look around they will see they are still in their house or office with their warm, little computer and that they can easily navigate away from the bad, bad words.

It kills me. WTF

[Whisp]

45. pricks don't get lynched or raped.

what civilized world are you talking about.

america, the capital of violence?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. LOL

[cliffordu]

58. You might want to do a little study of same sex rape.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

61. And lynching.

[Whisp]

73. I should have added as a general rule.

didn't think some would be so dumbass about it, but surprise surprise -

here come the stats to show white men have been lynched as often as blacks, and men that have been raped as often as women. yeh, that's the ticket.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

As a general rule?

Lemme know when Ashley Todd gets lynched and raped.

Considering this is just the sort of thing that got black men lynched, your comments are deeply ironic.

[Whisp]

93. as a general rule men are raped more often than women.

there, happy now.

good gawd.

Oscar Wilde was right. America went from barbarism to decadence without any civilisation in between.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

97. I thought it was the other way around.

But then again, I'm not keeping score like it's some sort of sick football match.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

90. Not too well

informed. Are you?

Men do not get lynched? Raped?

Sure they don't... On your planet.

[DevonRex]

56. I agree. Bitch and bastard are descriptive of behavior. The N-word is not.

[cliffordu]

64. You are exactly right:

And to actually try to equate these terms is disgusting.

[DevonRex]

67. Yes it is. Hopefully most folks here see that very clearly. If not, we

have some work to do.

[Whisp]

75. bitch is a descriptive of a woman, not of behavior.

and calling a man a bitch is the lowest of the low -
a man degraded to the level of a woman! tsk tsk.

[DevonRex]

79. Tsk tsk to you. I call men who behave badly bastards.

[Whisp]

87. I wasn't talking about you, personally. sorry you took it that way.

what you call badly behave people is not the point.

the point is society as a whole regards 'bitches' in a much more sinister way that they do 'bastards'. There is no equality, like equal pay for equal work, even in this.

I'm really surprised that so many people here still don't get it.

[gauguin57]

76. I use dick, prick and bastard for men, and bitch for women who deserve it.

And I'm a woman and a feminist. Some women are bitches and some men are bastards. "Bitch" doesn't mean "female dog" and "bastard" doesn't mean "illegitimate child" in that context.

Nasty Sarah Palin is a bitch, and nasty John McCain is a prick, a dick and a bastard. So there.

[DevonRex]

85. That is exactly right. Thank you. nt

[BoneDaddy]

114. By whose freaking logic do you come up with this shit?

Is the wordoffesivemeter still on?

WAHHHHHHHHH

[woofless]

120. You are making arbitrary distinctions.

That is just the point. Who gets to make these distinctions, using what criteria? Ban one word and you might as well ban all speech.

Woof AKA Kathy's Bitch

[alwysdrunk]

101. Right. Banning ANY words is a bad idea

Some people here are so annoying. Just waiting, watching and waiting and then LUNGING at the slightest opportunity to take offense to something.

[DefenseLawyer]

3. I will always be against banning words.

I would caution folks not to use certain words because of the pain they can inflict, but if they choose to use them that is their prerogative, and they will face whatever consequences flow from that choice.

[NashVegas]

5. Let Me Put It This Way

I don't regret the opinion I voiced at the time. But if it came up again, I would offer a different opinion.

[cliffordu]

65. Exactly.

[DevonRex]

4. Wasn't here. AGAINST now and always. Also against insulting

DUers by calling them immature.

[wildflower]

6. I think

I think that either slurs are banned or they aren't, so if others are banned, that one should be banned. These words can be painful triggers.

[Hepburn]

7. Don't recall this....

...maybe I was not around when this was going on.

However, I am totally against banning the use of words. PERIOD.

[ecstatic]

8. I do, and now I think the whole thing is stupid.

Sometimes only one word fits.

[HereSince1628]

9. I can remember when an OP had to have 5 sentences.

And swearing in any form wasn't allowed in the subject line of an OP.

You guys have no idea how expansion of the DU community has degraded things.

And someone will call these comments elitist. You Betch!

[ecstatic]

16. lol! I don't remember the 5 sentences rule, but I do vaguely

remember the no swearing in the title rule. I still abide by that (but I try to get my point across without cursing for the most part anyway).

[NashVegas]

19. I Don't Remember That

Was that maybe in the Gungeon or another flame-bait forum?

[HereSince1628]

40. Nope it was a GD rule. About the time when SHE WHOSE NAME MUST NOT BE SPOKEN

was pushing her black-box enterprise.

[NashVegas]

47. Heheheheh

Understood.

[Melinda]

21. Ummm, I don't remember that either... you sure you haven't mixed up your websites?

[HereSince1628]

30. Nope, I've just been here a while. You know this is DU Version 2, right?

Things were different back then...good ol version 1.

[Melinda]

66. Sorry, but we just don't recall things the same way. That's all.

[Melinda]

88. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[HereSince1628]

91. Haha! Memory lane. Gotta be careful around here cuz the nets capture all!

[Melinda]

102. :>)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. The whole concept is as innane as it ever was.

It's even funnier when the same pearl clutchers complain about its use in public.

As if the stupidest of DU sensibilities should apply to real life situations.

[pecwae]

11. You're right.

It's being used gratuitously in the most juvenile manner. Some just get a charge out of being able to type as offensively as possible and to see if if can 'slip' past.

[Staph]

12. I don't like the idea of banning anything.

However, that does not change my opinion of those who use words like that.

[MadBadger]

13. To tell you the truth, the only place I dont use the word is here. Never use as sexist attack

Just like calling a guy a Dick in my opinion... i say that too.

[goodgd_yall]

15. It's overused

I don't know if I could favor banning it because I realize it's like the evolution of the use of "f*ck"; that is a word that used to be taboo in public and now it peppers regular conversations. (And I'm one of its pioneers into acceptability-heheh.)It's more accepted now. At the same time, being a 54-year-old woman who grew up in times when no one talked about wife-abuse, I associate it with misogyny and pre-feminism, so I personally despise the way it is often used on this board.

[Whisp]

24. what I don't like is the hypocrisy - can you imagine calling Hillary that word

and others like it, here? and having most everyone okay with that?

holy moley.
two faced wonders here.

either it's okay or not okay.
for every woman.

I say it's not okay.

[emilyg]

46. It's NOT ok.

[NashVegas]

54. Plenty Did

IIRC. I know "lying whore" was used several times, and am pretty sure "bitch" came up plenty. You'd have to do an advanced search.

[Whisp]

80. yes, they were used, but not near as often as now.

and the poster usually got a pretty good pile on from everyone for doing that, at least that's what I recall.

There is no way no how that Hillary was called these sexist names here as often and as visciously as Palin is now.
and that is a shame because she has so much to be critical of besides the kind of underwear she wears and the equipment in them.

that's so sad and sorry to target zoom onto that. ick.

[goodgd_yall]

98. They certainly did.

In fact Hillary came to mind immediately when I read the OP. I totally forgot about Palin. I'd like to think it be allowed but used judiciously, but it never is, so it may be best to forbid its use on DU. It's like business and Libertarians---Libertarians like to think business owners will regulate themselves, but in reality they don't, so government needs to put in place regulations.

[Melinda]

17. Egads, so much water under the bridge. Still here, still a bitch at times too.

I'm with the one up ^^^... suppression is unamerican.

[TornadoTN]

18. Always against the banning of words

Considering our language is wide, varied, and colorful, it's not surprising that some words can have different meanings and usage in the common vernacular.

[Submariner]

20. Just don;t use the word "Cracker", at least to explain Palin

I got bitch-slapped by a mod for using it a couple of weeks ago.

I couldn't help myself. It felt good, and appropriate, when I vented about Sarah's racism.

[NashVegas]

26. Really?

Redneck, yes, but she's not really worthy of being called a cracker.

[Submariner]

69. I looked up cracker in the dictionary afterwards

and saw that I may be offending "poor white people" (see below), which I did not intend, so I didn't argue with the mod. I just re-posted and changed "cracker" to "slimy racist bitch" and that was okay.

Cracker - 7 dictionary results
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Main Entry: cracker
Part of Speech: n
Definition: See Christmas cracker


Webster's New Millennium™ Dictionary of English, Preview Edition (v 0.9.7) - Cite This Source
Copyright © 2003-2008 Lexico Publishing Group, LLC
CITE THIS SOURCE|PRINT
Sponsored Links Delicious Party Crackers
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Amazon.com
All Natural Crackers
Barbara's Bakery Organic Crackers Low Prices. Easy Shipping.
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crack⋅er   /ˈkrækər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. a thin, crisp biscuit.
2. a firecracker.
3. Also called cracker bonbon. a small paper roll used as a party favor, that usually contains candy, trinkets, etc., and that pops when pulled sharply at one or both ends.
4. (initial capital letter) Sometimes Disparaging and Offensive. a native or inhabitant of Georgia (used as a nickname).
5. Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a poor white person living in some rural parts of the southeastern U.S.
6. snapper (def. 5).
7. braggart; boaster.
8. a person or thing that cracks.
9. a chemical reactor used for cracking. Compare catalytic cracking, fractionator.
–adjective 10. crackers, Informal. wild; crazy: They went crackers over the new styles.

[NashVegas]

116. Whoa

I just re-posted and changed "cracker" to "slimy racist bitch" and that was okay.



The McWhiney book makes for interesting reading, FYI, and states it's not strictly a descriptive of the poor.

[renie408]

107. You're kidding? You got smacked for calling Palin a cracker? God, that is stupid. n/t

[cliffordu]

27. delete

[QueenOfCalifornia]

28. Quit yer bitchin'

just sayin...

it's a word. It is used to describe a bitchy bitch. It isn't even all that terrible... but I can be a real bitch.... And I can bitch.

But I have never called anyone on these boards a bitch. This is the first post where I have used it except to maybe say "stop bitching."

What was your point again?

I got carried away.

again.

Oops.

[DevonRex]

48. Yep. I bitch sometimes too. I call McCain a bastard occasionally.

And I've called Palin a bitch once or twice. Really, I can't remember doing it but I've at least thought it and I might have gotten carried away and actually said it.

I call a woman a woman, rather than a person with female parts. I call a man a man, rather than a person with a penis. I call a woman who is married a wife. I call a man who is married a husband. I call a woman who sews a seamstress. I call a man who sews a tailor.

And when speaking of repukes, I sometimes call a badly behaved female republican a bitch. I occasionally call a badly behaved male republican a bastard. Not all the time, but every now and then.

[Throd]

29. I fondly remember the great "Douchebag" debate from a while back.

Good times.

[NashVegas]

63. Somehow

I missed that one.

[Throd]

94. It was priceless

I initially thought it was parody because the outrage seemed so contrived. Sadly, I was mistaken.

[donheld]

32. No I do not remember when bitch was banned.

Maybe my memory is bad, but no use bitching about it.

[izzybeans]

38. I'm not in the business of banning words

and I'm not about to be.

Why not just shorten everything down to doublethink, instead?

That be doubleplusswell, wouldn't?

[CowboyHeyHey]

41. The only censorship I believe in is self-censorship

which I think is truly under-rated. Or, to quote Kurt Vonnegut: "...profanity and obscenity entitle people who don't want unpleasant information to close their ears and eyes to you."

[Boudica the Lyoness]

50. I don't think it should be banned

It's one of the many words I use it to describe women I don't like. Guess I'll never grow up.
In England we say bitch instead of 'girl dog'. Over here in the USA when I say 'my dog is a bitch even though her name is Bobby' people look at me really funny. When I called a breeder and asked her if any of the pups were bitches she stuttered a bit

[supernova]

52. I remember the Bitch Wars

and wow, people thought the primary fights were legendary.


But no, I was never against it. I think when someone is using it inappropriately, it's better to confront them with why it's not a good term than to simply ban them from using it. You don't get the teachable moments IOW.

[LisaM]

59. A lot of people use it in a sexist way

there are plenty of ways to describe Sarah Palin without resorting to sexism. And, since that word was frequently used against Hillary, it's pretty clear that people mean it in a way that's demeaning to women in general.

I don't think it should necessarily be BANNED - however, I think you learn a lot about people when they toss off sexist terminology - and don't even think they're doing it.

[NashVegas]

62. Yeah

I was driven to start this thread, btw, because I saw it in at least two subject lines on this forum today. Seemed a little ... how you say ... excessive?

[iamthebandfanman]

70. hey, make a poll... n/t

[adoraz]

71. would have been stupid

taking things too far.

If someone uses "bitch" in a way where they obviously mean to be offensive and sexist, just report them. Its not like banning a word will stop sexist comments....

[crankychatter]

72. language defamatory of race, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, religion... all the same

it sucks

it's funny, there's another thread RE morning joe, knucklehead saying "bitch slapped..." looking for outrage here... all these folks that have been using this kind of language here... now defending scarborough in a way...

"it depends on context."

context = are we using it on republicans or are THEY using it on US

pot, meet kettle

I wasn't around then and I won't be around later regarding DU rules

so, I abstain

best of luck with that

edited to add: If all the White males here that have ever had "road rage," and used a racial epithet out loud in their car, when someone cut them off, admitted that they used the word "bitch," when the offending party was a woman... they'd get it. It's all the same... it's shaming, abusive, cruel and self indulgent.

[ElboRuum]

74. Against.

I don't like the concept of policing language and the ideas that they represent in general. To me, it is up to the individual to decide what is proper to express and what is proper to keep to oneself, including monitoring how their expression impacts others.

I'm still against.

It is not my job to police the maturity levels of DUer's either. I don't believe that the old "first grade" idea that when one person breaks the rules, that everyone in the class will be punished has any place among adults, regardless of their perceived maturity.

[backscatter712]

77. I don't remember any new announcements on the use of "bitch"

As far as I can tell, these rules still apply.

Special note with regard to the word "bitch": The word "bitch" has been the source of a great deal of controversy on this website, because some of our members consider it to be a bigoted slur against all women, while others do not consider it bigoted. For a while we actively deleted posts which included this word, in an effort to keep the peace. This effort helped to keep discussions on track, but it resulted in many deleted posts that were otherwise perfectly fine as well as many confused people. Futhermore, the moderators themselves were ambivalent about removing the word. For this reason, we no longer automatically remove the word "bitch." However, we strongly urge members to voluntarily avoid using the word if they wish to keep their own discussions from going off-topic, and we reserve the right to take disciplinary action if we think someone is deliberately using the word in an effort to disrupt or cause trouble.

Some mods will interpret this differently from others...

Personally, I think a blanket ban on a word is just dumb. It all depends on the context in which it's used. If it's used by a troll who's obviously using the word to denigrate women and be misogynistic, then it's pizza for him. If it's one of us using the term to refer to a certain female GOP politician who's being unpleasant and malicious (you know, in the same way that prick is used to refer to unpleasant and malicious men,) I consider it to be fair use of the word, and within DU rules.

Bear in mind this quote from the rules as well...

Have a thick skin. Please be aware that just because you consider a post to be offensive does not mean that it is against the rules or bigoted.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

78. No Way Should It Be Banned. It Needs To Be Used For People Like That Lying Bitch Ashley.

[DevonRex]

81. Exactly. Just like bastard is used for people like that lying bastard McCain. nt

[backscatter712]

83. How dare you!!!

I prefer the term "lying prick" myself...

[DevonRex]

89. ROFL!

Ever notice that men don't automatically accuse people of sexism when such terms are used?

[JackBeck]

92. Words should never be banned.

But those that use them irresponsibly should be reprimanded either by the mods or their fellow DU community members, hopefully through a conversation as to why they were ill-advised to post what they did.

If there's one thing I can't stand around here is members running around chastising and shaming other members, while not contributing one inch toward a political discussion.

Some advice: instead of throwing around invective, a bit of explanation can go along way.

[lumberjack_jeff]

96. Still against. The only words I would agree to ban are the "c" word, the "n" word and...

"retard".

The last puts me in a decidedly minority view, but I find it at least as harmful at the other two.

[snake in the grass]

100. While I personally don't use the term because...

...it is very sexist, I see no point in 'banning' it. No words should be banned.

[POAS]

103. I HATE censors whatever their politics! n/t

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlooInBloo]

119. That's nice. You're always free to make your own website....

and show us how much more you value freedom than others do.

[snooper2]

104. Yeah, that would have been a bitch if they went through with it

GOBAMA!

[Blondiegrrl]

106. I don't remember it, but I am 100 percent against it.

I don't see how bitch is any worse than asshole or douche nozzle.

[ElboRuum]

109. I just love the word "douchenozzle".

I'd hate to see it go.

[Myrina]

110. I remember. Never got into the mix, though.

Its a word I use too often (and yes I'm female) so I would probably have to put myself on Ignore, if the word offended me.

[Lucian]

111. Against.

[renie408]

112. I am not a big believer in censorship. I feel the boards will self-regulate on matters such as these

I don't like Big Brother choosing which words are OK and which aren't. I think we can probably figure it out for ourselves. Personally, 'bitch' does not bother me. I never have thought that saying the word 'bitch' had any direct correlation to women making less money, being abused, etc.

I just don't care about the words people use. I am more interested in the views represented by the words. I am coming to terms with this flaw in myself. Or not. But I am learning what you can say here without getting the semantically sensitive's panties in a wad.

[BlooInBloo]

117. I don't really care too much either way - both sides have something going for them...

If anything I probably lean towards the permissive side of that debate, mostly because SOOOOO many women freely use the term.

I suspect most could agree that there do exist both appropriate and inappropriate uses of the term, however.

[musicblind]

118. I still support it n/t

[Beacool]

121. More than B*tch, they should ban the "C" word.

I can't think of a word that is more offensive to call a woman. To me it's as offensive as using the "N" word directed at AAs.

[NashVegas]

122. That IS Banned AFAIK

If you see it you should immediately alert the mods.

[Beacool]

127. OK, I've seen it used before on this board.

I didn't know that it was banned.

[DailyGrind51]

124. If someone compares herself to a "pitbull" with lipstick, I believe it applies!

"Bitch" is the American Kennel Club approved definition for a female dog.

[MaineDem]

125. Posts are still deleted when the word is misused.

The Rules still caution against using it.

[1corona4u]

126. I'm against banning 'bitch' specifically.

I don't think it's all that bad. It's been watered down over the years. You can; bitch about something; something is a bitch(hard to do), etc.

It's a candy ass word if you ask me.

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mvd]

129. Locking

From the rules:

"While specific words are not automatically forbidden, members should avoid using racist, sexist, homophobic, or otherwise bigoted terminology. This includes gender-specific terms such as "cunt," "whore," "slut," "skank," or "pussy," and terms with homophobic derivation, such as "cocksucker," which are often inflammatory and inappropriate. A common exception that is permitted is the use of words like "whore" or "prostitute" in cases where public figures or the media do favors. (For example: "Fox News is whoring for the GOP again" or "Tom DeLay is a prostitute for corporate interests.""

mvd
DU Moderator