Wow! Russia just declared the US a rogue nation....

[Skidmore]

Just reported on MSNBC "First Look" that the Russian president said that America had forfeited its position in the world order because of its actions over the past few years and Russia is calling on Europe to step up and assert itself in our place. I think we should use this. McCain--more of the same.

[MrSlayer]

1. Kind of hard to dispute.

Our standing and moral authority has been thrown out the window. This administration has no business scolding anyone over anything.

[Skidmore]

3. I agree that it is hard to dispute, but

we can turn this around for the nation by getting some elected who understands the work of international relationships....and that isn't McCain.

[AkFemDem]

2. See, I;'m convinced McCains "My fellow prisoners" was a freudian slip about just this topic....

he knows damn well this nation has been held hostage by the Bush organized crime outfit.

[Celebrandil]

4. Listen to Russia!

I think a mistake that many Americans do is to believe that in the rest of the world (at least in the west) Americans are perceived as the Good Guys (almost per definition). I myself (being a European and all) feel very uncomfortable hearing even Obama talking about Russia as if Russia is still some cold-war rouge state. Unlike Soviet Union 20 years ago, Russia is a democracy today, despite it's weaknesses. It seems that in order to win an election in America you have to divide the world into WE and THEM, and in people's minds Russia is still THEM. That is so primitive!

[dbmk]

5. Russia is not a democracy

Another european here - with quite another take on Russia:
Political and journalistic adversaries to the ruling party are killed, harrassed and thrown in jail.
The media is for a large part controlled by the goverment.

Its a banana republic of immense proportions. With dangerous expansionist ideas.

But yes the US (and by that I of course mean the current administration) has failed here, by opening it self up to this kind of logic. There is enough truth in the claim and enough dissatisfaction has been seeded in large parts of the world, due to Bushes actions, that makes it hard for the world community to just laugh off as simple retoric.

Yet another reason to elect a man that can gather up the expectations, cooporation and yes admiration of the world. And McCain for sure is not it.

[Skidmore]

6. Thank you!!!

Well said.

[Celebrandil]

9. Depends on how you define democracy...

That all depends on how you define a democracy. The Russian democracy definitely has its weaknesses, some of them very serious, but the current leadership is still popular indeed. We can dismiss that popularity claiming that most media is controlled by the state, but even without state controlled media Putin would probably have been elected. Personally, I don't like Putin at all. I believe he's dangerous or at least could be. With the grip he has of the country, he could easily turn Russia into a new Third Reich.

However, if you want to prevent that, you cannot play the polarization game. You have to treat Russia as a partner. You have to understand that Russia is a proud nation that lost its pride during the aftermath of the cold war. Putin became popular because he was able to personify that lost pride. We have to understand that the expansion of NATO has scared the Russian people, and scared people do not always act reasonably. Who are the Good Guys? NATO?

[David__77]

38. It's a parliamentary republic.

It's a force for peace and stability at present. That does not mean that under other geopolitical circumstances it wouldn't be an imperialist danger. Right now they're just defending their sovereignty.

[melody]

8. Russia is no democracy and your view of the US is as "twisted"

We are primitive ... they are a democracy. Who is the "bad" guy" now? You think about the US the very way that you accuse Americans of thinking about Russia.

[Celebrandil]

10. Unfortunately, voters are primitive...

Yes! In order to win an election in America you have to divide the world into WE and THEM. Voters are that primitive. The same is true in Russia. The same is true in Iran. Voters are that primitive everywhere, not just in America. It's a pathetic polarization game that leaders have played ever since the Roman empire.

As a leader you should rise above that. Obama has tried to do that a number of times, which I have appreciated, but it has unfortunately not been a very successful strategy.

[melody]

11. "We" don't do this. "We" are 300 million Americans. And the voters at DU are not primitive.

Have you ever even been here? I realize you have a natural tendency, being European, to be partial to Russia but, I'm sorry, you did seem to suggest that only Americans are primitive. I deal with European people all the time. I've seen as many reactionary, knee-jerk European thinkers as I have American ones.

[Celebrandil]

12. European voters are unfortunately just as primitive

Yes, I know I made some outrageous generalizations. European voters are unfortunately just as primitive as American voters are. Scaring people and bashing foreigners is a successful strategy in most elections. In the recent Austrian election the far-right got almost of third of the vote by scaring people. I've been to America about ten times, I believe. My favorite state so far is Oregon.

[melody]

13. When you asserted that Russia was a "democracy" and that we were "primitive"

Was what I disagreed with. I do agree many voters think primitively. The European political theatre has for years used the evil US boogeyman as much as ours have ever used Russia. It's wrong in any case to generalize.

You have good taste in states. lol While I love my California, Oregon and Washington are close seconds.

[Celebrandil]

19. I still believe that Russia is a democracy, but not a strong one.

I still believe that Russia is a democracy, but definitely not a strong one. It's a question of drawing a line. How weak can a democracy be before you stop calling it a democracy? If you compare Russia to Soviet Union, the Russian democracy has taken a big step forward. However, if you compare Russia to America, the Russian democracy still has way to go. I believe we have to give the Russian democracy time to evolve. We have to understand the Russians to help their democracy to evolve in the right direction. Bashing won't help.

[dbmk]

26. The line is drawn first and foremost at fair elections

Russia does not have that.

[Sodan]

23. Fox News

Wouldn't survive one month in my country - I believe it's the most popular channel in the US?

Wonder why.

[melody]

28. Listen, if you want to believe you are superior, then by all means do so

It's bigotry just the same as any other form of prejudice. And it determines that you are more ignorant than the people you're attacking.

Incidentally, do you know how many "channels" we have in the US? Do you know how few viewers it takes to make one "most popular"? And even at that, Fox is NOT the "most popular".

Enjoy your hatred. May it serve you well.

[Sodan]

33. Where's the hatred?

You calling me ignorant or that I'm saying that Fox News is the most popular channel in the US?

Fox News Channel Leads in 2007 Cable News Ratings:
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6517290

I was wrong about the 1 month - actually FOX News did broadcast here some years ago under a different name.
People didn't like it and they don't broadcast here anymore.

Enjoy your Fox-viewing - may it serve you well.

[melody]

34. I don't watch Fox ... obviously. I'm here. And your hatred is evident.

People don't want to call prejudice what it is -- hatred.

You entirely skipped over my point about how many channels there are. Fox is most popular because it goes to more areas ... it has money behind it. Try to understand something about a country you're discussing before you decide to insult it. BTW, have you ever been here? I've been to Europe and other places in the world.

[Sodan]

37. No hatred

No prejudice.

Been to the USA six times - and around the world as well.

Fox had money too when they tried to broadcast their garbage here in Scandinavia - didn't work. People didn't tune in.

I have no problem insulting Fox-viewers. If people stopped watching Fox it wouldn't exist.
Obviously there's a huge market in the US for that kind of "news".

[melody]

39. We have 300 million people ... you have a different style government and FAR fewer people

It's not worth it to Fox to even try that market because they'll never recoup their investment.

Also, we have a huge country where old populations have burrowed into various regions, becoming fetid from stagnation.
It's a lack of fresh external sources not some kind of intrinsic lesser value of its people. But believe what you like, as I said ... if you need to believe that you're better than another race of people, it remains prejudice. And prejudice is born of ignorance and hatred. I say the same thing to you that I say to the idiots who attend Sarah Palin cross-burnings. It has the very same roots.

Beyond that, there's no point in continuing our exchange.

[mmonk]

15. I view Russia as a type of cobbled together oligarchy.

[arewenotdemo]

22. Nicely stated.

[ensho]

29. agree

nt

[Eurobabe]

7. Well Russia is hardly ' belle of the ball'

But in general, I think we are going to see a new world order. Regardless of who takes the White House. Only question is, will America be a positive influence (Obama) or a negative one (McShitstain) :shrug:

[vaberella]

14. McCain and Palin spent their damn time screaming for a war with Russia.

Now they're about to get one. These people are reckless.

[Karenina]

36. They've already tried to light that fuse...

See: McCain's senior foreign policy adviser, Randy Scheunemann

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080818/scheer2/print

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

16. They're merely saying what the international community already knows.

[Ganja Ninja]

20. Yup. Regardless of what Russia is there's no disputing that ...

"Rogue Nation" is an accusation that we've earned in the last 8 years.

[arewenotdemo]

21. Agreed.

[12string]

17. America,Rogue Nation

Why shouldn't other countries think with ill will and disdain for the United States.We have been fucking with other governments the world over for decades.Think of the Shah of Iran or how about our former buddy Saddam.we've supported tyrants and raped other countries' resources and environments.Now that we are entering the age of globalism we citizens of the U.S.are beginning feel the effects of unbridled corporatism like the rest of the world has known for years.The blinders are coming off and it ain't pretty.I believe now that if there is any hope for America to begin to regain its moral compass,it is imperative to get Obama and Biden into the White-house.If the rethugs steal another one we are history,period.

[AZSlacker]

18. I think this is Russia throwing a temper tantrum because oil prices

are so low at the moment due to the global financial meltdown... which is mostly our fault.

[ensho]

32. they are not throwing a temper tantrum over oil prices, they have

had enough of the criminal US neo cons thinking they owned the world. as have the whole world. (the whole world is not so happy with the UK either)

[Bread and Circus]

24. Russia has a LONG way to go before they call anyone a rogue nation...

It is still an extremely dysfunctional country and their newfound energy wealth is only likely to cripple them further. The Russian people are a good hard working people, but so much of their system is corrupt.

[Sulawesi]

25. Yeah, OK, so the EUs are going to just say that Russia takes the place of the US?

That is pure BS, and a completely transparent ploy by Russia...The ties between the US and EU are very deep, and will live long past the Bush years and get much stringer starting in November...

This just makes Russia look more aggressive

[Renew Deal]

27. Both candidates called them evil the other day.

So I am not totally surprised. There has been lots of Russia hating in this election.

[GreenPartyVoter]

30. There is no doubt that we are, but I think this is also a case of "pot meet kettle"

[LSK]

31. Illegally invade countries? Check; Torture? Check; Weak economy, Check

No manufacturing base? Check; Stolen Elections? Check; Reduction in civil liberties? Check

[TheDonkey]

42. Are you talking about the US or Russia. Sounds like we are bossum buddies!

[Occam Bandage]

35. Which is a bit like Paris Hilton claiming Jamie Lynn Spears is a slut.

[Forkboy]

40. What took so long?

[TheDonkey]

41. With Palin running around acting like leader of the rethuglican party it is hard to disagree

It is obvious that Bush is nothing but a drifting nightmare and it is now Palin who is the face of the repukes. The US being in the middle of this global financial crisis doesn't help our image any.