Sometimes, I actually feel sorry for John McCain.

[Vektor]

Ok, before the blowtorches come out, do give me an opportunity to explain.

Getting old is hell.

While I am less than half the age of McCain, I'm a health care professional who regularly cares for senior citizens, many of them the same age as McCain, and at the end of their life. They are in a weakened condition, with various and sundry health problems, including age related cognitive deficits, cancer, and senility - all things we have either speculated, or know for a fact that McCain suffers from..

It is the ultimate insult when your body betrays you, and you lose your vitality.

So, while I will be the first to stand up and say that I heartily disagree with McCain's political positions, and want more than anything for Barack Obama to be the next president of the United States, I cringe when I hear jokes about McCain being a "doddering old fool", "an old corpse", a "crypt keeper", etc...I get no joy out of seeing photos of him looking pale, sickly, beaten down.

My dear, beloved, and very true blue Democratic father just celebrated his 70th birthday on October 4th. While he looks good for his age, and is still quite active, his hair is white, his hearing is going, and he talks slower, and sleeps more than he used to. He's had one heart attack and a quintuple bypass. He's doing well, all things considered, but he's not as young as he used to be. Watching him grow old before my eyes scares and saddens me and makes me think about his mortality - the same with my Mom. I know they have aches and pains, and take medicines for their blood pressure and cholesterol. I'm sure McCain does too.

So yeah. It's fun to poke fun at a "curmudgeonly old Republican." His "you kids get off my lawn" attitude sort of leaves him open to a lot of ribbing, doesn't it?

But still. We're all going to get long in the tooth and weak in the joints someday. Many of us will end up with cancer. If we're female, we know the odds are AT LEAST one in eight. We are going to dodder, forget, and stumble. We may end up with Alzheimer's.

Let's hope that those around us have compassion, and understanding when we get sick, say things that don't make sense, need to be led by the arm, or become cranky.

So, by all means, rip McCain's policies, beliefs, and voting record to shreds. Criticize his positions, and call him to the carpet if he smears Obama or hits below the belt.

But please try, if you can, (and I'm only asking because I'm a softie who cares for the sick for a living) to refrain from making fun of him for growing old, and showing the manifestations of it.

He can't help it, and it's going to happen to every single one of us.

That's all.


:hug:

[dbonds]

1. Nah, I always think of the many thousands of people that died in the Iraq war...

I remember he pushed for the war, and I have no sympathy for him - the old fart.

[Arugula Latte]

13. Yes, tens of thousands of Iraqis would have LOVED the chance to become old --

but John McCain didn't give a crap about their lives, did he?

[Vektor]

15. No he didn't.

Nor did I claim that was the case.

I'm pretty sure my point is getting WAY missed here.

Getting old = not one's fault.

Being an asshole = one's fault.

Criticize the fault, not the inevitable and unavoidable.

[TwilightGardener]

2. Tired of this crap. He's too fucking old and sick to run for President, but he's

so selfish, so full of his lust for power, his delusions of grandeur, and his sense that America fucking owes him for getting shot down and sitting in a cage, that he's not willing to admit this limitation. If he wasn't jeopardizing the nation with the double-insult proposition of his own emotionally unstable, erratic self at the helm AND a brain-dead evil bitch as the heir apparent to the throne, I'd feel typical human sympathy. But as such, none. I will mock him until he's gone.

[Vektor]

11. I never implied his sins should be overlooked.

I just meant that making fun of his aging body is not really conducive to the argument. All the things you mentioned are valid reasons to criticize him.

My post merely points out that the fact that he is growing old is not really the correct reason to put him in the cross hairs - his POLITICS are the issue, not his age related deficits.

[TwilightGardener]

26. Bullshit--his age-related deficits are a HUUUGE issue, especially

if his brain gets addled or he croaks and Princess Bitchface takes over.

[Vektor]

28. You're not understanding me - and you're being a bit hostile in the process.

Again, I never said that his age related deficits were not relevant, but that they are no reason to MAKE FUN of a person.

It's a simple concept really, but I think you are entirely misreading my intent here.

[whistle]

3. Being old and evil also must be a bitch!

[Vektor]

12. I'm sure it is.

Hate and negativity only make aging more treacherous (and early.)

[MN Treehugger]

4. Believe me, I know what you are saying here

My father in law is in the late stages of Alzheimer's disease and my mother is in the early stages, so I do get the point. It absolutely tears me up inside to see what has happened/is happening to them. I also felt a great deal of empathy towards Raygun and family even though I detested their politics.

I think McCain has sort of brought this onto himself by being such a bastard though, no? I don't remember this sort of vitriol for Bob Dole and he was an old, cranky curmudgeon too.

[yellowdogintexas]

8. Dole has an actual sense of humor, and even skewered himself from time to time.

and Dole is a bit more of a gentleman

[karynnj]

27. The media deemed Dole witty - and a gentleman does not say things he did

In 2004, that creep spoke of how John Kerry did not bleed in Vietnam. Before that, he was in a disgusting Pepsi commercial where he oogled a teen Britney Spears - that is not a gentlemanly thing to do.

[ellie]

5. I did,

too before I read the article about him in the Rolling Stone. What a mean prick. He was a prick when he was young and he is a prick now that he is old.

[chiefofclarinet]

20. Same here

I used to like John McCain back in 2000. I will preface this by saying that I lived in Western Iowa, which was a scarlet red bastion at the time. Granted, I hated Bush with a bitter passion, but McCain seemed different. And Gore never caught my eye at the time. (Since then, I realized that I wasn't mature enough to understand what Gore had to say at the time.)

Now, that I see what he really is like, I never saw the real John Sidney McCain III. I only saw the MSM image of the "straight-talking maverick." I saw McCain being victimized by the Bush campaign, not knowing that McCain was a predator himself. I never knew about his first wife, or the Keating Five, or his father and grandfather being bigwigs in the Navy. I saw the former POW, but never connected it to the hundreds of other POW's that went through the same or worse, but do not deserve to be president any more than John Sidney McCain III.

But, I still had pity for him. But, that Rolling Stone article laid it all out. His life as a whiny brat as a child, his irresponsibility as a young man, his carelessness with planes, his fetish for models, his better treatment as a POW due to his father's position, his corruption as a Congressman and Senator, everything was revealed in a nice, concise format.

John Sidney McCain III is a jerk. He's had a life of privilege, and he is upset that a young, eloquent, intelligent man with a plan for change will prevent him from getting what he wanted. The John McCain I knew in 2000 was a lie, just as the rationale for going into Iraq, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, and the verbiage that Sarah Palin spews every day are lies.

[Vinca]

6. I'm old, too, but I'm not so in love with myself and have such a need

to one up my parent that I must become POTUS at all cost. This campaign is about John McCain's lust for an attractive headstone. He doesn't give a shit about the country. Ask my aching hip he won't insure.

[amitten]

7. I agree. His age has nothing to do with why I dislike him, and I

think using age as an insult lowers people to Freeper level.

Everyone gets old eventually, and McCain is simply too old and unhealthy to be campaigning.

[Vektor]

9. Yikes - well, alright then.

Maybe I just have a different perspective on aging, due to having to work with (and against) the ravages of it for a living.

Being mean is open to criticism. Being old is really nobody's fault.

But I see that this message isn't really hitting home with most. To each their own.

Carry on then. :shrug:

[JohnMcCant2008]

10. Not me - not once, not ever. The effects of aging can be sad - but THIS doddering fool

is running for president. His health, well-being and state of mind is of the utmost importance.

[wildflower]

14. I agree, thank you for posting this.

I want us to win because Americans reject extreme right-wing ideas, not because McCain is old. That's what will help us win in the future. And that would show that Americans still have respect and compassion for elders, but are wise enough to reject bellicose and callous policies.

[Vektor]

16. Ah, thank you.

So you get it - glad to hear it. :-)

[wildflower]

23. You're welcome.

I had just been thinking this morning, if we don't successfully refute right-wing ideas in this election, then what if next time, our candidate is old? Or has had cancer? Or any number of things that don't have to do with right-wing beliefs.

One great thing I've noticed is that all the candidates this year are rushing to embrace regulation and reject deregulation. That's definite progress!

I love your Kerry picture, by the way.

[Avalux]

17. Have you read the Rolling Stone article yet? Once an asshole, always an asshole.

Read it then post again. ;-)

[Vektor]

29. Oh, I never said he wasn't an asshole.

I'm not sure how many different ways I can point that out.

I never realized how badly this post would be misunderstood.

I simply stated that he is disagreeable because of his beliefs and ideas, - his politics. I don't believe the fact that he's getting old is his fault, nor is it the reason I dislike him.

I prefer to stick to criticizing his character, not his while hair and aging body.

Was that really not clear?

[Blue_Roses]

18. I do too...

sometimes. He knows this is his last chance to run for president. Losing is not an option for him. For that I feel sad for him.

[chat_noir]

19. quote from The Independent

It is even possible - apologies to Republicans - that some viewers felt sorry for Mr McCain. Sorry for him when he made a stab at a couple of jokes only to see them fall flat. And sorry for the man who couldn't stop fidgeting when his opponent spoke, either madly scribbling notes or wandering nervously about the edge of the stage like a cocktail guest not sure if anyone at the party liked him.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/body-language-speaks-volumes-in-nashville-955225.html

[Vektor]

38. Exactly.

Thanks. I was starting to wonder if I had posted in Sanskrit, as so many are completely misunderstanding my post.

Ah well, I guess we all have a post that sinks because no matter how hard we try, we just can't get our point across the way we intended.

[Batgirl]

21. At some point we had to take away my Dad's car keys.

He was pretty pissed and of course by that time didn't have the mental functioning to understand why it was better for everyone that he not be driving.

Now I agree, it's not nice to make fun of the elderly based on the afflictions most of us will experience if we live long enough. Personally, after watching my dad's 6-year decline before his death last year at 75, I realize there's probably several boxes of Depends out there with my name on them. I agree it's important to remember we are all organisms that will deteriorate and die. No blowtorches from me.

However, I think a lot of the comments you're referencing actually stem from sheer horror at the spectacle of McCain, with his apparently dwindling mental acuity and physical vitality, trying to get himself into a position of ultimate power. More so than simply being thoughtless expressions of ageism, although there is that too. He's campaigning like someone who should have his keys taken away before somebody gets hurt.

[Vektor]

30. That's a good way of putting it, and I'm glad you understand.

Yes, he is incompetent and should have "his keys taken away". No argument from me there.

Is it funny that he has cancer, and is old and perhaps cognitively impaired? No. Is he fit to be president? No again.

Thanks for taking the time to read the post, and "get it" as well as being able to post an opposing viewpoint respectfully.

[raysr]

22. He should have not made it

back from the "Hilton", obviously he was brainwashed and forever what his personality was, was changed forever.

[Vektor]

31. I think you're right.

I've often thought that myself. I'm sure he came back from 'nam mentally deranged and was never the same thereafter.

[karynnj]

24. Really great post - those comments are creepy

Additionally, I will feel sorry for McCain when he loses - not because he lost, but because as a man who constantly speaks of honor he has run a dishonorable campaign - and he will likely know that.

[Vektor]

36. Oh, he'll know it alright.

And it's a shame that this sleazy campaign is likely to be his last legacy.

I think people are so fired up right now that they are really not taking the time to process what I'm actually saying. Either that, or my career experiences have made me a little more compassionate toward the old and the sick than I might be otherwise, had I not worked so closely, for so long, with those in failing health.

Once someone is on their deathbed, I really couldn't care less what their beliefs were. My job is to see to it that they don't suffer needlessly, and the only thing I am able to see in their final moments is the common humanity that we share, and the fact that a fellow human needs a hand to hold while dying.

I guess if I couldn't do that, I wouldn't be fit for the career I have.

McCain is in failing health. That is certain. Do I feel as if that is a valid reason to laugh at him? No.

It's his dishonor and corruption that are the tragic joke here.

[kiranon]

25. Nonsense. He's old enough to know he's too old to run.

I'll turn 67 soon and in excellent health but there is no way I would run for President or any other very demanding position that requires 24/7 total alertness and concentration. It's time for the younger generation to take over and that's that!

[Vektor]

32. Nonsense? Hmm. I think you must be misunderstanding me, as we actually agree.

I fully believe he is too impaired to be president, and is both mentally and physically unfit. I'm pretty sure I never said anything to the contrary.

I also stated there is no need to ridicule the fact that his body is aging when his character, policies, and beliefs, are the real issue. Is being old what makes him worthy of scorn? Or is it his flawed character?

Being old may make him physically unfit for such a rigorous job, but I don't think that he needs to be ridiculed for being a victim of the aging process. That's not his fault.

His disastrous beliefs are, however, his fault, and I have decided that THAT is what I'll focus on. Not whether or not he has poor bladder control or hypertension.

[rexy]

33. I don't think his age would have been such a big issue

if he had picked a more competent running mate. I think the fact that he is so old and could very well leave us with Palin sparked a lot of talk about his age.

I know what you're saying though. I can't stand to watch McCain because he reminds me so much of a HORRIBLE instructor I had for anatomy and physiology over the summer. The guy was a complete senile ass. He was sick, is getting sicker, and looks and talks so, so much like McCain. He had to take days off for doctor's appointments and ER visits. He couldn't finish the 2nd summer session because of his health so we had a replacement the last 2 weeks of class.

He was a complete jerk. I could go on and on about all the absolutely ridiculous things he said to me as well as the other students. But as much as I hated him during the class, I couldn't help but to feel sorry for him because of his poor health due to his age.

[Vektor]

34. Thanks for getting it.

I never imagined this post would be so completely misunderstood. Where some people got the idea that I was defending McCain, or indicating that I thought he should be given a pass, is beyond me.

It sounds like your teacher was a real ass, just like McCain. Also like McCain, the only thing about him that he COULDN'T help was his age. The rest of it was just him choosing to be a rude ass.

Which is totally fair game for criticism, I agree.

[Left Is Write]

35. I don't feel a bit sorry for him. My father is only three years younger -

and McCain will never be even half the man my dad is, regardless of age.

I know what it's like to get forgetful and have "brain farts" - in my case, it's the temporary confusion that often accompanies the perimenopausal stage of a woman's life. I have to search for words sometimes, and I get frustrated with my memory lapses. This does not give me an excuse to be rude, snide, condescending, dismissive or disrespectful. The frailties of getting older can be scary. They are not excuses to treat people as poorly as McCain does.

[Vektor]

37. If you can point out...

where I said that his age related deficits give him an excuse for being an ass, I will gladly apologize for that, as that was not at all the intent of my post.

I thought I was pretty succinct in what I was trying to say, but I am surprised at how many people seem to have read a completely different post than the one I authored.

In no uncertain terms, (or so I thought) I declared open season on his corrupt character, his politics, his actions.

I also stated that growing old is not really the reason he is an ass, or the reason I choose to criticize him.

At no point did I say "It's ok for him to be a complete dick! He's old!"

[Left Is Write]

39. I'm responding in part to this part -

"Let's hope that those around us have compassion, and understanding when we get sick, say things that don't make sense, need to be led by the arm, or become cranky."

I certainly didn't think you were giving him a license to be a jerk, but suggesting compassion and understanding for "becoming cranky" sounded awfully close to excusing him for his temper.

I don't feel sorry for him. At all. I try to be a compassionate person, but my capacity for compassion wears extremely thin when faced with a person like McCain, old and infirm or not. People who would never dream of using age as a weapon against anyone else do so with McCain because he himself has no scruples when it comes to what he will use against others. He is an asshole with a huge load of arrogance, and that makes it almost impossible to feel any sympathy for him. I'm not proud of the feelings I have toward him, but right now he's living the adage "you reap what you sow."

[Vektor]

41. I see what you're saying.

And I do apologize if it seems like I am excusing him being an ass.

I'm not.

I feel compassion for anyone who is being ravaged by old age, for that reason alone, but I cannot emphasize enough that I do not think McCain's behavior is acceptable. I don't believe that he should be excused for being an asshole because he's old.

I would not be inclined to make fun of the biological changes he is undergoing as he ages, but his lack of a moral compass is completely fair game, no doubt about that.

[Cha]

40. No excuses to feel sorry for that asshole.. Read the

current issue of Rolling STone magazine, "The Make Believe Maverick" and you'll see he's been this way his whole life..running over people.

What's to feel sorry for a raging maniac?

[Vektor]

43. I'm aware he's an asshole, and I have no qualms about criticizing him for that.

The manifestations of old age are not what I find objectionable about him (my original point) but his lack of moral fiber IS.

[Cha]

45. My point is that feeling sorry for someone like

that is useless..everyone gets old but most old people are actually wonderful contributions to our society..not so john mccain.

And, he's not really that old, anyway..8 years old than I am..big deal.

[Vektor]

47. Point taken.

Duly noted, thanks for your input on the thread.

[RagAss]

42. Fuck that senile, hateful fucker !!!!

[against all enemies]

44. He's an asshole, I feel sorry for Chelsea, his "joke" was not funny.

[Vektor]

46. Um, no, it wasn't.

I'm not really sure how many times I can reiterate that I think the guy's an asshole, but not BECAUSE he's old.

I thought it seemed such a simple concept. His age and physical condition are not why he is objectionable.

It's HIS CHARACTER.

Did I somehow fail to mention that I thought he was totally corrupt and his policies worthy of criticism?

Because in rereading my OP, I'm quite certain I mentioned that in no uncertain terms.