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Monday morning quarterbacking Obama's decision to go with Keating

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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 12:54 AM
Original message
Poll question: Monday morning quarterbacking Obama's decision to go with Keating
Two posts already saying it's a mistake. I'm pretty sure they're not concern trolls, just DU'ers that I think really don't get how perfect this timing is.

Your opinion: Bringing up Keating Five scandal

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. Gobama! Nuff said.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. I love it.
Edited on Mon Oct-06-08 12:56 AM by woolldog
It does double duty as a character attack and underminer of McCain's credibility on the economy.
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tosh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Agreed.
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sohndrsmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
35. what woolldog said re: doing double duty on character/economy n/t
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breadandwine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
43. We can't go there. Might hurt McCain's feelings.
...
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. I Wonder What Took So Long
But I must say the timing is perfect.
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
52. Obama believes in political counterpunching
It's clear that he doesn't mind launching attacks, but that he wants to make sure it looks like he's defending himself when he's attacking his opponent. It's a pretty clever strategy to convince voters that the other campaign is the low road campaign. Listening to Obama in some of his stump speeches, I believe that he thinks that if he is viewed as attacking in a way other than trying to defend himself, he will turn off new voters he's brought into the fold.
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27inCali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. hurts McCain right at the center of his strength:
the people old enough to really remember the scandal.

It ties in so perfectly with the current crisis


You see folks, politicians start hanging around with rich people and deregulating the industries the rich people make their money off of, and when the chickens come home to roost, the politicians use your tax money to bail out the rich.

No bail out for you though, here's a pair of bootstraps to pull yourself up by.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
41. The people old enough to vote for McCain will remember!
Excellent post.
:hi:
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. It's the next move in the game of chess.
They made their move by linking Obama to Ayers.
Now it's Obama's turn.
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
7. Some inveterates will be second-guessing Obama's clothes at his Inauguration.
I would had perferred bigger stripes on his tie, that could cost us some votes!
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Hehehe
Love it!
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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
9. As long as they keep using their attacks to keep the economy front and center, it is good.
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writes3000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
10. It's great ESPECIALLY IF Obama ties it back to all the lobbyists who still surround McCain.
It shows that McCain learned nothing.

That should do the trick.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
11. I voted may backfire.
I think it could work, but I don't understand why he has to shift his message...since he's winning.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. That's because you don't see the tie in to the current events......
I suggest that you study the issue of the Savings & Loan debacle a bit more.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. I do see it.
But I still question it.

I don't want this to become a race of associations.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. How is this about "associations"?
Why don't you elaborate?
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Because it's taking something that happened 20 years ago and making it an issue today.
Using his association with Keating for political gain. It could work, or it could be seen as Obama sliming McCain.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. It's about DEREGULATION, and how it didn't work the last time,
and it didn't work this time. Both times McCain was into deregulation, meaning he learned nothing.

McCain is associated to Deregulation directly.....not via association.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #24
38. It was Keating who used McCain......Not so much the other way around.....
That's the part you are missing, I guess.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #24
48. .
Edited on Mon Oct-06-08 04:21 AM by quantessd
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #24
56. It's a much worse story for McCain than the Ayers
thing is for Obama. And Obama is making it clear that this is bc McCain said he will turn the page on the economy and start trying to smear Obama. America gets tit for tat.
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tpi10d Donating Member (291 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
12. Necessary
It doesn't take much to pare 5 points off the polling. A week or two of hits coming from various republican sources will do it-shifting the media narrative and pushing Obama into a defensive position, and keeping him off-messsage. As stupid as the accusations seem to us, a few swing voters will buy into the crap.

This returns equality to the candidates with both playing offense and defense. At best for us our arguments are more relevant to the present economy and we'll win the overall argument. But even if it plays to a draw, we win.

Doing nothing we lose position in the polling and overall result of the election.



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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. That's Why They Are Called "Swing Voters" They. Will. Believe. Anything.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
14. It's not only a good decision, it's a necessary move. Voters need to know how McCain...
...sought only to serve himself during the last financial industry bailout. And I have no doubt that Obama will very deftly connect it to the current crisis.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
16. Obama should have his surrogates do it, and he should refrain from talking about it in the debates.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Why surrogates? There are no lies here.
Is Palin a surrogate? She's the one hurling lines at Barack.

Barack's campaign is about to tell the truth about McCain.

Americans want to see a leader lead at some point, and call out those who deserve it.
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
17. The senate ethics committee slapped McSame for this and Obama should do the same.
Especially given the recent circumstances. Obama just said today the McSame said he wants to turn the page on the economy!

And Obama went on about the economy being more important than 24 hours after the biggest economic crisis since the great depression and McSame wants to turn the page?
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
19. If he hadn't done this, the debate Tuesday would only focus on Ayers
and Obama's connections. Now Brokaw's hand has been forced to cover Keating.
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tpi10d Donating Member (291 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. yes
No matter how good you are at political defense, it is not a good place to be.

This levels the playing field, very possibly tips it in our direction.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. Brokaw won't be forcing anything.
The questions are coming from the audience. It's very likely Ayers is barely mentioned, if at all.

Since the people will be asking questions, expect most of the debate to discuss economic & domestic issues.
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. There will be questions from the internet.
and this is where Brokaw's discretion will come into play. I guarantee you that he's received a billion or so requests on various topics. Yet I would bet any sum of money that Brokaw has at least one question on queue either about Rev. Wright or Williams Ayers.
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FVZA_Colonel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. These are publically submitted questions Brokaw has to select from, right?
I imagine a lot of people would have been asking about Ayers before this; a number probably still will, but I'm betting not at the same level.
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Even Bush has about a 25% approval rating.
If you approve of Bush, I'm guessing that you want to hear more about William Ayers since Hannity and Rush have been beating that dead horse.
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FVZA_Colonel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. I don't doubt it'll come up somehow.
I'm just curious if it will be to the extent it would have otherwise.
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. There's at least one fervent Limbaugh listener in that "undecideds" group
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #19
49. This has to be the dumbest comment Ive seen thus far.
Most of the questions will have to do with the economy.
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Beep beep. School bus stopping by.
I sent it by personally to pick you up. I see you enjoy stalking me, so here's a little free education for ya. :hi:

If you paid attention, you'd realize that the winner of the debate is not determined by who actually wins the debate on debate night. It's determined by the coverage the following days. If the post debate coverage focuses exclusively on the economy, McCain might as well withdraw from all the battleground states and not just Michigan. McCain's strategists know this. The post debate spin from the Tuesday "debate" will be about how scary and dangerous Obama is. The mainstream media, in the interest of false parity as the equivalence of "fair and balanced" coverage, will augment the talking points from both camps.

MSM covers gaffes, attacks, polls, and campaign tactics. Not issues. What are FOX News and MSNBC focusing on this morning? The Dow futures being down 200+ points? The world stock markets dropping like a rock? That's secondary to them. They're covering the William Ayers story as if it is a national emergency. What was the situation of the stock market back when Rev. Wright was playing on a loop? Was the Afghanistan war worsening when Obama bowled a very low score?

By the way, the townhall consists of "undecideds" in Tennessee. If you've never lived in Tennessee, then that would explain why you're clueless.

Class dismissed. :rofl:
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. You didnt say post debate, you said debate
There is a difference.
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Debates are won on postdebate coverage
Edited on Mon Oct-06-08 05:58 AM by endthewar
Welcome stalker. :hi:

I thought that point was made clear in my last post. I feel like Noam Chomsky talking to you. I just hope I don't get dumbed down.

Quick quiz: "Zero points...may God have mercy on your soul." What movie is that from? :rofl:
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. You talked about what Brokaw would choose to cover. That is referring to the debate itself
Not to the coverage. You cant get out of that your just wrong.
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. Referring to the internet questions during the debate.
Following your logic, the audience will ask questions about the economy for the most part. Brokaw will have a few questions submitted over the internet. How many questions do you think were submitted? Do you think he will air all of them? If part of his role as moderator is to avoid duplicate questions, and assuming that the audience will ask questions about the economy, why would Brokaw ask another question about the economy if it was just asked? What news story other than the economy is dominating the news cycle today? Looks like some Ayers coverage to me, featuring video of Palin.

You can take this to the bank: If nobody from the audience asks about Ayers (which you yourself seem to imply since the audience will focus on the real issues), Brokaw will in one way or another ask a question about Ayers or a question about "relationships" that focuses answers on guilt-by-association.



:rofl:
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. DURING THE DEBATE...not during the POST debate.
This debate will be overwhelmingly about the Economy.
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endthewar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. ...


:rofl:

Take a chill pill, your blood pressure is up. :rofl:

Take care. May our next meeting be more friendly! :hug:
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
20. Given that they can poll test the decision and I can't, I trust their judgment
The truth is that while we can all play armchair strategist, we don't have polls and focus groups that will tell us how the public might react to these sort of thing. Admittedly polls can be over-used and made to paralyze a campaign into inaction but this isn't the case here. John Glenn is a tricky part of this equation and polling data on that would be helpful to help make a decision.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
25. Hell yeah! This is great. Fight the Republicans on OUR terms. n/t
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
26. I voted
but I consider it a secret ballot so I'm not telling!

:7
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
29. How many times do we have to replay Dukakis, Kerry, etc?
Edited on Mon Oct-06-08 02:02 AM by LittleBlue
This is a smart move by Obama. I'm tired of playing it safe and losing the lead in the final 3-4 weeks of every damn election.

Show some fucking balls for God's sake!
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #29
42. Except Kerry & Dukakis never held a lead this late in the game.
Dukakis was done by the time October rolled around and the best Kerry could do was tie Bush.
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thesubstanceofdreams Donating Member (625 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
33. Ambivalent

Obama needs to keep the discussion centered around the economy and the issues. He needs to respond forcefully to the smears, but if it becomes a battle of accusations about stuff that happened a long time ago, the rightwingers are much better at smearing and have better-funded 527s.

If the economy and the discussion of the platforms dominate the campaign then Obama wins in a landslide. That's why McPalin is trying to turn this into a smearing battle.

On the other hand, Obama has been running a very smart campaign so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #33
46. No, they're trying to change the subject.
Smears just happen to be the only way they can do that.

Keating allows Obama to stab McCain in the belly while saying, "So about that economy...."
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Thom Servo Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
34. Yep
Absolutely!
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
39. This man is fighting for us....
and he is using exactly what he needs to win. McCain is part of this mess, his past proves it. USE IT. GO OBAMA.

I am thrilled beyond tears, we have a man who is fighting for us. Lets get behind him. This is for all of US. THIS IS THE TIME WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR!
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 02:43 AM
Response to Original message
40. You don't respond to the Ayers thing with just defense. You launch.
Edited on Mon Oct-06-08 02:44 AM by TexasObserver
They say "Ayers," we say "Keating Five."

It is a mistake to simply answer the charges McCain makes about Ayers. We must also go on the offensive, and make him play defense in responding. When Obama has failed to do that in the past, he has seen his lead erode.

Obama must fight back and Keating Five is the topic that is ripe, because it involves the LAST big Republican business scandal, the collapse of the S&Ls.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 03:15 AM
Response to Original message
44. Go for it!!! They started it and now
we're going to finish it and them!
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
45. IIRC the Obama campaign warned them not to go negative
Something about "just telling the truth" about McCain
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 03:56 AM
Response to Original message
47. Can You Spell NuKuLar Boys And Girls?
eom
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
54. Why are you sure they are not concern trolls? One of them has at least two threads on
Keating 5 going at the same time.
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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
57. I think it is okay for him to bring it up, given the topic is associations and the economy but
I don't see it as Monday morning quarterback. Perhaps it is too soon to drop the bomb? Perhaps next Monday would be perfect and do more damage? I don't know. But I like the fact that they are dropping the Keating bomb because it is important for people to know this and not let McCain get away with attacks without taking a hit himself.

GOBAMA!
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-08 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
59. I whooped and jumped up and down with I heard this on tee vee
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