They are Stealing the Election! Stop Them Now!

[goclark]

I love Obama and want him to win with all my heart but this is the "Wolf In The Closet."

:mad:

I read the thread below and I wanted to cry.This is serious and should be the #1 Priority of all of us but it is not.

We think that if we GOTV it will overwhelm all the Rove Elves. It won't work!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4105753#4105753

We can GOTV/pray/write long threads/wear t- shirts/phone bank/knock on doors all we want to but we MUST have a 7/11 PLAN that stops the thugs in their tracks from stealing this election.

Did I miss something or are we slow learners?
Gore - Kerry WON!!!

No one seems to be addressing this issue and/or spelling it out to the American people.

It should be in 7 - 11 language and made to get around to EVERY Democrat faster than the Underground Railroad.

When will that happen? Some states are already "voting" and votes are being stolen as we complain about Sarah Palin.

Sarah Palin is doing exactly what they need her to do,play smoke and mirrors while the Rove Elves do their dirty work.

THIS is the October - November Surprise and THIS is why Mc Cain isn't worried in the least bit.

What is the Democratic Party doing?
What is Move On doing?
What is the Obama Campaign doing?
How do we monitor elections in our states?

My friend is a lawyer.
He monitored the Primaries in Ohio. He was there on the ground a full week before the election and he said what he SAW and tried to legally FIX on Election Day was criminal! They could not stop it. The fix was in,the train had left the station.

We should have learned from the past that Election day and the week before will not work.

I demand to know NOW what is the PLAN to stop ROVE, what is it!

[elocs]

1. Wasn't there a plan to stop it in 2004? How did that turn out?

My guess is that when Republicans hear Democrats talk tough about stopping election fraud, they just laugh. They all but told us they would steal the election in 2004 and still succeeded. Are Democrats really that feckless or are Republicans really that omnipotent?

[goclark]

9. What was the Plan? It must not have trickled down to the

voters in the states that mattered.

What was the Plan?

I don't care if Republicans laugh!
Let them laugh and let us put them on notice.
As of now all they know is that we are registering thousands of new voters.

So, they are prepared for that but are we prepared to stop it?

We need Answers!

[elocs]

19. Wasn't it lawyers, lawyers, everywhere? Count every vote and make every vote count? n/t

[goclark]

36. Lawyer's didn't work for Gore or Kerry

:shrug:

What can we do so that this doesn't happen again?

[Laelth]

40. Spoonamore explains why lawyers can't fix this.

Lawyers can't read or examine electronic ones and zeroes transmitted over wires. That's not a job for a lawyer--it's a job for a computer programmer, and because the software that runs these machines is proprietary (secret code), we the people aren't even allowed to see how it works and whether it counts votes fairly.

There's nothing that an army of lawyers could do to fix that.

-Laelth

[goclark]

41. That is exactly what my lawyer friend said ~ I agree

By the time the lawyers try to fix it, the votes are counted and another Bush experience.

We can't have that when we could work quickly to inform our voters that we won't allow any " Tricks with our VOTES!"

Thanks for reinforcing that for us. :hug:

[OKNancy]

2. Do you people who believe this stuff plan on voting?

or is it useless.

Seems to me if you really believe it you will give up and not vote.
It also seems to me that this kind of thing is vote supression.

Personally I think all this UNSUBSTANTIATED hand-wringing is doing more harm than good.

FWIW, that guy in the video looks like a nutcase to me.

[goclark]

11. How dare you think that we would not Vote!

Providing information to VOTERS would encourage people to vote!

The guy in the Video is just one messenger, we are NUTS for not doing something about it!

[liberalmuse]

12. It is not unsubstantiated.

And I think you know that. I think something like this would make people come to the polls all the more.

I'm sorry if this disturbs people here, but it is a very likely scenario. I hope to hell we're wrong, but what if we aren't? We need to be aware of what they are planning and if people are aware, they can watch for any funny business at the polls and document it with their cell cameras.

The best hope on our side is that the numbers of voters coming out for Obama are large enough to offset the planned fraud, or that some glitch happens so that the software loaded into the machines by the perpetrators accidentally dumps McCain's votes rather than Obama's. ONE machine per swing state is all they need.

[goclark]

15. You are so right! Why are some of us covering our heads?

We can not sit still and believe that they won't Steal it!

We need Action.

Move On etc. Need to run ADS, especially in Newspapers in the communities that we know they will try to steal.

We need Messages posted near Bus Stops and Metro Rails!

Obama needs to start saying strong code words like," Don't Let Them Trick You" ~ Crawl to the Polls, Use Our Website to Make Sure You are Registered and Make Sure You Know Where Your Polling Place Is."

[crankychatter]

14. John Conyers - is he a "wingnut" too -"unsubstantiated handwringing?" WE are the vote suppressors?

Were you aware that Colorado lost a HUGE percentage of minorities and democrats to caging?

Were you aware that Republicans in Kansas are openly bragging about the HUGE number of Democrats they were able to cage?

Do you even know what caging is?

Did you see the videos of Ohio? Have you followed the hearings?

Are you aware that people HAVE SERVED TIME IN THE PENITENTIARY for their CRIMES IN OHIO... thanks to the investigative work of people like Bob Fritakis?

Who are you calling a "wingnut" Oklahoma?

"Are you who philosophize disgrace, and criticize all fear? Take that rag away from your face...."

NOVEMBER "will be the time for your tears." Mr. Zimmerman

[crankychatter]

18. btw what kind of sneering insult is that "you people" reference... you mean WE Democrats? nt

[OKNancy]

26. check my profile

and I didn't say wingnuts. He is just an ordinary nut.
and yes I mean "you people" ever since that hag Bev Harris showed up here,
it's been one dumbass conspiracy after another.

I've decided to speak up. I know a lot of DUers are feeling like I am.

[Lorentz]

43. Amen! I'm sick of this defeatist "They're going to steal the election" crap.

They come on here and tell us how they know the elections will be a sham, yet they don't do anything about it except post their paranoid thoughts to a message board.

[Lorentz]

44. Don't pretend you speak for the majority of Democrats with your lunatic conspiracy theories.

It's an insult to the party you claim to "support" (by saying that they will inevitably lose to the GOP).

[Overseas]

51. Yes fraud has been documented. Need to vote in huge numbers to overcome the fraud.

There is a good review of the various techniques New Republicans have used to disenfranchise Democrats in the documentary Stealing America Vote by Vote, www.stealingamericathemovie.com . The movie also compares new techniques with historical methods of election fraud.

The New Republicans have tried to be discreet by cheating only a few percent here and there, so we want to overwhelm that with millions more voters than they expect. That's our only hope, to overwhelm them with numbers and to be patient if people are still standing in long lines on election day and counting needs to continue into a second day. Or time is required to analyze evidence of fraud before a result is declared.

Republicans use various methods to manipulate elections, not just electronic. They've even distributed fliers and made robocalls to misdirect Democrats to different polling places and dates. Republicans believe The Ends Justify the Means.

One of their favorites in 2004 was to challenge voter registrations at the polls, mostly to slow things down and discourage Democrats by making them stand in line for hours and hours. They are planning to do this again.

Republicans get into posts at the Secretary of State to manage elections. They make "mistakes" and distribute too few machines to Democratic precincts. They send the newest machines to Republican areas. I believe that in Ohio at least, they've discontinued allowing voting machines to be left unguarded overnight at precinct workers' homes.

Republicans are continuing their vote caging this year but some of that has been stopped by lawsuits. In particular the plan to send "registration update" cards to voters whose homes were foreclosed, with a "do not forward" order. When the cards come back Return to Sender, the voters are dropped from the rolls.

When we were crying out about these dribs and drabs anomalies to manipulate the elections in 2004, we were told that each separate incident was "too small to affect the final outcome," and to stop being conspiracy theorists. Only later, when all the problems were compiled, did we see that those incidents added up to a major flip in the final vote totals.

Here's a review of 2004: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

[valerief]

3. I think Diebold/Premier/ESS machines needed to be hacked up with axes

by vote protectors (civil disobedience). That didn't happen. Now when they steal the election AGAIN, Bush will have the Army and Blackwater use their anti-riot tactics on us. Will probably use that noise machine Russia used. It makes victims fall to the ground in pain, as I understand it.

They steal the votes. They steal the dissent. They've stolen the country.

Welcome to Communist China, kiddies!

[emlev]

4. Here's a start:

Go to VotersUnite.org. Sign up for Daily Voting News. Read it daily to find out what's going on.

Go to STEALING AMERICA: Vote By Vote. Watch the film preview. Click on Take Action. There you'll find lots of things groups and individuals are doing to stop this, and ways you can join in. There's information there about how to prepare to monitor elections and how to monitor NOW some of the pre-election procedures. More info will be added on actual monitoring procedures.

Go to StandingForVoters.org. There you'll find a pledge we're asking candidates to take, committing to challenging elections if necessary AND to waiting until all votes are counted and all serious challenges resolved before conceding the election. Click on "For Voters" to find out how you can get more candidates to sign the pledge. Because in some situations -- recounts in some states, Congressional challenges, etc. -- the candidates are the only ones who have the legal standing to initiate challenges. So, while we cannot yet depend on them to do so, we must prepare them to challenge even as we also use all the other tools available.

There is a lot happening. Will it be enough? It'd be a lot closer if political parties and groups like MoveOn would join in. Pressure them to do so. Gather people together and take action. You don't have to start from scratch in figuring out what to do. These resources will help. Spread the word: all hands on deck!

[goclark]

7. Txs for all your positve information . I will bookmark this thread

and take action!

Please keep kicked for more links and tricks so that we Out Slick Rove.

:hug:

[PlanetBev]

5. Thanks for kicking this again, GoClark. I saw the original post last night

and was horrified. I sent the YouTubes of Stephen Spoonamore to everyone I know. I woke up this morning and this was the first thing on my mind. Everyone should go to VelvetRevolution.us and look at all the videos of this guy.

Yeah, I'd like to know too, is anyone on top of this? This is what Greg Palast has been talking about for years. We're all excited about being ahead in the polls and laughing at Palin, but with this, the election could be all but over.

[OKNancy]

6. oh good grief...

[liberalmuse]

8. I was up in the middle of the night last night over this.

This is what scares me more than anything. I've read that even if Obama is up from McCain as much as 10%, they can still steal it using the electronic voting machines. I'm fucking terrified. I don't know what to do. Pray to the little gremlins in the machines and ask them to stop it? I feel so helpless!

People have gone to court time and time again, trying to get rid of these machines, but the judges have thrown the cases out, one after another. We need to go back to paper ballots and destroy these machines once and for all. If this election is stolen, there will be a revolt. I think the Bushies know this, and that is why they are setting up a Brigade stateside.

Anyone who is a party to election fraud should be imprisoned up to 15 years for Treason. Treason used to get the death penalty, and I think I would be for that, if it could be proven, especially in Rove's case. If they steal this, as far as I'm concerned, nothing should be off the table in order to put a stop to this and punish those responsible.

[goclark]

17. Txs for understanding how urgent this is ~ we don't have time to waste

If they win and we don't it will prove that in 8 years ~ we sat back and did nothing.

It is not too late to inform our voters that " The Tricksters Are Busy" and The Trick will be on them if they try to mess with our votes!

Halloween is coming up so this is just the right time to start the

" We are The Treat So Beware of the Tricksters" Call Out.

The only way that Bullies can be stopped is to get right in their face.

[City Lights]

27. It's not just electronic voting machines. Optical scanners also use a central

tabulator.

[trueblue2007]

10. Former McCain Insider Charges Election Fraud. Implicates McCain, Bush, Cheney and Rove

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Former-McCain-Insider-Char-by-Richard-Clark-080831-389.html

Check out the revelations of Stephen Spoonamore -- a lifelong Republican, erstwhile member of McCain's campaign, and a prominent expert on computer fraud. Spoonamore has copious hard evidence revealing that Bush/Cheney stole a number of key races, starting with Florida eight years ago. He has named names, and has the goods to back up every claim. Plus, he knows quite a lot about plans to use illegal methods to make McCain America's next president (which is the reason he quit McCain's campaign).

http://www.velvetrevolution.us/prosecute_rove/


<snip>

The RoveCyberGate Campaign is working with Ohio election attorneys Cliff Arnebeck, Bob Fitrakis and Henry Eckhart to investigate reports that Karl Rove designed and directed a strategy to manipulate elections through the illegal use of computers and computer experts. One such expert is Karl Rove’s cyber guru Michael Connell, who has worked for the Bush family for over 20 years helping Bush Sr., Jeb and Bush Jr. “win” their respective elections. Whistleblowers, some of them Republican, say that several of these and other national elections have been rigged through various invisible and illegal means, including vote tabulation manipulation, partisan use of the Justice Department to target Democrats and uncooperative US Attorneys, and the laundering of hundreds of millions of corporate dollars funneled into fake advocacy groups directed against Democratic candidates running for public office. Ex-Alabama Governor Don Siegelman has stated publicly that Rove was the person most responsible for rigging the election that he, Siegelman, thereby lost. Siegelman further states that Rove also initiated the trumped-up criminal prosecution (of Siegelman) that followed, which in very short order put Siegelman behind bars. In the following video clips, GOP cyber sleuth and former McCain supporter Stephen Spoonamore testifies that the leadership of the GOP has been "lying, and stealing elections" with rigged voting machines etc., for quite some time. http://www.velvetrevolution.us/prosecute_rove/images/Spoon_Full.wmv and http://www.velvetrevolution.us/Video/SpoonPC-2.wmv

Spoonamore says that Rove’s goal is to by this means establish a unitary executive branch with a completely cooperative and supportive judiciary, a weak legislature, and a fearful press. Corporate sponsors of this strategy -- such as tobacco, energy, telecom, and pharmaceutical companies -- are to be rewarded with a hands-off government, i.e. deregulated oversight, stringent limits on class-action damages, and courts that are packed with pro-business/anti-consumer judges, etc. http://www.velvetrevolution.us/images/Mukasey.pdf

The Velvet Revolution’s campaign is backing the Ohio attorneys’ federal civil lawsuit through which depositions will be taken from those identified as being involved with, or having knowledge of, Karl Rove’s “CyberGate,” including Michael Connell, Jack Abramoff, Michael Scanlon, Bob Ney, Brett Rapp, Ken Blackwell and others. Ohio attorneys intend to file a racketeering (RICO) lawsuit against those identified in this case and will refer any proof of criminal activity to both state and federal authorities for criminal prosecution.

This legal strategy will require significant resources for lawyers, expert witnesses, videotaped depositions, public relations, and investigators. Attorneys will need to go toe to toe with the top lobbyist law firms which will be hired to represent the groups that are being targeted. One of the targets is the US Chamber of Commerce which has spent close to a half billion dollars on lobbying since George Bush was inaugurated. Evidence shows that Rove used the Chamber to bankroll many of the illegal attacks, using fake front groups posing as advocacy organizations. http://www.velvetrevolution.us/images/KAIRIS.doc


Press and Federal Election Commission reports show that Rove and Connell are now working for the McCain presidential campaign. Growing amounts of hard evidence suggest that, using illegal methods and working together, Rove and Connell have delivered sought-after election results many times in the last decade. So, for what more likely reason than this would these two now be working for John McCain? And what more important task could there be than to make sure that these two crooks are not able to successfully manipulate the upcoming presidential election?

http://www.velvetrevolution.us/prosecute_rove/

[lonestarnot]

25. Please post this fucking thing in it's own thread!

If you don't I will and that is a threat! :evilgrin:

[thunder rising]

13. VOTE BY MAIL!!! You'll get a paper ballot and it will be counted in front of lawyers

[goclark]

20. Txs for the information ~ but is that in every state?

I've heard that in some states the have sent out illegal Registration Forms and the people will think they are OK.

Each state has different laws and we need to know them.

[secondwind]

16. I just tried to volunteer to be an Exit Poll Volunteer, filled in all the blanks, and pressed

"SUBMIT" ...........nothing happened.

I tried again "SUBMIT".........nothing happened.

WTF?

[goclark]

21. Same thing happened to me. I have worked the polls for three elections

and it always amazed me why after calling and calling I was never chosen to WATCH anything.

I know the trick but I don't know how to get around it.

Txs for inspiring me.

I'll call again tomorrow.

[lonestarnot]

23. Get a fucking address and go there!

[goclark]

28. I have the address and I will follow through

Why the anger ~ are we not on the same side?

[lonestarnot]

31. I wasn't angry at you, just the fucking crap we have to go through to maintain a voting right in the

United States of America. If you aren't angry about it, I would question you as to why not.

[lonestarnot]

22. What is up with dat? You sure it was legit?

[frickaline]

24. While I'm no fan of electronic voting, I don't find this guy very credible

Protocols like IPSEC, PGP and IKE are built in to just about every IP implementation out there. Spoonamore's conjecture that Diebold isn't using key exchange is not realistic. (FYI that is all IKE is ... Internet Key Exchange.) How strong of an encryption algorithm they use, well who knows (and that one is a good question), but there is just no way they aren't using one. He's being an alarmist on that one point for sure, mostly likely because he hopes it will force some transparency. I imagine that if these systems were as insecure as he claims, he or someone else that would benefit from the publicity, would have hacked one by now (or at least gotten a network trace to verify that there is/isn't encryption).

Also, his expectations that political employees understand the technical pieces of they voting system is laughable. Why would this be an expectation?

This being said, I do agree with him on the transparency issue. Those who are technical should be allowed to investigate these systems for flaws. This black box approach does us all a disservice. It makes these systems more prone to error and causes people to believe their votes were not properly counted. And there should always be a paper trail, just in case.

[goclark]

29. Why are we debating the merits of "this guy?" The issue is

will they steal our votes if we are stupid enough to sit back and do nothing to inform our Voters that there will be a problem if we are not clear about the fact that they will TRY to steal it?

[frickaline]

30. I thought the point here was to look for some proof that they could actually succeed

The material posted in this thread did not provide enough compelling data imo.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be more transparency but I see no smoking gun here. I refuse to fear a potential problem due to lack of qualified information. If this can happen, someone should probably prove it. This guy seems to have the expertise but he's failing to provide any actual proof, only conjecture.

[goclark]

32. The proof was known in 04 and 08, the link is just an example

of what could happen ~~~~ again.

How much proof do you need and do you think that they are going to Rove's office and arrest him? Do you think they will put their hands up and say, " This is what we are going to do to steal it in 08?"

Should we ask the Supreme Court to please be fair and not let them be mean and steal our votes again?

The Courts are all on Rove's side and we must be ready for them this time.

Huum ~ it should not be this hard to help a Democrat understand the sincerity and concern of this issue.

End of Discussion

[frickaline]

35. Let's just get the facts straight, you seem to be missing a few

You sited a page *specifically* detailing Spoonamore's take on electronic voting and begin a thread that references nothing else on possible forms of election fraud.

I responded in context and said, look, it's conjecture. That's all I'm saying. This is nothing but fear mongering. Its like saying "keep looking behind yourself every other step guys because you never know when the Rove gnomes might be coming for you!". This is completely irrational behavior.

My point is NOT that election fraud can't or hasn't existed but rather to frame a bit of rational thought around the SPECIFIC video that you sited. My hope is to generate a more productive, rational discussion of ways where an attack is likely and ways where an attack is not likely. In my opinion, a thought-out and targeted approach makes a lot more sense than a paranoid, all-inclusive one.

[ShortnFiery]

33. Suggestion: Every "democratic table" should have several Extra large plain black shirts.

For people who come to the polls with an Obama/Biden t-shirt on. They can put the plain black shirt on top of this in order to get IN and VOTE.

[goclark]

34. Excellent idea or they can turn their Obama T - Shirt inside out

if it doesn't show through.

That is a big part of the Education for VOTERS 08 Plan.

[barack the house]

37. All the info I have absored would say we will get an honest result. >

Just avoid those absentee ballots from McCain and all should be well.

[grantcart]

38. Obama has set up teams of attorneys to monitor problem areas

they flew attorneys out of my CD to Texas for the caucuses.

I am sure that they know the areas that need special examination.


Its one thing for somebody to effect a difference in one or possibly two areas but to do it in massive numbers in dozens of locatons requires a conspiracy that, IMHO, is not sustainable.

if they could do that I think they would have in the 2006 off year elections.

If you vote absentee you can be sure that you are creating a paper trail.

[goclark]

42. Txs grantcart, you always add depth to the discussion

My fingers are crossed and I'm registering new voters at the Mall this weekend.

Last week we registered a 25 year old Male. He said he was voting for the first time in his life.

When he completed his form he was so excited he started hugging all of us!

I'll always remember that ~ that's America to me.

[Laelth]

39. There's nothing we can do at this point.

I doubt there's any kind of plan in place to deal with the possible theft of yet another election. For many years, there was nothing we could do. Republicans controlled Congress. That we have not instituted national paper ballots for federal elections feels like criminal negligence to me. The Democratic Congress we have enjoyed since 2006 could have done something, but didn't. It is, truly, too late now.

Like a poster above, I hope we can win by a large enough margin to offset the Republicans' attempt to steal it again--and there's every reason to believe they will try. I have already voted--on an electronic Diebold (Republican) machine with no paper trail.

-Laelth

[Clio the Leo]

45. If we get out the vote, it will overwhelm the Rove elves. ;-) NT

[riqster]

46. Ostrich Dems are our worst enemy

...and there are a fair few here, as well as in the nation at large.

There is a large amount of anecdotal evidence, and a number of studies by respected entities, which show serious problems with security and performance: go to the links in some of the other posts on this thread. After filtering through the screechings of Bev Harris and her ilk, you CAN find good scientific and statistical information. As with anything that has political ramifications, there's a lot of chaff to sift, of course. It is much easier to shrug and apply tendentious labels at those who raise issues, but it is not helpful in the long run.

Having a few decades in IT, plus actual experience in the Election Industry, I know whereof I speak. I am hamstrung by my NDA and cannot provide personal 'proof' without getting de-jobbed, but I will tell you this:

I have seen the guts of e-voting, up close and personal. I vote a paper ballot.

[goclark]

47. Txs for helping us to have eyes wide open instead of shut

Silly question ~ is it possible to ask for a paper ballot instead of using the machines?

I know that we can vote "Absentee" but I'm always worried about the many people who touch my stamped envelope before it get's to the Main Office.

I was planning to vote absentee but carry my ballot into the location and place it in the box.

:shrug:

[riqster]

48. Dup

[riqster]

49. Dup

[riqster]

50. In Ohio, you can ask for a paper ballot at the polling place

...thanks to Sec. Brunner. But that's recent, I used to vote absentee (as you plan to) in order to have a paper ballot.

Election laws are handled on a state level, so I suggest calling your county Board of Elections to find out what your options are.

[goclark]

52. Thanks ~ I'll make the call

I want my vote to count.