NO, the Mediawhores didn't spin Bush as winning in debates w/Kerry. Please stop revising history.

[KittyWampus]

they didn't. I remember full well Bush lost all debates with few pundits trying to claim otherwise.

Anyone who claims differently really needs to present links to prove otherwise.

Yes, they also initially said Gore won the debates but quickly changed their tune. So that claim is true.

[navarth]

excuse me, I remember exactly what you're saying didn't happen.

I am NOT in the mood to be confrontational.

BUT perhaps you need to present some links yourself? That might be instructive.

(on edit) Wait. Perhaps I'm mixing it up with the debates with Gore.

[KittyWampus]

3. LOL! all you have to do is go through DU archives. edit- but Donkey did us a favor

and found at least one link to CNN.

[navarth]

6. see my edit please

[KittyWampus]

9. Cool, YOU FORGOT POLAND!!! :-D

[navarth]

13. but really, regarding the debates with Kerry...

remember when Bu$h ran amok? left the podium, wouldn't listen to the moderator?

the media should have been on top of that insane behavior. where the fuck were they?

[TheDonkey]

1. It was a "tie" during the own hall (Kerry still won)

But I agree that the MSM and American public KNEW that Kerry won the first debate and pretty much all the debates in general.

[TheDonkey]

2. link

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/03/election.poll/index.html

[KittyWampus]

4. thanks for doing some heavy lifting on this.

[Overseas]

5. OK I"m sorry. They've just been so much in the tank for McLame.

They've given him the benefit of the doubt 90% of the time this campaign season.

They'll probably concede that Obama won but still praise McLame if he gets a few sentences right.

[KittyWampus]

7. Remember the spittle on Bush's chin during that one Kerry debate? GOT WOOD?

[Overseas]

12. I remember "Hard Work" and the mic box on Bush's back.

Didn't catch the spittle.

[wyldwolf]

8. I think you're right

Some called the last one a draw:

http://a.abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/story?id=163784

Others had Kerry the clear winner:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=a3OLNjZOQl.A&refer=us

And here's one saying Kerry dominated in the first debate:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=atbjOwrBDRdg&refer=top_world_news

[Sebastian Doyle]

20. That may be how Bloomberg reported it

But Bloomberg isn't a TV network (yeah I know they have a business news channel, but that's beside the point) and the sheeple who are vulnerable to Chimp/McCain bullshit don't read Bloomberg.

The fact that ABC called it a "draw" when it clearly was not, is closer to the real picture (of media complicity)

[LibraLiz1973]

10. He definitely lost those debates.

[Drunken Irishman]

11. Kerry was down 9 points nationally the week of the first debate in a CBS poll.

The week after, Kerry and Bush were tied in the same poll.

Bush was universally panned in his first debate and it's the reason 2004 turned into a horse race instead of a blowout in favor of Bush.

I see this a lot, but no, the media didn't spin the debates for Bush.

[KittyWampus]

14. Ultimately, it's a measure of how badly Bush did during debates they couldn't spin it for him

[TheDonkey]

23. It makes me nervous that Kerry was leading narrowly after the debates

we can't get too comfortable with our thin leads now either. A lot can happen in one month. We have to continue to fight fight fight and not get complacent.

I fear Obama may be settling down. With the crisis photo ops I haven't heard him articulate attacks on McCain or McClown's character which is something he needs to continue to do.

[Drunken Irishman]

25. I don't think Kerry ever lead.

The debate when from a comfortable Bush lead, to toss-up after the debates.

[PATRICK]

15. Many newspapers

simply juxtaposed the points each debater made and gave no impression of the disaster Bush was in his live appearance. The media seemed ready to tackle the Internet based hidden mike story and the WH already was coming up with alibis as the story was not pushed by Kerry and faded. We could have gotten a lot more mileage out of the scarily inept performance by Bush but no one was spinning it as a win. When Mondale slaughtered a mentally stumbling Mondale, "winning" didn't matter. All they wanted then after was the barest of assurance, which, despite a rambling runon sentence without a finish at the end, was what they got.

The difference in Mondale's face in both debates was all anyone needed to make the ridiculous conclusion, as debates are rarely won by quality or facts.

[msallied]

16. Exactly! Kerry was much more favored in the debates. Gore was the one with the issue...

He screwed the pooch during that townhall with Dubya when he sauntered arrogantly over to Bush as Bush was answering a question. Look, I know a lot of us were like "Yeah Gore, you show that dummy who's boss!" but I'm telling ya, that ruined him a good deal. He came off as arrogant and it turned off a lot of moderates.

Also, the perception was that Gore won the debates where people were merely listening to the audio. But perception changed during the television broadcast. Bush looked as smooth and cool as a cucumber next to Gore. A stark contrast to his weak-kneed "hard work" in 2004.

[torbird]

17. Thanks for this post

People need to calm down a bit and remember that John McCain isn't GW Bush and we are 8 years removed from that kind of manufactured BS.

Expectations for McCain are NOT low.

McCain has MORE experience than Obama, at least in years served.

GOP pollsters -- like Luntz -- aren't working for the networks this time, trying to spin crappy performances into "wins," the way they did in 2000.

We're winning, y'all. Deep breath.

Enjoy the debate tonight. Just for one night, be at peace and have a little fun.

[Uncle Joe]

28. On top of that, the Internet is stronger today than it was and thus is more capable of refuting

corporate media B.S. than it was in 2000.

I believe this was the primary motivation behind the corporate media's near two year slanderous, libelous "War Against Gore" prior to the selection of 2000. After the long corporate media inpired witchunt against Clinton, the Clinton Lewinsky Scandal, impeachment, and relatively prosperous times, the corporate media knew integrity could be played as a key issue.

Al Gore was the primary political champion in support of opening up the Internet for the people, thus expanding their freedom of speech power more than anything since the First Amendment went in to effect Dec. 15th 1791. The corporate media never appreciated Al Gore's vision or leadership, they only saw his legislative work and the growing Internet as a threat against their long held monopoly on one way information, information = power, money and influence.

"Al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet" was only one of many, but a most powerful example of a corporate media slander that would go on to cost over ten thousand American lives, hundreds of billions if not a trillion or two dollars in treasure, and any sense of respect, goodwill or admiration for the U.S. from the rest of Earth.

So in regards to the upcoming debate, I believe Obama benefits from a stronger and more influential Internet as a whole representing the best interests of the people and not just the corporations.

[suston96]

18. Actually...Nobody wins these "debates"....cuz they ain't debates.....

They are questions and answers which the viewers or listeners watch or listen to and then they decide which answers they prefer. By election time, most in those audiences may not even remember what was discussed.

And in most cases, neither will historians.

Wait, I remember Bush telling Gore and the audiences in 2000 that he would never engage in nation building. Yeah, I remember that.

[Sebastian Doyle]

22. And along with that, Chimpy also sad that he would have a "humble foreign policy"

If the PNAC agenda was his idea of "humble", I'd hate to see his idea of "arrogant" :scared:

[CTyankee]

19. The first one was a definite win for Kerry. The rest, well I do have a memory

of thinking Kerry owned them all and was surprised to hear some media talking heads saying different. I was watching GMA and ABC's evening news in those days. I came away with the impression that the reviews were "mixed" by the media.

But of course, I couldn't possibly watch ALL of the media commentators all of the time, no one can! So you have an impression and that was mine...

[KittyWampus]

21. fair enough.

[ShortnFiery]

24. When the economy is chugging along, it's easy for the M$M to distract the unwashed masses with

insignificant items, i.e., remember Gore's sigh or Dean's scream.

However, now we are faced with "a true crisis" and people are waking up out of their SitCom mentalities to actually pay attention to detail. IMO, that's the difference that will render performance within to tonight's debate all important.

You can't spin "Swagger" into "Competence" when the audience wants LEADERSHIP that will provide us with workable solutions. :thumbsup:

[CTyankee]

29. You are so right! I am thinking that the MSM is genuinely afraid now.

Since 04 we have had the NY Times, The New Republic and some talking heads actually apologizing for their stance on the Iraq War. Lots of disasters (including Katrina) have come down since the last election. It has had a sobering effect on the media.

I think Palin and this current crisis finally did it for them.

[politicasista]

30. And also...

This is:

post Iraq Civil War
post Schiavo
post Katrina, Rita, Ike, Gustav
post $3.00 a gallon, gas shortage
post horrible economy

And people aren't buying the media spin of the day either.

[cloudythescribbler]

26. I remember DISTINCTLY on C-SPAN (!) They at first tried to palm off FIRST debate as strong by Bush!

Napoleon said something about history being a pack of lies

[book_worm]

27. how about you providing links for your assertion? it's your thread.

[mikiturner]

31. Kerry certainly dominated the first one

Scarborough was on right afterward claiming a clear convincing win for Kerry.

[ProSense]

32. Kerry won all three debates

Posted at the AEI website

The voters agree, according to the polls: John Kerry won all three debates. Did those wins do the Democratic nominee any good? Well, yes. The debates got Kerry back into the game. In September, President Bush was building up a lead. Now the race is neck and neck.

The debates cemented Kerry's advantage. That advantage can be summarized in one word--issues. Growing numbers of Americans are dissatisfied with the way things are going in the country. They think the economy is getting worse--50 percent said so in the latest Gallup Poll, up from 45 percent in September. They think it's a bad time to find a quality job--so said 67 percent of respondents in October, up from 61 percent in September. They are very concerned about gasoline prices (59 percent), and they think those prices will continue to rise in the next three months (67 percent).

With the polls, both telephone and Internet, all showing sweeping wins for Kerry, and with the pundits calling either a draw or a Kerry victory, there is now little doubt that Kerry won not only this debate, but all three debates. Every time, Kerry crushed Bush among independents and undecideds. Every time the enthusiasm of the left wing netroots was greater than that of our equally sized right wing adversaries.

link

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - A strong showing in the three presidential debates has helped John Kerry climb in the polls, but has it given him a bounce on Wall Street too?

link

[SemiCharmedQuark]

33. They said that it was pretty even in the second debate

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/09/snap.poll/index.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6191353/

[ProSense]

34. Those were the bogus snap polls

The respondents included 515 registered voters who watched the debate. Their political affiliations broke down as 38 percent Republican, 32 percent Democratic and 30 percent independent.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

35. Thanks for posting this. It got me looking through archives.

I guess I had forgotten that by and large, the media wasn't saying Bush won the debate (although their online polls were). They were saying that they were about equal on the second and third and that Kerry won the first.